Hi, I was wondering if there are any goals/ideas for exploring outside of our solar system following voyager 1?
Re: Interstellar travel
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:20 pm
by neufer
dmiura19 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:54 pm
Hi, I was wondering if there are any goals/ideas for exploring outside of our solar system following voyager 1?
<<This graphic shows the relative positions of NASA’s most distant spacecraft in early 2011, looking at the solar system from the side. Voyager 1 is the most distant spacecraft, about 17.5 billion kilometers (10.9 billion miles) away from the sun at a northward angle. Pioneer 10, the next most distant, is about 15.4 billion kilometers (9.6 billion miles) away from the sun on the opposite side of the solar system. Voyager 2 is about 14.2 billion kilometers (8.8 billion miles) away from the sun on a southward trajectory, on the same side of the solar system as Voyager 1. Pioneer 11 is about 12.4 billion kilometers (7.8 billion miles) away from the sun. New Horizons is about 3 billion kilometers (2 billion miles) away from the sun, on its way to Pluto.>>
Also check out the Centauri Dreams website. Their mission is to imagine what it might take to turn the dream of interstellar missions into reality. The weblog's author does a good job in covering all manner of space flight news.
Bruce
Re: Interstellar travel
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:10 am
by KayBur
I think it will be possible in the future. Dozens of companies are now well advanced in space development. The companies are actively engaged in the development of spacecraft. Recently I got acquainted with the design of the third stage from Skyrora. It seems to me that the future belongs to such companies. If you are also interested, you can take a look at the company's developments here https://www.skyrora.com/third-stage it is interesting and informative, and it also gives hope that in the future we will be able to at least travel on the Moon. Of course, humanity is far from such magical journeys as in the movie "Passengers". But in a dream, an idea is born, and in an idea, there are developments of all kinds of unimaginable gizmos.
Re: Interstellar travel
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:43 pm
by Chris Peterson
KayBur wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:10 am
I think it will be possible in the future. Dozens of companies are now well advanced in space development. The companies are actively engaged in the development of spacecraft. Recently I got acquainted with the design of the third stage from Skyrora. It seems to me that the future belongs to such companies. If you are also interested, you can take a look at the company's developments here https://www.skyrora.com/third-stage it is interesting and informative, and it also gives hope that in the future we will be able to at least travel on the Moon. Of course, humanity is far from such magical journeys as in the movie "Passengers". But in a dream, an idea is born, and in an idea, there are developments of all kinds of unimaginable gizmos.
Interstellar travel will never be undertaken by humans. Maybe by robots, but only if they're all that is left of us, or we've changed ourselves to the point that we are willing and able to take on projects that last for thousands of years.
Re: Interstellar travel
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:38 pm
by neufer
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:43 pm
Interstellar travel will never be undertaken by humans. Maybe by robots, but only if they're all that is left of us, or we've changed ourselves to the point that we are willing and able to take on projects that last for thousands of years.
No doubt.
Nevertheless, seven decades of xenophobic rally broadcasts from 1936 to 2016 are now out there among the stars.
I wouldn't be surprised if ET is already trying to figure out some way to put up a big beautiful wall or cage to keep us all in.
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:43 pm
Interstellar travel will never be undertaken by humans. Maybe by robots, but only if they're all that is left of us, or we've changed ourselves to the point that we are willing and able to take on projects that last for thousands of years.
No doubt.
I doubt. Pardon me, but isn't this pessimism toward interstellar travel by humans biased on a supposition that human frailties will remain such as they are for the indefinite future? What if humanity is somehow able to overcome its existential threats as well as the aging problem that so limit our lifespans? Just a more hopeful take ..., offered as food for thought.
Nevertheless, seven decades of xenophobic rally broadcasts from 1936 to 2016 are now out there among the stars.
I wouldn't be surprised if ET is already trying to figure out some way to put up a big beautiful wall or cage to keep us all in.
Vast interstellar distance has provided a natural cage. But we are still infants who haven't yet learned how to crawl out of our crib.
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:43 pm
Interstellar travel will never be undertaken by humans. Maybe by robots, but only if they're all that is left of us, or we've changed ourselves to the point that we are willing and able to take on projects that last for thousands of years.
No doubt.
I doubt. Pardon me, but isn't this pessimism toward interstellar travel by humans biased on a supposition that human frailties will remain such as they are for the indefinite future? What if humanity is somehow able to overcome its existential threats as well as the aging problem that so limit our lifespans? Just a more hopeful take ..., offered as food for thought.
We ONLY went to the Moon in the first place due to a perceived VISIBLE existential threat: Communism.
(Though we aren't even capable of dealing with INVISIBLE existential threats: E.g. Pandemics & Global Warming.)
neufer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:38 pm
Nevertheless, seven decades of xenophobic rally broadcasts from 1936 to 2016 are now out there among the stars.
I wouldn't be surprised if ET is already trying to figure out some way to put up a big beautiful wall or cage to keep us all in.
Vast interstellar distance has provided a natural cage.
But we are still infants who haven't yet learned how to crawl out of our crib.
Rod Rosenstein advised there was no age limit on child separations
<<One US attorney, John Bash of the western district of Texas, said he had declined to prosecute several cases that had been referred to him by Customs and Border Protection (CBP) that involved children under the age of five. In response, Rosenstein told the US attorneys that they could not decline to prosecute cases based on the age of the children who would be separated from their parents because there was “no categorical exemption” under the order. The comments were met with shock by some of the US attorneys because there was concern that children who were under the age of five would not know their own names or their parents’ names and that it posed a risk of children potentially getting lost in the system.>>
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:43 pm
Interstellar travel will never be undertaken by humans. Maybe by robots, but only if they're all that is left of us, or we've changed ourselves to the point that we are willing and able to take on projects that last for thousands of years.
No doubt.
I doubt. Pardon me, but isn't this pessimism toward interstellar travel by humans biased on a supposition that human frailties will remain such as they are for the indefinite future? What if humanity is somehow able to overcome its existential threats as well as the aging problem that so limit our lifespans? Just a more hopeful take ..., offered as food for thought.
I don't expect humans to be around, or not around as a highly technological civilization, much longer.
neufer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:38 pm
No doubt.
I doubt. Pardon me, but isn't this pessimism toward interstellar travel by humans biased on a supposition that human frailties will remain such as they are for the indefinite future? What if humanity is somehow able to overcome its existential threats as well as the aging problem that so limit our lifespans? Just a more hopeful take ..., offered as food for thought.
I don't expect humans to be around, or not around as a highly technological civilization, much longer.
We are in agreement about the impending collapse of this current uncivil global civilization. I'm confident however that there will be survivors.
I doubt. Pardon me, but isn't this pessimism toward interstellar travel by humans biased on a supposition that human frailties will remain such as they are for the indefinite future? What if humanity is somehow able to overcome its existential threats as well as the aging problem that so limit our lifespans? Just a more hopeful take ..., offered as food for thought.
I don't expect humans to be around, or not around as a highly technological civilization, much longer.
We are in agreement about the impending collapse of this current uncivil global civilization. I'm confident however that there will be survivors.
Bruce, short term pessimist, long term optimist.
It would take an awful lot to kill of human beings. We are a very resilient species. But it wouldn't take much at all to keep our culture from advancing to the point that we would have lifetimes of thousands of years and the social stability to manage global projects on such time scales.
As the Earth travels around the Milky Way, it is engaged in a type of interstellar travel. The last time we were at this location, dinosaurs were coming of age and the continents were gathered together. The next time we rotate around, our Earth will again look much different. If we are around when Andromeda collides with the Milky Way, we will see a completely different sky and, I suspect, we will have visited many different star neighborhoods enumerable times.
Re: Interstellar travel
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:27 pm
by Forrest White
dmiura19 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:54 pm
Hi, I was wondering if there are any goals/ideas for exploring outside of our solar system following voyager 1?
Today the duration of Voyager-2's flight is more than 43 years, the device is located at a distance of 125.65 astronomical units from the Earth and is considered the second man-made object in terms of distance from our planet. It has already left the heliosphere, but has not gone beyond the solar system, the border of which is located beyond the outer edge of the Oort Cloud.
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:43 pm
Interstellar travel will never be undertaken by humans. Maybe by robots, but only if they're all that is left of us, or we've changed ourselves to the point that we are willing and able to take on projects that last for thousands of years.
No doubt.
I doubt. Pardon me, but isn't this pessimism toward interstellar travel by humans biased on a supposition that human frailties will remain such as they are for the indefinite future? What if humanity is somehow able to overcome its existential threats as well as the aging problem that so limit our lifespans? Just a more hopeful take ..., offered as food for thought.
Nevertheless, seven decades of xenophobic rally broadcasts from 1936 to 2016 are now out there among the stars.
I wouldn't be surprised if ET is already trying to figure out some way to put up a big beautiful wall or cage to keep us all in.
Vast interstellar distance has provided a natural cage. But we are still infants who haven't yet learned how to crawl out of our crib.
At the moment, I see the most probable two scenarios for overcoming interstellar distances.
First: an interstellar ship, organized as a place to live. That is, sending a "set of people" to the mission, who will live for several generations, pass on their knowledge and mission, and completely new people will arrive at the final point.
Second: Development of cryogenic technologies to a level where we can freeze specially trained people for a long time without risking their health.
But an increase in life expectancy to several centuries - millennia seems less likely to me. Although, in ancient times, 35-year-olds were already considered elders. And many did not manage to live up to this age.
neufer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:38 pm
No doubt.
I doubt. Pardon me, but isn't this pessimism toward interstellar travel by humans biased on a supposition that human frailties will remain such as they are for the indefinite future? What if humanity is somehow able to overcome its existential threats as well as the aging problem that so limit our lifespans? Just a more hopeful take ..., offered as food for thought.
Nevertheless, seven decades of xenophobic rally broadcasts from 1936 to 2016 are now out there among the stars.
I wouldn't be surprised if ET is already trying to figure out some way to put up a big beautiful wall or cage to keep us all in.
Vast interstellar distance has provided a natural cage. But we are still infants who haven't yet learned how to crawl out of our crib.
At the moment, I see the most probable two scenarios for overcoming interstellar distances.
First: an interstellar ship, organized as a place to live. That is, sending a "set of people" to the mission, who will live for several generations, pass on their knowledge and mission, and completely new people will arrive at the final point.
Second: Development of cryogenic technologies to a level where we can freeze specially trained people for a long time without risking their health.
But an increase in life expectancy to several centuries - millennia seems less likely to me. Although, in ancient times, 35-year-olds were already considered elders. And many did not manage to live up to this age.
This ignores the "why?" of it. I don't see humans wanting to do something like this. And I don't see our species being around long enough to reach the point where we have that interest.
TommyJ wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:28 am
At the moment, I see the most probable two scenarios for overcoming interstellar distances.
First: an interstellar ship, organized as a place to live. That is, sending a "set of people" to the mission, who will live for several generations, pass on their knowledge and mission, and completely new people will arrive at the final point.
Second: Development of cryogenic technologies to a level where we can freeze specially trained people for a long time without risking their health.
But an increase in life expectancy to several centuries - millennia seems less likely to me. Although, in ancient times, 35-year-olds were already considered elders. And many did not manage to live up to this age.
This ignores the "why?" of it. I don't see humans wanting to do something like this. And I don't see our species being around long enough to reach the point where we have that interest.
Distance wise:
Proxima Centauri is to the moon
as the moon is to 3.68 meters.
(roughly a factor of a hundred million)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand_Duplantis wrote:
<<Armand "Mondo (Italian for world)" Duplantis (born 10 November 1999) is an American-born Swedish pole vaulter and the current world record holder with a height of 6.18 metres. Armand Duplantis first tried pole vaulting as a three-year-old at the family's home in Lafayette, Louisiana, and took to the event rapidly; he set his first age group world best at age 7, and his jump of 3.86 m as a ten-year-old surpassed the previous world bests for ages 11 and 12 as well.>>
I doubt. Pardon me, but isn't this pessimism toward interstellar travel by humans biased on a supposition that human frailties will remain such as they are for the indefinite future? What if humanity is somehow able to overcome its existential threats as well as the aging problem that so limit our lifespans? Just a more hopeful take ..., offered as food for thought.
Vast interstellar distance has provided a natural cage. But we are still infants who haven't yet learned how to crawl out of our crib.
At the moment, I see the most probable two scenarios for overcoming interstellar distances.
First: an interstellar ship, organized as a place to live. That is, sending a "set of people" to the mission, who will live for several generations, pass on their knowledge and mission, and completely new people will arrive at the final point.
Second: Development of cryogenic technologies to a level where we can freeze specially trained people for a long time without risking their health.
But an increase in life expectancy to several centuries - millennia seems less likely to me. Although, in ancient times, 35-year-olds were already considered elders. And many did not manage to live up to this age.
This ignores the "why?" of it. I don't see humans wanting to do something like this. And I don't see our species being around long enough to reach the point where we have that interest.
Yes, I agree. There is no reason for this. Moreover, in principle, I see no reason to want to go even to a neighboring planet. Although this is already in the plans of one madman.
Are we doing well on this planet? Everyone is so provided with everyone that we will have nowhere to live? I do not think so. I think in the current period of space companies and research, only those that are important are those that will help us deliver communication methods to those areas where they do not exist. Those that will help us track climate change here and provide ways to influence it for the better. And so on. I think it's too early to even start dreaming about interstellar travel. Not like discussing them seriously
Re: Interstellar travel
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:46 pm
by Chris Peterson
TommyJ wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:28 am
Yes, I agree. There is no reason for this. Moreover, in principle, I see no reason to want to go even to a neighboring planet. Although this is already in the plans of one madman.
Are we doing well on this planet? Everyone is so provided with everyone that we will have nowhere to live? I do not think so. I think in the current period of space companies and research, only those that are important are those that will help us deliver communication methods to those areas where they do not exist. Those that will help us track climate change here and provide ways to influence it for the better. And so on. I think it's too early to even start dreaming about interstellar travel. Not like discussing them seriously
While there is no good reason to send manned missions to neighboring planets, I understand why people are interested in doing so, purely for exploration's sake. And it's not a big deal. It's generally practical to make such trips. We can afford them, in terms of time and in terms of cost.
But going to another star? That's just nonsense. It would require the resources of the world. And what about the ethics of sending children yet unborn on a trip with little chance of success? Not going to happen.
Re: Interstellar travel
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:10 pm
by neufer
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:46 pm
<<While there is no good reason to send manned missions to neighboring planets, I understand why people are interested in doing so, purely for exploration's sake. And it's not a big deal. It's generally practical to make such trips. We can afford them, in terms of time and in terms of cost.
But going to another star? That's just nonsense. It would require the resources of the world. And what about the ethics of sending children yet unborn on a trip with little chance of success? Not going to happen.>>
TommyJ wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:28 am
Yes, I agree. There is no reason for this. Moreover, in principle, I see no reason to want to go even to a neighboring planet. Although this is already in the plans of one madman.
Are we doing well on this planet? Everyone is so provided with everyone that we will have nowhere to live? I do not think so. I think in the current period of space companies and research, only those that are important are those that will help us deliver communication methods to those areas where they do not exist. Those that will help us track climate change here and provide ways to influence it for the better. And so on. I think it's too early to even start dreaming about interstellar travel. Not like discussing them seriously
While there is no good reason to send manned missions to neighboring planets, I understand why people are interested in doing so, purely for exploration's sake. And it's not a big deal. It's generally practical to make such trips. We can afford them, in terms of time and in terms of cost.
But going to another star? That's just nonsense. It would require the resources of the world. And what about the ethics of sending children yet unborn on a trip with little chance of success? Not going to happen.
And what about the ethics of sending children yet unborn on a trip with little chance of success?
Very simple. Through brainwashing with the Overton window.
They will put it into our heads that this is the order of things. As has already been done with many things. Besides, I think there are many people who already see this as a solution, not a problem.
Now the development of space companies is very powerful. Have you seen how many topics about new manufacturers of launch vehicles, satellites, etc. on the NASA forums?
It looks like we are in for the most active phase in the development of space technologies in the near future. Which will lead to new solutions to the problem you described
Re: Interstellar travel
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:53 pm
by neufer
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
TommyJ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:23 pm
Now the development of space companies is very powerful. Have you seen how many topics about new manufacturers of launch vehicles, satellites, etc. on the NASA forums?
It looks like we are in for the most active phase in the development of space technologies in the near future. Which will lead to new solutions to the problem you described.
Re: Interstellar travel
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:37 am
by Ann
TommyJ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:23 pm
It looks like we are in for the most active phase in the development of space technologies in the near future. Which will lead to new solutions to the problem you described
It is utterly impossible for human beings to even begin to grasp the reality of the vastness of space.
It is impossible for the human mind to fully grasp even the true distance to the nearest star system from our own, Alpha Centauri.
I'm not sure that it is humanly possible to fully grasp the distance to Pluto.
I challenge you to have a try. Click on the link below, find the scroll function and start scrolling right. Don't give up until you get to Pluto.
When you have reached Pluto (it will take you some time, and please make sure you don't miss any of the other planets while you're scrolling), then try to mentally prepare yourself for the trip to Alpha Centauri.
Let's compare the distance to Pluto with the distance to Alpha Centauri. For simplicity's sake, let's use quite round figures. The average distance to Pluto is a little less than four and a half light-hours. That is to say, on average it takes light a little less than four and a half hours to go from the Sun to Pluto.
It takes light about 4.367 years to go from the Sun to Alpha Centauri (or vice versa). So the distance to Alpha Centauri is approximately as long in light-years as the distance to Pluto is in light-hours. And in view of the fact that there are 8 765.81277 hours in a year, we can say that the distance to Alpha Centauri is ~8,000 times longer than the distance to Pluto.
Did you click on the link I gave you, and did you scroll all the way to Pluto?
Good. Now do the same thing all over 8,000 times, and you have begun to sort of grasp the distance to Alpha Centauri.
You have begun to sort of grasp it. Remember that in that link, the size of the Moon is one pixel. So to fully grasp the distance to Alpha Centauri, you have to multiply the 8,000 scrollings to Pluto with the factor it would take to cover the true size of the disk of the Moon with dots the size of one pixel.
Ann
Re: Interstellar travel
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:57 pm
by neufer
Ann wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:37 am
It is utterly impossible for human beings to even begin to grasp the reality of the vastness of space.
It is impossible for the human mind to fully grasp even the true distance to the nearest star system from our own, Alpha Centauri.
I'm not sure that it is humanly possible to fully grasp the distance to Pluto.
I challenge you to have a try. Click on the link below, find the scroll function and start scrolling right.
Did you click on the link I gave you, and did you scroll all the way to Pluto?
Good. Now do the same thing all over 8,000 times, and you have begun to sort of grasp the distance to Alpha Centauri.
You have begun to sort of grasp it. Remember that in that link, the size of the Moon is one pixel. So to fully grasp the distance to Alpha Centauri, you have to multiply the 8,000 scrollings to Pluto with the factor it would take to cover the true size of the disk of the Moon with dots the size of one pixel.
Andrea del Sarto "The Faultless Painter"
By Robert Browning
Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp,
Or what's a heaven for? All is silver-grey,
Placid and perfect with my Art: the worse!
<<Andrea del Sarto (16 July 1486 – 29 September 1530) was an Italian painter from Florence known as an outstanding fresco decorator, painter of altar-pieces, portraitist, draughtsman and colorist. Though highly regarded during his lifetime as an artist senza errori ("without errors"), his renown was eclipsed after his death by that of his contemporaries, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo and Raphael.
Andrea married Lucrezia (del Fede), widow of a hatter named Carlo, of Recanati, on 26 December 1512. Lucrezia appears in many of his paintings, often as a Madonna. However, Vasari describes her as "faithless, jealous, and vixenish with the apprentices." She is similarly characterized in Robert Browning's poem.
Andrea died in Florence at age 44 during an outbreak of Bubonic Plague at the end of September 1530. He was buried unceremoniously by the Misericordia in the church of the Servites. In Lives of the Artists, Vasari claimed Andrea received no attention at all from his wife during his terminal illness. However, it was well known at the time that plague was highly contagious, so it has been speculated that Lucrezia was simply afraid to contract the virulent and frequently-fatal disease. If true, this well-founded caution was rewarded, as she survived her husband by 40 years.>>
