stella core

[harry]

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050813.html
quote "A supernova explosion, a massive star's inevitable and spectacular demise, blasts back into space debris enriched in the heavy elements forged in its stellar core"
Response to the above Pic of the day:
The core of the sun in my opinion does not have any light or heavy elements. The Elements formed are outside the Core. The core itself is of extreme density made from plasma. Normal elements could not form the extreme desity required to create the huge gravitational forces required to hold the star together and give it long life.

[Empeda2]

Yes, but there's a slight insufficient pressure inside the core of the sun to produce fusion reactions - we have to employ the uncertaintly principle and quantum tunnelling to explain that - so surely there is no where near enough density in the other layers to produce fusion reactions?

Also, these reactions would not only push outwards, they would push inwards as well making the star completely unstable.

[harry]

Hello empeda
Fusion reactions cannot occur within the core.
The atomic structure of the atoms are not formed as we know them.
The heat from the core to the surface takes over a million years. I will get the facts on this if you want.
But! i could be wrong we are just at the start of the new generation of information.

Keep cool.

[Empeda2]

Why can't fusion reactions happen in the core?

Also, are you saying that 'normal' matter cannot condense enough to produce the gravity required to hold even a small star like our sun together - what are you proposing that compact objects such as neutron stars are composed of?

It's all very interesting...

[harry]

Hello Empeda
Think about it, normal matter is unable to be condensed billions of times, smile it could be millions. The only way for the extreme density to be reached is by the normal atomic structure ripped away by the extreme temperature and gravitational electromagnetic forces breaking atoms down to photons than this being compressed.
Once the proton(Hydrogen) is realeased from the core fusion of hydrogen and hydrogen to produce helium releases the secondary energy that the sun shows as hydrogen bombs.
Other star systems have the fusion of helium to carbon.

[Empeda2]

I see what you're saying, but my point is that a neutron star is extremely dense - much denser than the core of our sun, but these are made of 'normal' matter - neutrons, so why would the core of the sun, which is less dense than a neutron star, required a greater pressure?

[harry]

The Core of any star in my opinion is the same.
External to the core depending if the star has relased its shell will have neutrons or protons. This we pick up because of the light it releases. It will take me sometime to explain all.
If you can look up the formation and transformation of a stars life cycle you will find more knowldge that you need.

A neutron star has little external plasma compared to our sun.
When our sun releases its outer skin from the core it will aslo show a very high density core.
The core is extremely important for long life.
You will come across stars that only have a few million years and than they go booooom. This is because the core in my opionion is small or very low density.
Each time the star shreads its skin the core gets smaller.
Is this information new to you.

[Empeda2]

It is... With all that in mind what are your thoughts on the type 1a supernovae that are thought to produce neutron stars? i.e. current theory suggests that type 1a supernovae are when a white dwarf accretes enough mass to overcome the electron degneracy pressure, and forces the star onto the next stage - the neutron degeneracy - how would this fit in to your theory?

[harry]

Hi

A neutron star is star that has recently ejected its outer skin. Not only that it is the step towards being a black hole. If it collects enough matter critcal to achieving the event horizon than it will be on its ways. There are many black holes found in our galaxy.

The magic is this:
When a star explodes it tends to release its own heavy metals and destroy its planets and nearby star bodies. All these heavy metals are collected by nearby stars and some of these stars are already at the breaking point of ejected their outer skin. That extra straw as so to speak causes and activates the sun to eject the outer skin. Just like a pressure cooker.

So a neutron Star: Its core is quite similar to any other star. The transfer of matter to electromagnetic radiation and than compacted is the key process. The reverse is when electromagnetic radiation is tranformed into protons and neutrons is just as an important key.

[Empeda2]

But my question was how does the type 1a supernova theory fit into all that?
And how would a neutron star - itself so compressed that it has overcome electron degeneracy - have a core?

Also, how would this theory explain the difference say, between a white dwarf and a neutron star?

Just probing, as always......

[harry]

Hello Empeda

Tell me what do you know about 1a supernova and electron degeneracy?
So that we can talk on the same wavelength.

As for white dwarfs and neutron stars.
The core sizes are quite different.
Dwarf star being small has gone through its life span possibly started of as a much larger star. Every time it sheds it shell it is left with a smaller core until the core is too small and dies off or sucked into another.
Neutron Star with its larger core has the ability to attract other stars to it and even grow towards becoming a blackhole.

Stay Cool

[Empeda2]

The theory goes that a white dwarf is condense as far as electron degeneracy will allow it (i.e. every enrgy level is taken and it cannot compress further). However, if the white dwarf gains mass and goes over ~1.4 solar masses (the chandrashjdwhat'sit limit) then there is enough gravition to overcome this, and the electron are forced into the protons to produce neutrons. These then contract until they have filled every possible energy level (i.e neutron degneracy). This produces a type 1a SN.

The part I don't understand is that if a neutron star has reached the neutron deeneracy pressure, where every energy level is taken, the only possibility in my head for a denser core is a black hole - who's event horizon would engulf the star anyway...

[harry]

Hello Mr Empeda2

I would agree with you: and what you say is logical.

What if the atomic structure goes one step further protons and neutrons broken down again to the basic particals. This would allow the compaction to be millions of times that of a normal atome. While the proton and neutron remain intact it would prevent the compaction.

What do you think? or what does anybody else think?

[Empeda2]

Hi harry,

I think the problem there would be that it would be very unstable. Protons and neutrons are three-quark particles, individual quarks I believe don't exist for any feasible length of time.

You get 2-quark particles (the Pis or Ks?? - Can't really remember!) but are no where near as stable either I believe.

Any particle guys out there verify that?

[makc]

You get 2-quark particles (the Pis or Ks?? - Can't really remember!) but are no where near as stable either I believe.

These particles are called mesons. There is no really explanation why there is no 1-quark particles out there; our current theory was "hand-crafted" to accomodate that fact.

[Empeda2]

Nice one makc - it was Pion and Kaons I was thinking of!

[Aqua]

In an electro dynamic universe.. supernovae are an expression of interdimensional structures colliding - string generated vortices. As the energy within those vortices generate gravity and slow below light speed, that energy is transformed into radiation and matter.

The massive stars seen exploding are the precursors of that exchange and their prodigious growth the result of aperature, not gravity.

Hans wuz right!

[harry]

Hello To all

Markc you have hits the nail on the head.

Your link will explain to all.
It is what I have been trying to expalain. What happens in a blackhole
Matter to electromagnetic radiation than compacted to an extreme hig density plasma plasm millions of times that of normal matter.
Searching through Markc link:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... on.html#c1
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... on.html#c3
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... id.html#c2
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... ag.html#c1
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... rk.html#c6
That will do for elementary info.

Again thank you markc

[Empeda2]

Still doesn't explain the Neutron star problem though.

[craterchains]

This may be of interest?

Click Here News Item from Yahoo

[harry]

Hello

What is interdimensional?

Neutron star Problem? Please expalin, I just got up, half asleep.

Have to get these spark plugs activated.


Stay Cool

[Empeda2]

The theory goes that a white dwarf is condense as far as electron degeneracy will allow it (i.e. every enrgy level is taken and it cannot compress further). However, if the white dwarf gains mass and goes over ~1.4 solar masses (the chandrashjdwhat'sit limit) then there is enough gravition to overcome this, and the electron are forced into the protons to produce neutrons. These then contract until they have filled every possible energy level (i.e neutron degneracy). This produces a type 1a SN.

The part I don't understand is that if a neutron star has reached the neutron deeneracy pressure, where every energy level is taken, the only possibility in my head for a denser core is a black hole - who's event horizon would engulf the star anyway...

The problem with neutron stars/white dwarfs having a core.

[Aqua]

Here's an interesting addy: http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0512/03blackhole/

This article chats up findings from the Spitzer Space Telescope concerning black holes.

It appears that matter and energy are streaming OUT of the vicinity of a galactic sized black hole. Accretion disk jets escaping from the event horizon? OR evidence that plasma is being CREATED in an interdimensional vortice? then injected into local space/time?

That plasma degrading into radiation and matter while escaping the event horizon? i.e. slows below light speed....

I wonder what Hans Alfvren would say?

[Aqua]

I like Dr. Oliver K. Manuel's theory that our star, Mr. Sol, is actually a novae remnant! His proof, if correct, is found in meteoric isotope ratios.

He champions the idea that Sol actually has an IRON core! The Hydrogen we see on the surface is a byproduct of degenerative neucleosysnthesis.

Also, the 'galactic tube' or 'chimney' our solar system is in, indicates that a nearby highly energetic event cleared much of the interstellar medium. An event such as the above.

If interested, take a closer look at: http://web.umr.edu/~om/

[harry]

Hello

If i was you I would study up on the workings of a sun and the Importants of Iron formed outside the core. For a start expand on the following.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... us.html#c1
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... yn.html#c1
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... n2.html#c1
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... in.html#c2
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960531.html

When Iron reaches a critical level either through production by the core or by debrie from space the sun ejects the outer skin containing the iron just like a pressure cooker. In many cases when a star explodes it gives an Iron inbalance to other stars causing a tricker for some stars to eject their outer skin making them look like a new star.