Explanation: Could you survive a jump off the tallest cliff in the Solar System? Quite possibly. Verona Rupes on Uranus' moon Miranda is estimated to be 20 kilometers deep -- ten times the depth of the Earth's Grand Canyon. Given Miranda's low gravity, it would take about 12 minutes for a thrill-seeking adventurer to fall from the top, reaching the bottom at the speed of a racecar -- about 200 kilometers per hour. Even so, the fall might be survivable given proper airbag protection. The featured image of Verona Rupes was captured by the passing Voyager 2 robotic spacecraft in 1986. How the giant cliff was created remains unknown, but is possibly related to a large impact or tectonic surface motion.
The name "Miranda" for the moon hosting this tall cliff is surely a misnomer. Miranda has been stamped with a huge letter "L" for everyone to see, so clearly its name should be "Lucinda" or something!
Can anyone say where in this overview of Miranda (or Lucinda) we can see the tall cliff that is the subject of this APOD?
Ann
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:46 am
by MadCat-75
Hi,
there is a scene in the short film "Wanderers" by Erik Wernquist, where tourists jump of this cliff.
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:12 pm
by De58te
Ann wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:05 am
Can anyone say where in this overview of Miranda (or Lucinda) we can see the tall cliff that is the subject of this APOD?
Ann
My guess would be the dark shadow fingers seen at the south rim about 5:30 clock face. Although today's APOD has rotated the picture to about 6:30.
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:54 pm
by Ann
Thanks, WWW and De58te!
Ann
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:38 pm
by orin stepanek
Looks a mess! Some of the area looks like frozen molten rock; and then the cliff looks Like it was lifted and sheared out of an upheaval of the ground! looking at Ann's insert of Miranda makes like the whole moon went through a tortuous past!
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:46 pm
by Chris Peterson
orin stepanek wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:38 pm
Looks a mess! Some of the area looks like frozen molten rock; and then the cliff looks Like it was lifted and sheared out of an upheaval of the ground! looking at Ann's insert of Miranda makes like the whole moon went through a tortuous past! :mrgreen:
It's probably all water ice, not rock. But at those temperatures, there is little difference in terms of geomorphology.
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
orin stepanek wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:38 pm
Looks a mess! Some of the area looks like frozen molten rock; and then the cliff looks Like it was lifted and sheared out of an upheaval of the ground! looking at Ann's insert of Miranda makes like the whole moon went through a tortuous past!
It's probably all water ice, not rock. But at those temperatures, there is little difference in terms of geomorphology.
In simpler English:
At those temperatures. water ice is as hard as rock.
Ann
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
orin stepanek wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:38 pm
Looks a mess! Some of the area looks like frozen molten rock; and then the cliff looks Like it was lifted and sheared out of an upheaval of the ground! looking at Ann's insert of Miranda makes like the whole moon went through a tortuous past!
It's probably all water ice, not rock. But at those temperatures, there is little difference in terms of geomorphology.
Ah! Yes; that makes sense! Thanks Chris!
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
orin stepanek wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:38 pm
Looks a mess! Some of the area looks like frozen molten rock; and then the cliff looks Like it was lifted and sheared out of an upheaval of the ground! looking at Ann's insert of Miranda makes like the whole moon went through a tortuous past! :mrgreen:
It's probably all water ice, not rock. But at those temperatures, there is little difference in terms of geomorphology.
In simpler English:
At those temperatures. water ice is as hard as rock.
Sort of, but not as descriptive. There are other materials that are as "hard as rock" that don't behave structurally like rock in a geological context. Which is actually why I put it the way I did... very cold water ice and rock will form similar structures under the influence of geological forces.
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:46 pm
It's probably all water ice, not rock. But at those temperatures, there is little difference in terms of geomorphology.
In simpler English: At those temperatures. water ice is as hard as rock.
Sort of, but not as descriptive. There are other materials that are as "hard as rock" that don't behave structurally like rock in a geological context. Which is actually why I put it the way I did... very cold water ice and rock will form similar structures under the influence of geological forces.
The average density of granite is 2.7 g/cm3,
its compressive strength usually lies above 200 MPa
..................................................................
The average density of ice is 0.92 g/cm3,
its compressive strength is ~3 MPa
The average density of Miranda is 1.2 g/cm3,
its surface gravity is 0.008 g
..................................................................
Ergo: An ice mountain on Miranda is stronger than a granite mountain on Earth.
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
In simpler English: At those temperatures. water ice is as hard as rock.
Sort of, but not as descriptive. There are other materials that are as "hard as rock" that don't behave structurally like rock in a geological context. Which is actually why I put it the way I did... very cold water ice and rock will form similar structures under the influence of geological forces.
The average density of granite is 2.7 g/cm3,
its compressive strength usually lies above 200 MPa
..................................................................
The average density of ice is 0.92 g/cm3,
its compressive strength is ~3 MPa
The average density of Miranda is 1.2 g/cm3,
its surface gravity is 0.008 g
..................................................................
Ergo: An ice mountain on Miranda is stronger than a granite mountain on Earth.
Except that understanding local geology in terms of broadly average characteristics puts one on thin ice. And maybe not the hardest of ice.
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:11 pm
There are other materials that are as "hard as rock" that don't behave structurally like rock in a geological context. Which is actually why I put it the way I did... very cold water ice and rock will form similar structures under the influence of geological forces.
The average density of granite is 2.7 g/cm3,
its compressive strength usually lies above 200 MPa
..................................................................
The average density of ice is 0.92 g/cm3,
its compressive strength is ~3 MPa
The average density of Miranda is 1.2 g/cm3,
its surface gravity is 0.008 g
..................................................................
Ergo: An ice mountain on Miranda is stronger than a granite mountain on Earth.
Except that understanding local geology in terms of broadly average characteristics puts one on thin ice. And maybe not the hardest of ice.
The raw numbers can't just be taken for granite, however:
200 MPa / (2,700 kg/m3 x 9.81 m/s2) = ~7.55 km
vs. 1.34 km ESE headwall of the Great Trango Tower
3 MPa / (920 kg/m3 x 0.079 m/s2) = ~41.3 km
vs. ~20 km Verona Rupes.
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
In simpler English: At those temperatures. water ice is as hard as rock.
Sort of, but not as descriptive. There are other materials that are as "hard as rock" that don't behave structurally like rock in a geological context. Which is actually why I put it the way I did... very cold water ice and rock will form similar structures under the influence of geological forces.
The average density of granite is 2.7 g/cm3,
its compressive strength usually lies above 200 MPa
..................................................................
The average density of ice is 0.92 g/cm3,
its compressive strength is ~3 MPa
The average density of Miranda is 1.2 g/cm3,
its surface gravity is 0.008 g
..................................................................
Ergo: An ice mountain on Miranda is stronger than a granite mountain on Earth.
Don't you need to account for the temperature of the ice? The colder it is, the stronger, no? And on Miranda, it's pretty cold.
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
200 MPa / (2,700 kg/m3 x 9.81 m/s2) = ~7.55 km
vs. 1.34 km ESE headwall of the Great Trango Tower
60 MPa / (920 kg/m3 x 0.079 m/s2) = ~825 km
vs. ~20 km Verona Rupes.
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:52 pm
by Guest
I have read in other sources that Verona Rupes is variably 12 km deep, 10 km, and even less than 10 km deep. This is the first time I've seen Verona Rupes measured at 20 km deep. Who determines the depth and what tools (mathematical or otherwise) are used to render these varying measurements?
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:59 pm
by SeedsofEarfth
The gravity potential at the top of Verona Rupes is estimated to be roughly .079 meters per second. Since you say a cliff diver would reach the speed of a race car by the time he hit bottom, how fast is that, exactly? I assume the physics for gravity and acceleration are involved in this assumption, right?
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:10 pm
by SeedsofEarfth
The gravity potential at the top of Verona Rupes is estimated to be roughly .079 meters per second. Since you say a cliff diver would reach the speed of a race car by the time he hit bottom, how fast is that, exactly? I assume the physics for gravity and acceleration are involved in this assumption, right?
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:10 pm
by SeedsofEarfth
The gravity potential at the top of Verona Rupes is estimated to be roughly .079 meters per second. Since you say a cliff diver would reach the speed of a race car by the time he hit bottom, how fast is that, exactly? I assume the physics for gravity and acceleration are involved in this assumption, right?
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:17 pm
by Chris Peterson
SeedsofEarfth wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:59 pm
The gravity potential at the top of Verona Rupes is estimated to be roughly .079 meters per second. Since you say a cliff diver would reach the speed of a race car by the time he hit bottom, how fast is that, exactly? I assume the physics for gravity and acceleration are involved in this assumption, right?
v = sqrt(2gd) = 56.2 m/s (126 mph)
Re: APOD: Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in... (2020 Nov 29)
SeedsofEarfth wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:59 pm
The gravity potential at the top of Verona Rupes is estimated to be roughly .079 meters per second. Since you say a cliff diver would reach the speed of a race car by the time he hit bottom, how fast is that, exactly? I assume the physics for gravity and acceleration are involved in this assumption, right?
Verona Rupes: Tallest Known Cliff in the Solar System
