Light as a Singularity in space-time/space & propagation of sound.

[acap]

The movement of light in space-time/space is a singularity because it is constant in all conditions. Light is electromagnetic waves and its speed is special. Blackholes are also singularities. Singularities do occur in real that is for certain.

Sound is the actual movement/vibration/oscillation of mass particles/medium and propagates through the medium. Its speed is dependent on the density of the medium through which it travels. How to consider sound waves in space-time needs to be investigated and understood properly. Space-time may not contain any mass but behave like an elastic material and exhibit rigid behaviour.


Hence sound waves in space-time will not propogate because the energy required for space-time to oscillate will be too high. Events like big-bang can hovever create sound waves in space-time because the big-bang is itself a singularity. There are also other huge engergy explosions whcih may generate faint sound. The speed of sound will be same as the speed of light because of the highly rigid (almost infinite) behaviour of space-time.

[Chris Peterson]

The movement of light in space-time/space is a singularity because it is constant in all conditions. Light is electromagnetic waves and its speed is special. Blackholes are also singularities. Singularities do occur in real that is for certain.

Sound is the actual movement/vibration/oscillation of mass particles/medium and propagates through the medium. Its speed is dependent on the density of the medium through which it travels. How to consider sound waves in space-time needs to be investigated and understood properly. Space-time may not contain any mass but behave like an elastic material and exhibit rigid behaviour.


Hence sound waves in space-time will not propogate because the energy required for space-time to oscillate will be too high. Events like big-bang can hovever create sound waves in space-time because the big-bang is itself a singularity. There are also other huge engergy explosions whcih may generate faint sound. The speed of sound will be same as the speed of light because of the highly rigid (almost infinite) behaviour of space-time.

I'd say that gravitational waves might reasonably be seen as sound waves carried by the medium of spacetime.

[acap]

I have stated the propagation of sound waves which we can listen. Our ear drums are sensitive to sound waves. Gravitational waves are very fundamental in nature through which the force of gravity propagates. It is also a wave and waves have a common property that they oscillate.

Sound waves by definition, requires some mass/particle to oscillate and hit our ears and make us feel it.

[acap]

It is said in Hindus (I am also a Hindu) that the Universe started with a faint sound of "OM". Did God say this to initiate the big-bang??

[Chris Peterson]

I have stated the propagation of sound waves which we can listen. Our ear drums are sensitive to sound waves. Gravitational waves are very fundamental in nature through which the force of gravity propagates. It is also a wave and waves have a common property that they oscillate.

Sound waves by definition, requires some mass/particle to oscillate and hit our ears and make us feel it.

Gravitational waves move our eardrums just like pressure waves carried through the air. And some are in the same frequency wave we are sensitive to. The only reason we don't hear them is that they are far below our threshold of sensitivity. (Although it might also be a problem that they almost instantly move structures in the inner ear, as well.)

[acap]

I have stated the propagation of sound waves which we can listen. Our ear drums are sensitive to sound waves. Gravitational waves are very fundamental in nature through which the force of gravity propagates. It is also a wave and waves have a common property that they oscillate.

Sound waves by definition, requires some mass/particle to oscillate and hit our ears and make us feel it.

Gravitational waves move our eardrums just like pressure waves carried through the air. And some are in the same frequency wave we are sensitive to. The only reason we don't hear them is that they are far below our threshold of sensitivity. (Although it might also be a problem that they almost instantly move structures in the inner ear, as well.)

Thanks for the input.

[acap]

The speed of light is constant in all conditions. Its speed is the upper limit any object can reach. Further, light is a hybrid product consisting of both electrical and magnetic waves. Light exhibit dual nature both waves and particle. Light is special and I want to refer it to as a Singularity because Singularities cannot be explained by normal laws of science. However I do not see light being refered as a Singularity by scientists. Could I know why?

[Markus Schwarz]

... I want to refer to [light] as a Singularity because Singularities cannot be explained by normal laws of science. However I do not see light being refered as a Singularity by scientists. Could I know why?

For the simple reason that it can be described by the laws of science There are Maxwell's equations to describe the 'classical' wave nature, and quantum electro dynamics for the 'quantum' particle nature.

[acap]

... I want to refer to [light] as a Singularity because Singularities cannot be explained by normal laws of science. However I do not see light being refered as a Singularity by scientists. Could I know why?

For the simple reason that it can be described by the laws of science There are Maxwell's equations to describe the 'classical' wave nature, and quantum electro dynamics for the 'quantum' particle nature.

But the speed of light remains unexplained constant at all conditions. There is a theory for the same with equations but in normal environment it contradicts everything. There are theories that will explain this behaviour at high speeds but at normal circumstances it is different. Singularities like the big-bang, black holes are special as normal physics do not explain it. Similar is the case of light speed.

[Chris Peterson]

... I want to refer to [light] as a Singularity because Singularities cannot be explained by normal laws of science. However I do not see light being refered as a Singularity by scientists. Could I know why?

For the simple reason that it can be described by the laws of science :D There are Maxwell's equations to describe the 'classical' wave nature, and quantum electro dynamics for the 'quantum' particle nature.

But the speed of light remains unexplained constant at all conditions. There is a theory for the same with equations but in normal environment it contradicts everything. There are theories that will explain this behaviour at high speeds but at normal circumstances it is different. Singularities like the big-bang, black holes are special as normal physics do not explain it. Similar is the case of light speed.

All constants are "unexplained". And what is a "normal environment"? That's just a bias based on the way our senses and our brains work. Light and quantum phenomena are as much a part of the environment as billiard balls on a table. There are no contradictions.

[bystander]

What is a singularity?

A singularity means a point where some property is infinite. For example, at the center of a black hole, according to classical theory, the density is infinite (because a finite mass is compressed to a zero volume). Hence it is a singularity. Similarly, if you extrapolate the properties of the universe to the instant of the Big Bang, you will find that both the density and the temperature go to infinity, and so that also is a singularity. It must be stated that these come due to the breaking down of the classical theory.

[acap]

Take the case of an Avogadro Number. It is constant for all elements. This is explained logically by the fact that as the atomic number increases the mass of the element also increases.

All speeds add-up or substract under normal circumstances. Weather it is the speed of solids or liquids or gases. Angular velocities also do the same.

The value of pie is also constant and it can be logically explained because as the diameter of the circle increases the circumference is bound to increase. Hence their ratio (=pie) is constant.

[neufer]

Light and quantum phenomena are as much a part of the environment as billiard balls on a table.

• The first two things a baby learns (from playing "peek-a-boo") about objects that
  cannot be perceived (seen, heard, touched, smelled or sensed in any way) are:
  
  • 1) object permanence and
    
    2) the fact that the evolution of a quantum system always involves
    a surjective bounded operator on a Hilbert space preserving the inner product.

<<Object permanence is the understanding that objects continue to exist even when they cannot be perceived (seen, heard, touched, smelled or sensed in any way).>>

<<In functional analysis, a unitary operator is a surjective bounded operator on a Hilbert space preserving the inner product. Unitary operators are usually taken as operating on a Hilbert space, but the same notion serves to define the concept of isomorphism between Hilbert spaces. In quantum physics, unitarity is a restriction on the allowed evolution of quantum systems that ensures the sum of probabilities of all possible outcomes of any event always equals 1. Similarly, the S-matrix that describes how the physical system changes in a scattering process must be a unitary operator as well; this implies the optical theorem.>>

[Chris Peterson]

Take the case of an Avogadro Number. It is constant for all elements. This is explained logically by the fact that as the atomic number increases the mass of the element also increases.

All speeds add-up or substract under normal circumstances. Weather it is the speed of solids or liquids or gases. Angular velocities also do the same.

The value of pie is also constant and it can be logically explained because as the diameter of the circle increases the circumference is bound to increase. Hence their ratio (=pie) is constant.

Avogadro's constant isn't really a fundamental constant, but a derived value based on the mass of carbon. Pi isn't obviously a fundamental constant, either, but a property based on a specific set of mathematical axioms.

It is probably a mistake to view the constant c as the speed of light. In fact, it is a fundamental constant that shows up all over the place. It is better to think of the speed of light as being defined by c.

[acap]

One of the reasons why I am proposing that light is a singularity because of its inexplicable properties. Some of the properties are explained by quantum mechanics and others by theory of relativity. There is no single rule for light and its behaviour even though can be predicted, in the normal day to day eludes common sense. Common sense says velocities add / substract and we live our daily lives based on the same. But ONLY for light, these common rules don't apply. Further, these inexplicable properties of light dictates validity of several other phenomena in a good way.

[Chris Peterson]

One of the reasons why I am proposing that light is a singularity because of its inexplicable properties. Some of the properties are explained by quantum mechanics and others by theory of relativity. There is no single rule for light and its behaviour even though can be predicted, in the normal day to day eludes common sense. Common sense says velocities add / substract and we live our daily lives based on the same. But ONLY for light, these common rules don't apply. Further, these inexplicable properties of light dictates validity of several other phenomena in a good way.

These things are not in the least inexplicable. The failure is in thinking that "common sense" should apply to how things work at scales different from that where our senses operate.

[acap]

Let us discuss singularity. A black hole is a singularity - we all would quickly agree. This is because the back-hole phenomena is out of normal physics laws and we can go any further. As a matter of fact we cannot go near it to investigate - we will annihilate in second. We all agree to this single fact - and hence the word singularity.

[Chris Peterson]

Let us discuss singularity. A black hole is a singularity - we all would quickly agree.

I would not be so quick. It is a singularity mathematically. But physically? We don't know that. Indeed, we don't have any good understanding of what a singularity might be in a physical sense, or even if there is such a thing.

[Ann]

Let us discuss singularity. A black hole is a singularity - we all would quickly agree.

I would not be so quick. It is a singularity mathematically. But physically? We don't know that. Indeed, we don't have any good understanding of what a singularity might be in a physical sense, or even if there is such a thing.

Isn't that why some people say that string theory is the solution to the conundrums of physics, because with strings we can do away with the singularities?

Ann

[acap]

According to me, there are many examples of singularities: (i) The event-horizon near the black-hole - a sort of boundary which separates predictable zone ( where events are governed by laws of physics) from the unpredictable zone (ii) The big-bang (iii) God (iv) life itself may be called as a singularity

[Chris Peterson]

According to me, there are many examples of singularities: (i) The event-horizon near the black-hole - a sort of boundary which separates predictable zone ( where events are governed by laws of physics) from the unpredictable zone (ii) The big-bang (iii) God (iv) life itself may be called as a singularity

Well, then you've adopted a definition for "singularity" that bears no resemblance to what mathematicians or physicists use.

[acap]

I would like to know more what exactly mathematics / physics say about singularities here.

[neufer]

I would like to know more what exactly mathematics / physics say about singularities here.

"You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. There's uh, singularity-kabobs, singularity creole, singularity gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple singularities, lemon singularities, coconut singularities, pepper singularities, singularity soup, singularity stew, singularity salad, singularities and potatoes, singularity burger, singularity sandwich..."

Natural sciences

• Singularity (system theory), refers in dynamical and social systems to a context in which a small change can cause a large effect
  Gravitational singularity, a region in spacetime in which tidal gravitational forces become infinite
  • Initial singularity, a hypothesized singularity of infinite density before quantum fluctuations caused the Big Bang and subsequent inflation that created the Universe
  Penrose–Hawking singularity theorems, theorems in general relativity theory about when gravitation produces singularities such as black holes
  Prandtl–Glauert singularity, the point at which a sudden drop in air pressure occurs
  Singularity (climate), a weather phenomenon associated with a specific calendar date
  Van Hove singularity in the density of states of a material

Mathematics

• Mathematical singularity, a point at which a given mathematical object is not defined or not "well-behaved", for example infinite or not differentiable

Complex analysis

• Essential singularity, a singularity near which a function exhibits extreme behavior
  Isolated singularity, a mathematical singularity that has no other singularities close to it
  Movable singularity, a concept in singularity theory
  Removable singularity, a point at which a function is not defined but at which it can be so defined that it is continuous at the singularity

Geometry

• Singular point of a curve, where the curve is not given by a smooth embedding of a parameter
  Singular point of an algebraic variety, a point where an algebraic variety is not locally flat
  Rational singularity

[acap]

Thanks

[BDanielMayfield]

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