Starship Asterisk*

Simple Wikipedia wrote:

The lunar south pole is a place on the Moon. It has a special interest because ice seems to be inside the craters.

As the moon orbits, it keeps one face always opposite the Earth. So when the Sun shines on it, it shines obliquely on the poles. Thus it never reaches the ice inside the craters, and the water stays frozen. The same pattern might apply to the Moon's northern pole, but that has fewer craters.

zendae wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 2:35 pm And there is another special interest involving the Moon's South Pole: it may harbor the coldest non-space areas in the entire Solar System. Almost everywhere, on every rocky planet and moon, there are places that receive no direct sunlight, but according to current data, all receive secondary light...except for some areas in craters in the South Pole of our Moon.

Perhaps, since science is an evolving gestalt, if you will, the data on this could change. But for now, our own Moon has the coldest temps in the entire Solar System.

Trypophobia refers to a strong fear of closely packed holes. People typically feel queasy, disgusted, and distressed when looking at surfaces that have small holes gathered close together.

The name trypophobia, first introduced on a web forum in 2005, combines the Greek words “trypa” (punching or drilling holes) and “phobia” (fear or aversion).

Ann wrote:Can you spot the red and blue spots on the Moon in the Galileo picture? No?

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:11 pm

zendae wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 2:35 pm And there is another special interest involving the Moon's South Pole: it may harbor the coldest non-space areas in the entire Solar System. Almost everywhere, on every rocky planet and moon, there are places that receive no direct sunlight, but according to current data, all receive secondary light...except for some areas in craters in the South Pole of our Moon.

Perhaps, since science is an evolving gestalt, if you will, the data on this could change. But for now, our own Moon has the coldest temps in the entire Solar System.

Really? Pluto? Sedna? Other dwarf planets? Very long long duration comets?

University of Hull wrote:

What is the coldest planet in the Solar System? – Sejal, aged seven, Bangalore, India

The planets in our Solar System are heated by the Sun. Here on Earth, we are about 100 million miles away from the Sun – a distance that provides the perfect temperature for life.

You might think, then, that the coldest planet in the Solar System would be Neptune, as it is the furthest away from the Sun’s warmth. Neptune is an incredible three billion miles away from the Sun.

However, the coldest planet is not Neptune, but Uranus – even though Uranus is a billion miles closer to the Sun than Neptune. Uranus holds the record for the coldest temperature ever measured in the Solar System: a very chilly -224℃. The temperature on Neptune is still very cold, of course – usually around -214℃ – but Uranus beats that.
...
You might also be surprised to learn that the closest planet to the Sun, Mercury, can also be extremely cold. While the side of Mercury facing the Sun is more than 400℃, the side facing away from the Sun is nearly -200℃.

Adda247 wrote:

The moon’s south pole experiences extreme temperatures due to its location.
Temperatures can drop to as low as -230 degrees Celsius (-382 degrees Fahrenheit) in shadowed regions.
Such frigid conditions are attributed to the prolonged absence of sunlight in certain areas.

Science.nasa.gov wrote:

On average, Pluto’s temperature is -387°F (-232°C), making it too cold to sustain life.

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:18 pm

Ann wrote:Can you spot the red and blue spots on the Moon in the Galileo picture? No?

I only see a few bluish spots. Where are the red one? (I assume the red swath near the top is an artifact.)

Ann wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:46 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:18 pm

Ann wrote:Can you spot the red and blue spots on the Moon in the Galileo picture? No?

I only see a few bluish spots. Where are the red one? (I assume the red swath near the top is an artifact.)

Really, you couldn't spot it? I only marked the two most obvious spots.

The Moon by Galileo.

---

The Moon by Galileo red blue annotated.png

The two most obvious red and blue spots on the Moon.

Compare with the APOD:

Vivid-looking red and blue spots on the Moon in the APOD.

---

But the colors of these two spots are so subtle that it is no wonder at all if you really, really, couldn't spot them.

Ann

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:13 pm Can you say "trypophobia"? From https://www.healthline.com/health/trypophobia:

Trypophobia refers to a strong fear of closely packed holes. People typically feel queasy, disgusted, and distressed when looking at surfaces that have small holes gathered close together.

The name trypophobia, first introduced on a web forum in 2005, combines the Greek words “trypa” (punching or drilling holes) and “phobia” (fear or aversion).

Cousin Ricky wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 7:26 pm I’d like to know the vertical exaggeration of this render. Apparently, I need to have an Instagram account to view details on the source image.

Tekija wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 8:01 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:13 pm Can you say "trypophobia"? From https://www.healthline.com/health/trypophobia:

Trypophobia refers to a strong fear of closely packed holes. People typically feel queasy, disgusted, and distressed when looking at surfaces that have small holes gathered close together.

The name trypophobia, first introduced on a web forum in 2005, combines the Greek words “trypa” (punching or drilling holes) and “phobia” (fear or aversion).

https://www.reddit.com/r/trypophobia/

Ann wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:32 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:11 pm

zendae wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 2:35 pm And there is another special interest involving the Moon's South Pole: it may harbor the coldest non-space areas in the entire Solar System. Almost everywhere, on every rocky planet and moon, there are places that receive no direct sunlight, but according to current data, all receive secondary light...except for some areas in craters in the South Pole of our Moon.

Perhaps, since science is an evolving gestalt, if you will, the data on this could change. But for now, our own Moon has the coldest temps in the entire Solar System.

Really? Pluto? Sedna? Other dwarf planets? Very long long duration comets?

"<iframe width="1389" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nPYEDuNmf0k" title="Sumo - Kinder | Galileo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>"

Okay, I asked Google.

University of Hull wrote:

What is the coldest planet in the Solar System? – Sejal, aged seven, Bangalore, India

The planets in our Solar System are heated by the Sun. Here on Earth, we are about 100 million miles away from the Sun – a distance that provides the perfect temperature for life.

You might think, then, that the coldest planet in the Solar System would be Neptune, as it is the furthest away from the Sun’s warmth. Neptune is an incredible three billion miles away from the Sun.

However, the coldest planet is not Neptune, but Uranus – even though Uranus is a billion miles closer to the Sun than Neptune. Uranus holds the record for the coldest temperature ever measured in the Solar System: a very chilly -224℃. The temperature on Neptune is still very cold, of course – usually around -214℃ – but Uranus beats that.
...
You might also be surprised to learn that the closest planet to the Sun, Mercury, can also be extremely cold. While the side of Mercury facing the Sun is more than 400℃, the side facing away from the Sun is nearly -200℃.

Well, there is nothing here about the temperature of the south pole of the Moon, so I asked Google specifically about that, and this is what it told me:

Adda247 wrote:

The moon’s south pole experiences extreme temperatures due to its location.
Temperatures can drop to as low as -230 degrees Celsius (-382 degrees Fahrenheit) in shadowed regions.
Such frigid conditions are attributed to the prolonged absence of sunlight in certain areas.

So that suggests that the south pole of the Moon is colder than Uranus or Neptune! But I don't believe that is true. There are probably places on Uranus or Neptune that can drop below 230^oC. And if not, then at least Pluto beats the south pole of the Moon when it comes to ultra-freezing temperatures:

Science.nasa.gov wrote:

On average, Pluto’s temperature is -387°F (-232°C), making it too cold to sustain life.

So Pluto might be the Ice Cold Champion of the Solar system! But I would guess that there are other Kuiper Belt objects that are still colder!

Ann

zendae wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 3:54 am

Ann wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:32 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:11 pm

Really? Pluto? Sedna? Other dwarf planets? Very long long duration comets?

"<iframe width="1389" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nPYEDuNmf0k" title="Sumo - Kinder | Galileo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>"

Okay, I asked Google.

University of Hull wrote:

What is the coldest planet in the Solar System? – Sejal, aged seven, Bangalore, India

The planets in our Solar System are heated by the Sun. Here on Earth, we are about 100 million miles away from the Sun – a distance that provides the perfect temperature for life.

You might think, then, that the coldest planet in the Solar System would be Neptune, as it is the furthest away from the Sun’s warmth. Neptune is an incredible three billion miles away from the Sun.

However, the coldest planet is not Neptune, but Uranus – even though Uranus is a billion miles closer to the Sun than Neptune. Uranus holds the record for the coldest temperature ever measured in the Solar System: a very chilly -224℃. The temperature on Neptune is still very cold, of course – usually around -214℃ – but Uranus beats that.
...
You might also be surprised to learn that the closest planet to the Sun, Mercury, can also be extremely cold. While the side of Mercury facing the Sun is more than 400℃, the side facing away from the Sun is nearly -200℃.

Well, there is nothing here about the temperature of the south pole of the Moon, so I asked Google specifically about that, and this is what it told me:

Adda247 wrote:

The moon’s south pole experiences extreme temperatures due to its location.
Temperatures can drop to as low as -230 degrees Celsius (-382 degrees Fahrenheit) in shadowed regions.
Such frigid conditions are attributed to the prolonged absence of sunlight in certain areas.

So that suggests that the south pole of the Moon is colder than Uranus or Neptune! But I don't believe that is true. There are probably places on Uranus or Neptune that can drop below 230^oC. And if not, then at least Pluto beats the south pole of the Moon when it comes to ultra-freezing temperatures:

Science.nasa.gov wrote:

On average, Pluto’s temperature is -387°F (-232°C), making it too cold to sustain life.

So Pluto might be the Ice Cold Champion of the Solar system! But I would guess that there are other Kuiper Belt objects that are still colder!

Ann

Nope.
"Observed temperatures range from a blistering 127 C (260 F) in equatorial sunlight down to a frosty -238 C (-397 F) in the permanently shadowed regions of the poles. "

https://www.thespaceresource.com/news/2 ... ental-moon

Ann wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 4:09 am

zendae wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 3:54 am

Ann wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:32 pm
Okay, I asked Google.



Well, there is nothing here about the temperature of the south pole of the Moon, so I asked Google specifically about that, and this is what it told me:



So that suggests that the south pole of the Moon is colder than Uranus or Neptune! But I don't believe that is true. There are probably places on Uranus or Neptune that can drop below 230^oC. And if not, then at least Pluto beats the south pole of the Moon when it comes to ultra-freezing temperatures:



So Pluto might be the Ice Cold Champion of the Solar system! But I would guess that there are other Kuiper Belt objects that are still colder!

Ann

Nope.
"Observed temperatures range from a blistering 127 C (260 F) in equatorial sunlight down to a frosty -238 C (-397 F) in the permanently shadowed regions of the poles. "

https://www.thespaceresource.com/news/2 ... ental-moon

Okay!

But bear in mind that the extreme proximity of the Earth's own moon means that we have great opportunities to observe it. If the temperature of very small spots on the Moon is indeed -238 C, then we are indeed able to confirm it.

When it comes to objects in the Kuiper Belt, we have either few or no chances to actually observe either their mean temperatures or their very coldest spots.

Ann

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:05 pm For Kuiper Belt object, though, we don't really need to measure them. We know that they are not tidally locked to the Sun, and therefore have their entire surfaces exposed to sunlight as they rotate. And even at that distance, that's a lot of heating when we're talking about objects sitting at just a few tens of kelvins. So given some reasonable assumptions about the range of emissivity for space weathered bodies (which we have observational evidence to support), reasonable estimates of temperature can be calculated.

VictorBorun wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:30 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:05 pm For Kuiper Belt object, though, we don't really need to measure them. We know that they are not tidally locked to the Sun, and therefore have their entire surfaces exposed to sunlight as they rotate. And even at that distance, that's a lot of heating when we're talking about objects sitting at just a few tens of kelvins. So given some reasonable assumptions about the range of emissivity for space weathered bodies (which we have observational evidence to support), reasonable estimates of temperature can be calculated.

but what if some Kuiper asteroids are slow enough rotating to cool their night's side and large enough to isolate it thermally from their day's side?

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:05 pm

Ann wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 4:09 am

zendae wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 3:54 am

Nope.
"Observed temperatures range from a blistering 127 C (260 F) in equatorial sunlight down to a frosty -238 C (-397 F) in the permanently shadowed regions of the poles. "

https://www.thespaceresource.com/news/2 ... ental-moon

Okay!

But bear in mind that the extreme proximity of the Earth's own moon means that we have great opportunities to observe it. If the temperature of very small spots on the Moon is indeed -238 C, then we are indeed able to confirm it.

When it comes to objects in the Kuiper Belt, we have either few or no chances to actually observe either their mean temperatures or their very coldest spots.

Ann

For Kuiper Belt object, though, we don't really need to measure them. We know that they are not tidally locked to the Sun, and therefore have their entire surfaces exposed to sunlight as they rotate. And even at that distance, that's a lot of heating when we're talking about objects sitting at just a few tens of kelvins. So given some reasonable assumptions about the range of emissivity for space weathered bodies (which we have observational evidence to support), reasonable estimates of temperature can be calculated.

Ann wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 3:13 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:05 pm

Ann wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 4:09 am

Okay!

But bear in mind that the extreme proximity of the Earth's own moon means that we have great opportunities to observe it. If the temperature of very small spots on the Moon is indeed -238 C, then we are indeed able to confirm it.

When it comes to objects in the Kuiper Belt, we have either few or no chances to actually observe either their mean temperatures or their very coldest spots.

Ann

For Kuiper Belt object, though, we don't really need to measure them. We know that they are not tidally locked to the Sun, and therefore have their entire surfaces exposed to sunlight as they rotate. And even at that distance, that's a lot of heating when we're talking about objects sitting at just a few tens of kelvins. So given some reasonable assumptions about the range of emissivity for space weathered bodies (which we have observational evidence to support), reasonable estimates of temperature can be calculated.

Can't Pluto, like the Moon, have spots that are never exposed to the Sun? Or that doesn't happen, because the orbit of Pluto is not in the same plane as the other planets? What about any other moons in the Solar system?

Ann

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 3:19 pm
I don't know about Pluto. All the other moons, though, are tidally locked to their planets, so one side is heated from the planet, and other from the Sun as they rotate/orbit.

Of course, the cold spots on the Moon are created by relatively shallow craters and specifics of the Moon's orientation. If we allow for deeper holes, it's easier never to see the Sun. So it's easy to believe that there are bodies out there with deep sinkholes or old vents that are very, very cold at their bases.