Starship Asterisk*

Galaxy and Planets Beyond Bristlecone Pines

Explanation: What's older than these ancient trees? Nobody you know -- but almost everything in the background of this picture. The trees are impressively old -- each part of the Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest located in eastern California, USA. There, many of the oldest trees known are located, some dating as far back as about 5,000 years. Seemingly attached to tree branches, but actually much farther in the distance, are the bright orbs of Saturn (left) and Mars. These planets formed along with the Earth and the early Solar System much earlier -- about 4.5 billion years ago. Swooping down diagonally from the upper left is the oldest structure pictured: the central band of our Milky Way Galaxy -- dating back around 9 billion years. The featured image was built from several exposures all taken from the same location -- but only a few weeks ago.

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Lovely image of the interstellar dust --- the chemicals of the interstellar gas include organic chemicals, but the mix is clearly not suggestive of interstellar life; the lack of liquid water presumably is why Fred Hoyle's intelligent black cloud is merely fiction. We're a lively planet in a very dull neighborhood.

Perhaps I'm just being fussy, but the Milky Way is not the oldest thing in the image: the dark space between the stars takes that place.

Thanks so much for these wondrous images. The Bristlecone Forest seems such an other-worldly place already, and the effect of the Milky way beyond is just tremendous!

cf_mielke@unioncab.com wrote:Perhaps I'm just being fussy, but the Milky Way is not the oldest thing in the image: the dark space between the stars takes that place.

Does spacetime itself have an age?

geckzilla wrote:

cf_mielke@unioncab.com wrote:Perhaps I'm just being fussy, but the Milky Way is not the oldest thing in the image: the dark space between the stars takes that place.

Does spacetime itself have an age?

I would think so, as it started with the Singularity opening, and then proceeds to present... it would be the same age as the Universe itself... my guess...

The TRICK is.... not SHOWING your age....

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Great image. LOTS going on... and the "Christmas Tree" effect is awesome....

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Boomer12k wrote:

geckzilla wrote:

cf_mielke@unioncab.com wrote:Perhaps I'm just being fussy, but the Milky Way is not the oldest thing in the image: the dark space between the stars takes that place.

Does spacetime itself have an age?

I would think so, as it started with the Singularity opening, and then proceeds to present... it would be the same age as the Universe itself... my guess...

The TRICK is.... not SHOWING your age....

:---[===] *

That's how I see it, too. Spacetime was born in the Big Bang.

Ann

If spacetime defines age, then how does it, itself have an age?

As a common ancestor the Bristlecone Pine leaves us in the dust. Likewise, the Milky Way and the universe have timelines so dissimilar that comparison may be irrelevant.
Still I look at the Bristlecone Pine in my backyard and think it could be possible humanity will be among the stars when it looks like the one pictured today. Where will life on Earth be in another 5000 years? Artificially intelligent? Or just another source of dust.

geckzilla wrote:If spacetime defines age, then how does it, itself have an age?

I don't think it does. Spacetime defines the coordinate system of the Universe. But it isn't itself a physical thing, just a mathematical model. But the void, the vacuum, the physical things that are contained in spacetime are reasonably seen as having ages, perhaps as old as the Universe, but perhaps not. The oldest stuff in this image is probably the hydrogen that is everywhere- both luminous in the many stars, and the stuff that's there but not visible in an optical image. Just because the stars are only a few billion years old doesn't mean their ingredients are.

Chris Peterson wrote:

geckzilla wrote:If spacetime defines age, then how does it, itself have an age?

I don't think it does. Spacetime defines the coordinate system of the Universe. But it isn't itself a physical thing, just a mathematical model. But the void, the vacuum, the physical things that are contained in spacetime are reasonably seen as having ages, perhaps as old as the Universe, but perhaps not. The oldest stuff in this image is probably the hydrogen that is everywhere- both luminous in the many stars, and the stuff that's there but not visible in an optical image. Just because the stars are only a few billion years old doesn't mean their ingredients are.

Really, Chris? I think the picture at left illustrates what I understand to be at least an approximation of Einstein's idea of matter in spacetime.

People are often asking where in the universe the Big Bang took place. Was it that way, or maybe in the opposite direction? The answer is that everything in the universe has its origins in the Big Bang, including spacetime.

But I see what you mean by the hydrogen being the oldest constituent of the universe. At the birth of the universe everything was so crowded together that it is hard to talk about a void. Perhaps dark energy is what created the void?

Ann

Ann wrote:

Chris Peterson wrote:

geckzilla wrote:If spacetime defines age, then how does it, itself have an age?

I don't think it does. Spacetime defines the coordinate system of the Universe. But it isn't itself a physical thing, just a mathematical model. But the void, the vacuum, the physical things that are contained in spacetime are reasonably seen as having ages, perhaps as old as the Universe, but perhaps not. The oldest stuff in this image is probably the hydrogen that is everywhere- both luminous in the many stars, and the stuff that's there but not visible in an optical image. Just because the stars are only a few billion years old doesn't mean their ingredients are.

Click to view full size image

Really, Chris? I think the picture at left illustrates what I understand to be at least an approximation of Einstein's idea of matter in spacetime.

Well, it illustrates the mathematical model we use to describe the coordinate system of the Universe. But something physical? I'm not so sure.

People are often asking where in the universe the Big Bang took place. Was it that way, or maybe in the opposite direction? The answer is that everything in the universe has its origins in the Big Bang, including spacetime.

Nevertheless, that doesn't require spacetime to be some physical thing that we could see or measure.

What is the green light on the left? Aurora or just "airglow"?

Jimbo Jones wrote:
What is the green light on the left? Aurora or just "airglow"?

Just "airglow", Jimbo.