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APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:06 am
by APOD Robot
Supernova Remnant CTA 1
Explanation: There is a
quiet pulsar at the heart of CTA 1. The supernova remnant was
discovered as a source of emission
at radio wavelengths by astronomers in 1960 and since identified as the result of the death explosion of a massive star. But no radio pulses were detected from the expected pulsar, the
rotating neutron star remnant of the massive star's collapsed core. Seen about 10,000 years after the initial supernova explosion, the interstellar debris cloud is faint at optical wavelengths. CTA 1's visible wavelength emission from still expanding shock fronts is revealed in
this deep telescopic image, a frame that spans about 2 degrees across a starfield in the northern constellation of Cepheus. While no pulsar has since been found at radio wavelengths, in 2008 the
Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope detected pulsed emission from CTA 1, identifying the supernova remnant's rotating neutron star. The source has been recognized as the first in a growing class of pulsars that are quiet at radio wavelengths but
pulse in high-energy gamma-rays.
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 12:30 pm
by tmbruner@midco.net
Interesting illusion if you look at with your red/blue glasses.
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:41 pm
by Christian G.
Remnants, always remnants… When do we get to see an actual supernova?
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:47 pm
by Chris Peterson
Christian G. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:41 pm
Remnants, always remnants… When do we get to see an actual supernova?
Not sure what you mean. We see supernovas all the time. Do you mean nearby? The last one we saw in our own galaxy was in 1604. We're due.
_
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 3:28 pm
by Christian G.
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:47 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:41 pm
Remnants, always remnants… When do we get to see an actual supernova?
Not sure what you mean. We see supernovas all the time. Do you mean nearby? The last one we saw in our own galaxy was in 1604. We're due.
_
sn2023ixf_20230523.jpg
Yes, I meant seeing one nearby with our own eyes. Must see this once in my lifetime!
(I remember your two images "evolution of a supernova" in M101, that was fascinating)
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:16 pm
by AVAO
Christian G. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 3:28 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:47 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:41 pm
Remnants, always remnants… When do we get to see an actual supernova?
Not sure what you mean. We see supernovas all the time. Do you mean nearby? The last one we saw in our own galaxy was in 1604. We're due.
_
sn2023ixf_20230523.jpg
Yes, I meant seeing one nearby with our own eyes. Must see this once in my lifetime!
(I remember your two images "evolution of a supernova" in M101, that was fascinating)
Well, it depends a bit on your age and your telescope and primarily on how much patience and imagination you have ,-)
SN 1987A in the LMC is in our cosmic "neighborhood".
Credits Video NASA, ESA, Robert P. Kirshner (CfA, Moore Foundation), Peter Challis (CfA)
original data: NASA/ESA (HST) jac berne (flickr)
original data: NASA/ESA/CSA WEBBLE (HST/JWST) jac berne (flickr)
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:17 pm
by Ann
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:47 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:41 pm
Remnants, always remnants… When do we get to see an actual supernova?
Not sure what you mean. We see supernovas all the time. Do you mean nearby? The last one we saw in our own galaxy was in 1604. We're due.
_
Great picture, Chris!
Ann
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:20 pm
by Ann
AVAO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:16 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 3:28 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:47 pm
Not sure what you mean. We see supernovas all the time. Do you mean nearby? The last one we saw in our own galaxy was in 1604. We're due.
_
sn2023ixf_20230523.jpg
Yes, I meant seeing one nearby with our own eyes. Must see this once in my lifetime!
(I remember your two images "evolution of a supernova" in M101, that was fascinating)
Well, it depends a bit on your age and your telescope and primarily on how much patience and imagination you have ,-)
SN 1987A in the LMC is in our cosmic "neighborhood".
Credits Video NASA, ESA, Robert P. Kirshner (CfA, Moore Foundation), Peter Challis (CfA)
original data: NASA/ESA (HST) jac berne (flickr)
original data: NASA/ESA/CSA WEBBLE (HST/JWST) jac berne (flickr)
Great time lapse, Jac!
Ann
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:48 pm
by johnnydeep
I find it interesting that in the last link is this bit:
https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facili ... y%20minute
Fermi’s Large Area Telescope scans the entire sky every three hours and detects photons with energies ranging from 20 million to more than 300 billion times the energy of visible light. The instrument sees about one gamma ray every minute from CTA 1, enough for scientists to piece together the neutron star’s pulsing behavior, its rotation period, and the rate at which it is slowing down.
How is that possible? It sees only one gamma ray/photon every 60 seconds, yet is still able to deduce a very accurate 316.86 millisecond rotation rate?
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:13 pm
by AVAO
APOD Robot wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:06 am
Supernova Remnant CTA 1
Explanation: There is a
quiet pulsar at the heart of CTA 1. The supernova remnant was
discovered as a source of emission
at radio wavelengths by astronomers in 1960 and since identified as the result of the death explosion of a massive star. But no radio pulses were detected from the expected pulsar, the
rotating neutron star remnant of the massive star's collapsed core. Seen about 10,000 years after the initial supernova explosion, the interstellar debris cloud is faint at optical wavelengths. CTA 1's visible wavelength emission from still expanding shock fronts is revealed in
this deep telescopic image, a frame that spans about 2 degrees across a starfield in the northern constellation of Cepheus. While no pulsar has since been found at radio wavelengths, in 2008 the
Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope detected pulsed emission from CTA 1, identifying the supernova remnant's rotating neutron star. The source has been recognized as the first in a growing class of pulsars that are quiet at radio wavelengths but
pulse in high-energy gamma-rays.
Nice PLN inside.
...it almost looks like SNR and PLN are interacting...
https://www.astrobin.com/9fcwt7/
biggg:
https://www.astrobin.com/9fcwt7/#rB
Caldwell 2 (NGC 40) & CTA 1 SNR
Copyrights: Mathieu Guinot
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:30 pm
by Keyman
tmbruner@midco.net wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 12:30 pm
Interesting illusion if you look at with your red/blue glasses.
I did reach into my drawer to pull them out when I first saw this.
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2024 6:11 am
by Ann
AVAO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:13 pm
APOD Robot wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:06 am
Supernova Remnant CTA 1
Explanation: There is a
quiet pulsar at the heart of CTA 1. The supernova remnant was
discovered as a source of emission
at radio wavelengths by astronomers in 1960 and since identified as the result of the death explosion of a massive star. But no radio pulses were detected from the expected pulsar, the
rotating neutron star remnant of the massive star's collapsed core. Seen about 10,000 years after the initial supernova explosion, the interstellar debris cloud is faint at optical wavelengths. CTA 1's visible wavelength emission from still expanding shock fronts is revealed in
this deep telescopic image, a frame that spans about 2 degrees across a starfield in the northern constellation of Cepheus. While no pulsar has since been found at radio wavelengths, in 2008 the
Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope detected pulsed emission from CTA 1, identifying the supernova remnant's rotating neutron star. The source has been recognized as the first in a growing class of pulsars that are quiet at radio wavelengths but
pulse in high-energy gamma-rays.
Nice PLN inside.
...it almost looks like SNR and PLN are interacting...
https://www.astrobin.com/9fcwt7/
biggg:
https://www.astrobin.com/9fcwt7/#rB
Caldwell 2 (NGC 40) & CTA 1 SNR
Copyrights: Mathieu Guinot
Fascinating, Jac! I guess that the PLN and the SNR
could be interacting, if they are close enough to be "touching".
I can't find the PLN in the APOD, however. Where in the APOD is it?
As for the APOD, I keep seeing a creature in it. The very elongated blue feature at upper left would be its head, and the shape to its lower right would be its body.
So the question is not,
What do you see in the clouds, Charlie Brown?
The real question should be,
What do you see in CTA supernova remnant, Charlie Brown? A ducky or a horsie?
I would go for a horsie. But I don't know. Maybe possibly a dragon?
Ann
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:36 am
by AVAO
Ann wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2024 6:11 am
[...]
I can't find the PLN in the APOD, however. Where in the APOD is it?
[...]
Ann
ThanX Ann 4 your exciting comments!
Jac
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:41 am
by VictorBorun
johnnydeep wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:48 pm
I find it interesting that in the last link is this bit:
https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facili ... y%20minute
Fermi’s Large Area Telescope scans the entire sky every three hours and detects photons with energies ranging from 20 million to more than 300 billion times the energy of visible light. The instrument sees about one gamma ray every minute from CTA 1, enough for scientists to piece together the neutron star’s pulsing behavior, its rotation period, and the rate at which it is slowing down.
How is that possible? It sees only one gamma ray/photon every 60 seconds, yet is still able to deduce a very accurate 316.86 millisecond rotation rate?
if you happen to register a ɣ particle once in a minute, or once in 190 pulses, you need patience to accumulate those registrations.
How many depends on the precision of your registering time while radio-quiet pulsar is aiming the jet on you.
If your time error is zero, then just 3 registrations give you 2 time intervals, say of k periods and of m periods, and if you are in luck and k and m are coprime like 256 and 375, then you already know that the first of your intervals is 256 periods long, or 512, or 768, etc.
The jet may be not so narrow so the time you register a ɣ particle may leave some error for the time the pulsar was aiming at you. That's why just 3 ɣ particles will not do.
But enjoying a particle a minute you can accumulate many.
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 12:24 pm
by johnnydeep
VictorBorun wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:41 am
johnnydeep wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:48 pm
I find it interesting that in the last link is this bit:
https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facili ... y%20minute
Fermi’s Large Area Telescope scans the entire sky every three hours and detects photons with energies ranging from 20 million to more than 300 billion times the energy of visible light. The instrument sees about one gamma ray every minute from CTA 1, enough for scientists to piece together the neutron star’s pulsing behavior, its rotation period, and the rate at which it is slowing down.
How is that possible? It sees only one gamma ray/photon every 60 seconds, yet is still able to deduce a very accurate 316.86 millisecond rotation rate?
if you happen to register a ɣ particle once in a minute, or once in 190 pulses, you need patience to accumulate those registrations.
How many depends on the precision of your registering time while radio-quiet pulsar is aiming the jet on you.
If your time error is zero, then just 3 registrations give you 2 time intervals, say of k periods and of m periods, and if you are in luck and k and m are coprime like 256 and 375, then you already know that the first of your intervals is 256 periods long, or 512, or 768, etc.
The jet may be not so narrow so the time you register a ɣ particle may leave some error for the time the pulsar was aiming at you. That's why just 3 ɣ particles will not do.
But enjoying a particle a minute you can accumulate many.
Thanks. I don't totally follow your math, but I guess I can see that with a high enough accuracy of the measurements, along with enough measurements, even if they happen infrequently, you can deduce the still precise yet much smaller fundamental pulse interval underlying it.
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:43 pm
by Christian G.
AVAO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:16 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 3:28 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:47 pm
Not sure what you mean. We see supernovas all the time. Do you mean nearby? The last one we saw in our own galaxy was in 1604. We're due.
_
sn2023ixf_20230523.jpg
Yes, I meant seeing one nearby with our own eyes. Must see this once in my lifetime!
(I remember your two images "evolution of a supernova" in M101, that was fascinating)
Well, it depends a bit on your age and your telescope and primarily on how much patience and imagination you have ,-)
SN 1987A in the LMC is in our cosmic "neighborhood".
Credits Video NASA, ESA, Robert P. Kirshner (CfA, Moore Foundation), Peter Challis (CfA)
original data: NASA/ESA (HST) jac berne (flickr)
original data: NASA/ESA/CSA WEBBLE (HST/JWST) jac berne (flickr)
Still dwelling on the subject, it just occurred to me that the 1604 supernova was seen only four years before the invention of the telescope, and SN 1987A, three years before the launch of the Hubble Space Telescope! Are supernovae doing this on purpose? - Seriously, is this the best image we have of SN 1987A itself (not the following remnant)?
Anglo-Australian Observatory
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:59 pm
by Chris Peterson
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:43 pm
Still dwelling on the subject, it just occurred to me that the 1604 supernova was seen only four years before the invention of the telescope, and SN 1987A, three years before the launch of the Hubble Space Telescope! Are supernovae doing this on purpose? - Seriously, is this the best image we have of SN 1987A itself (not the following remnant)?
sn 1987a.jpg
Well, what would you expect an image of a supernova to look like? It's just a bright point source, no different from a star. The useful information comes from photometry... from measuring the integrated brightness of the pixels around the SN on a whole series of images taken over time.
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:35 pm
by Christian G.
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:59 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:43 pm
Still dwelling on the subject, it just occurred to me that the 1604 supernova was seen only four years before the invention of the telescope, and SN 1987A, three years before the launch of the Hubble Space Telescope! Are supernovae doing this on purpose? - Seriously, is this the best image we have of SN 1987A itself (not the following remnant)?
sn 1987a.jpg
Well, what would you expect an image of a supernova to look like? It's just a bright point source, no different from a star. The useful information comes from photometry... from measuring the integrated brightness of the pixels around the SN on a whole series of images taken over time.
Thanks for your scientific reply! But I was merely wondering if the image I have posted is the only one out there, I can’t seem to find any other, kind of surprising for a historical event! (of course there is the location issue, though)
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:46 pm
by Chris Peterson
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:35 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:59 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:43 pm
Still dwelling on the subject, it just occurred to me that the 1604 supernova was seen only four years before the invention of the telescope, and SN 1987A, three years before the launch of the Hubble Space Telescope! Are supernovae doing this on purpose? - Seriously, is this the best image we have of SN 1987A itself (not the following remnant)?
sn 1987a.jpg
Well, what would you expect an image of a supernova to look like? It's just a bright point source, no different from a star. The useful information comes from photometry... from measuring the integrated brightness of the pixels around the SN on a whole series of images taken over time.
Thanks for your scientific reply! But I was merely wondering if the image I have posted is the only one out there, I can’t seem to find any other, kind of surprising for a historical event! (of course there is the location issue, though)
Today there would be a huge number of amateur images of very high quality. But 1987 was before the CCD revolution, and there were vastly fewer amateur imagers... compounded with this being in the southern hemisphere, of course.
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 2:37 pm
by AVAO
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:35 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:59 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:43 pm
Still dwelling on the subject, it just occurred to me that the 1604 supernova was seen only four years before the invention of the telescope, and SN 1987A, three years before the launch of the Hubble Space Telescope! Are supernovae doing this on purpose? - Seriously, is this the best image we have of SN 1987A itself (not the following remnant)?
sn 1987a.jpg
Well, what would you expect an image of a supernova to look like? It's just a bright point source, no different from a star. The useful information comes from photometry... from measuring the integrated brightness of the pixels around the SN on a whole series of images taken over time.
Thanks for your scientific reply! But I was merely wondering if the image I have posted is the only one out there, I can’t seem to find any other, kind of surprising for a historical event! (of course there is the location issue, though)
Well - the outline was the same before the eruption - but every now and then you see a little more
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 3:14 pm
by Christian G.
AVAO wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 2:37 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:35 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:59 pm
Well, what would you expect an image of a supernova to look like? It's just a bright point source, no different from a star. The useful information comes from photometry... from measuring the integrated brightness of the pixels around the SN on a whole series of images taken over time.
Thanks for your scientific reply! But I was merely wondering if the image I have posted is the only one out there, I can’t seem to find any other, kind of surprising for a historical event! (of course there is the location issue, though)
Well - the outline was the same before the eruption - but every now and then you see a little more
Nice details, thanks (and that first mouse-over is pretty cool!)
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 3:45 pm
by AVAO
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 3:14 pm
AVAO wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 2:37 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:35 pm
Thanks for your scientific reply! But I was merely wondering if the image I have posted is the only one out there, I can’t seem to find any other, kind of surprising for a historical event! (of course there is the location issue, though)
Well - the outline was the same before the eruption - but every now and then you see a little more
Nice details, thanks (and that first mouse-over is pretty cool!)
Well, the image comparison simply shows very clearly that the two rings existed before. Many descriptions incorrectly imply that the rings are the result of the last supernova eruption.
Double rings are also found in nova and planetary nebulae such as NGC 1514
JWST is currently investigating this:
Original Data: NASA/ESA Processing: Yuval Harpaz (2023-09-27 NGC-1514-RINGS5-W, available filters: [ 770 1280 2550])
Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 5:13 pm
by Christian G.
AVAO wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 3:45 pm
Christian G. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 3:14 pm
AVAO wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 2:37 pm
Well - the outline was the same before the eruption - but every now and then you see a little more
Nice details, thanks (and that first mouse-over is pretty cool!)
Well, the image comparison simply shows very clearly that the two rings existed before. Many descriptions incorrectly imply that the rings are the result of the last supernova eruption.
Double rings are also found in nova and planetary nebulae such as NGC 1514
JWST is currently investigating this:
Original Data: NASA/ESA Processing: Yuval Harpaz (2023-09-27 NGC-1514-RINGS5-W, available filters: [ 770 1280 2550])
Yes, the supernova blast only made the rings glow more but it's the progenitor that created them thousands of years earlier, - and I find this beautiful! Following its destruction this star reconnected with its long lost outer layers and gave them a new life!
