Starship Asterisk*

moontrail wrote:Maybe the explanation would be more readable in a two columns format. It's difficult for me sometimes to read it in the one column format....

Ann wrote:From my amateur viewpoint of ignorance, I must ask:

The X-rays appear to be centered on Perseus A, NGC 1275. NGC 1275 consists of a large elliptical galaxy and a smallish spiral galaxy that is colliding with it. We are talking about a titanic cosmic collision, which is likely driving a lot of gas and dust into the central black hole of Perseus A.

So, isn't it possible that the X-rays are another product of this collision and the consequent goings-on at the feeding supermassive black hole?

Ann

Ann wrote:So, isn't it possible that the X-rays are another product of this collision and the consequent goings-on at the feeding supermassive black hole?

Chris Peterson wrote:

Ann wrote:So, isn't it possible that the X-rays are another product of this collision and the consequent goings-on at the feeding supermassive black hole?

I believe the problem comes from the fact that the x-rays appear only at a narrow wavelength, like an emission source. The x-rays produced by thermal sources like collisions are broadband, looking like blackbody or graybody emission. The narrowband source suggests a different sort of underlying physics. (My initial guess would have been a natural x-ray laser, but this isn't an area I know much about.)

moonshadow1 wrote:Check the spelling of fluorescent.

Chris Peterson wrote:

Ann wrote:
So, isn't it possible that the X-rays are another product of this collision and the consequent goings-on at the feeding supermassive black hole?

I believe the problem comes from the fact that the x-rays appear only at a narrow wavelength, like an emission source. The x-rays produced by thermal sources like collisions are broadband, looking like blackbody or graybody emission. The narrowband source suggests a different sort of underlying physics. (My initial guess would have been a natural x-ray laser, but this isn't an area I know much about.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGC_1275 wrote:
<<NGC 1275 corresponds to the radio galaxy Perseus A and is situated near the center of the large Perseus Cluster of galaxies. NGC 1275 consists of two galaxies, a central type-cD galaxy in the Perseus Cluster, and a so-called "high velocity system" (HVS) which lies in front of it. The HVS is moving at 3000 km/s towards the dominant system, and is believed to be merging with the Perseus Cluster. The HVS is not affecting the cD galaxy as it lies at least 200 thousand light years from it. however tidal interactions are disrupting it and ram-pressure stripping produced by its interaction with the intracluster medium of Perseus is stripping its gas as well as producing large amounts of star formation within it>>

moonshadow1 wrote:Check the spelling of fluorescent.

neufer wrote:Ergo: Ram-pressure stripping of iron atoms by (abundant) hydrogen gas could provide the energy source.

RJN wrote:

moonshadow1 wrote:
Check the spelling of fluorescent.

Thank you. I have now corrected the spelling of "fluorscent" on the main NASA APOD. After pointed out by an emailer, I also lower-cased the "k" in keV. I apologize for the oversights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflorescence wrote:
<<An inflorescence is a group or cluster of flowers arranged on a stem that is composed of a main branch or a complicated arrangement of branches. Morphologically, it is the modified part of the shoot of seed plants where flowers are formed. The modifications can involve the length and the nature of the internodes and the phyllotaxis, as well as variations in the proportions, compressions, swellings, adnations, connations and reduction of main and secondary axes. Inflorescence can also be defined as the reproductive portion of a plant that bears a cluster of flowers in a specific pattern.

neufer wrote:

Chris Peterson wrote:

Ann wrote:
So, isn't it possible that the X-rays are another product of this collision and the consequent goings-on at the feeding supermassive black hole?

I believe the problem comes from the fact that the x-rays appear only at a narrow wavelength, like an emission source. The x-rays produced by thermal sources like collisions are broadband, looking like blackbody or graybody emission. The narrowband source suggests a different sort of underlying physics. (My initial guess would have been a natural x-ray laser, but this isn't an area I know much about.)

The hydrogen Lyman-alpha UV line: 121.567 nm = 3/4 Rydberg constant = 10.2 eV
represents (essentially) the highest energy hydrogen line.

For silicon this would correspond to ~ 2 keV = 14² x 10.2 eV
For iron this would correspond to ~ 6.9 keV = 26² x 10.2 eV

Iron is probably the only atom abundant enough to produce strong X-ray lines in the 3.5 keV region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGC_1275 wrote:
<<NGC 1275 corresponds to the radio galaxy Perseus A and is situated near the center of the large Perseus Cluster of galaxies. NGC 1275 consists of two galaxies, a central type-cD galaxy in the Perseus Cluster, and a so-called "high velocity system" (HVS) which lies in front of it. The HVS is moving at 3000 km/s towards the dominant system, and is believed to be merging with the Perseus Cluster. The HVS is not affecting the cD galaxy as it lies at least 200 thousand light years from it. however tidal interactions are disrupting it and ram-pressure stripping produced by its interaction with the intracluster medium of Perseus is stripping its gas as well as producing large amounts of star formation within it>>

Hydrogen gas proton rest mass = Mc²= 938 MeV
Proton kinetic energy (3000 km/s) = Mv²/2 = 938 MeV (.01)²/2 = ~ 47 keV

Ergo: Ram-pressure stripping of iron atoms by (abundant) hydrogen gas could provide the energy source.

BDanielMayfield wrote:A very reasonable question Ann solution Art. Wouldn't such an ordinary, simple explanation like what Annrt has come up with need to be ruled out before calling up a heretofore unheard of explanation like fluorescent dark matter?

Bruce

Chris Peterson wrote:

neufer wrote:
Ergo: Ram-pressure stripping of iron atoms by (abundant) hydrogen gas could provide the energy source.

I think the problem is that such a mechanism doesn't explain the nature of the observed spectrum. While there are well understood processes that result in x-ray emission lines, those lines exist against a continuum, and multiple lines are present. It seems like what we have here is a monochromatic source.

BDanielMayfield wrote:
A very reasonable question Ann solution Art. Wouldn't such an ordinary, simple explanation like what Annrt has come up with need to be ruled out before calling up a heretofore unheard of explanation like fluorescent dark matter?

neufer wrote:

[b][color=#0000FF][size=150]Aloe hereroensis, showing[/size] inflorescence with branched peduncle[/color][/b]

---

BDanielMayfield wrote:

neufer wrote:
Aloe hereroensis, showing
inflorescence with branched peduncle

Were you also making an artful allusion to going out on a limb or over a ledge without much underlying support? That would be a fair comparison to FDM, imho.

• A-ledgedly.

rstevenson wrote:

moontrail wrote:Maybe the explanation would be more readable in a two columns format. It's difficult for me sometimes to read it in the one column format....

There have been previous suggestions to update the APOD page code, in part for exactly this reason, to make it more readable on a greater variety of screens and for a greater variety of humanoids. But so far, there's been no movement in this direction. I even worked out sample page code a few years ago, to no avail. The keepers of the APOD flame have their reasons, of course, for leaving it as is.

It's possible to use a custom style sheet for individual web sites, if it's worth the bother to you to set one up. I tried it once, but didn't find it all that helpful or easy to use, and the browser add-on that made it happen didn't survive a later system and browser update.

A quick fix that you might find useful: temporarily narrow the page (the entire browser window) as far as required. The text will narrow along with the page, of course.

[edit]
I just downloaded and installed Stylish, a popular add-on for customizing your view of particular sites. It served to remind me why the APOD page needs some rebuilding, even to make it possible to sensibly customize the style for your own viewing needs. The page has effectively no modern structural elements in it, so it's nearly impossible to re-position or style in other ways any of its content elements independently of any other element. For example, it was easy to shrink the description paragraph's width, but it hugged the left page edge. Applying a margin to push it over inexplicably pushed over and shrank the image above it. And so on.

Rob

neufer wrote:

BDanielMayfield wrote:

neufer wrote:
Aloe hereroensis, showing
inflorescence with branched peduncle

Were you also making an artful allusion to going out on a limb or over a ledge without much underlying support? That would be a fair comparison to FDM, imho.

• A-ledgedly.

neufer wrote:

Chris Peterson wrote:

neufer wrote: Ergo: Ram-pressure stripping of iron atoms by (abundant) hydrogen gas could provide the energy source.

I think the problem is that such a mechanism doesn't explain the nature of the observed spectrum. While there are well understood processes that result in x-ray emission lines, those lines exist against a continuum, and multiple lines are present. It seems like what we have here is a monochromatic source.

I'm not dismissing your original laser suggestion.

I'm just thinking that it would probably involve the excitation of iron ions by ram-pressure stripping from (abundant) hydrogen gas protons. No dark matter physics (or even black hole physics) is necessary when one has two galaxies colliding at 3000 km/s (as Ann suggested).

rstevenson wrote:[edit]
I just downloaded and installed Stylish, a popular add-on for customizing your view of particular sites. It served to remind me why the APOD page needs some rebuilding, even to make it possible to sensibly customize the style for your own viewing needs. The page has effectively no modern structural elements in it, so it's nearly impossible to re-position or style in other ways any of its content elements independently of any other element. For example, it was easy to shrink the description paragraph's width, but it hugged the left page edge. Applying a margin to push it over inexplicably pushed over and shrank the image above it. And so on.

p, h2, h3, center { font-family: sans-serif; }
h1{ font-weight: normal; font-family: serif; }
p { max-width: 800px; margin: 15px auto; line-height: 130%; }
center p:nth-child(3) { max-width: none; }