Discoveries from Planck may mean rethinking the universe

[stephen63]

The actual title. Discoveries from Planck may mean rethinking how the universe began.

Recently, scientists on the Planck team announced finding certain large-scale features on the CMB sky that they cannot explain. One of them: a large cold spot, which corresponds to an anomalously large area of high density.
What does this mean? To discuss the findings, The Kavli Foundation held a discussion with three key members on the team. One important question: Will the theory for how the universe began need to be modified, amended or even fundamentally changed?
"[T]he theory of inflation predicts that today's universe should appear uniform at the largest scales in all directions," says George Efstathiou, professor of Astrophysics at the University of Cambridge and director of the Kavli Institute for Cosmology at Cambridge (KICC). "That uniformity should also characterize the distribution of fluctuations at the largest scales within the CMB. But these anomalies, which Planck confirmed, such as the cold spot, suggest that this isn't the case."

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-07-discoverie ... n.html#jCp

[rstevenson]

I have never understood (I should probably stop right there) where this idea of uniformity came from and why it is considered vital. Surely if there was turbulence after the big bang -- and surely there was -- then just as surely there should be some lack of uniformity now in the universe, even (or perhaps especially) at the largest of scales. Finding true uniformity would be, it seems to me, the real surprise.

I wonder if that idea of uniformity came out of simplifications and assumptions originally made to keep the math from becoming intractable. Surely not.

Rob

[stephen63]

Perhaps we'll get an explanation here. I thought that non-uniformity of the cosmos is what allowed stars to form in the first place. How did they determine what the criteria are for an "anomalously large area of high density"?

[Chris Peterson]

I wonder if that idea of uniformity came out of simplifications and assumptions originally made to keep the math from becoming intractable. Surely not.

The math supports a pretty high degree of uniformity. Where I have problems with these kinds of reports (and this is nothing new... cosmologists have been looking at the cold spot and other non-uniformities for a few years now) is with the hyperbole that it requires "rethinking the Universe". I very much doubt that is the case. It seems much more likely to me that small changes in various parameters, or subtle shifts in existing theory will explain what we observe without throwing out most of our existing ideas.

[bystander]

A New Baby Picture of the Universe
The Kavli Foundation | 2013 Jul 25


Planck spacecraft observations support the prevailing theory of
Big Bang cosmology – but they also raise puzzling new questions.

[geckzilla]

That's an interesting logo that the Kavli Foundation has. What is that?

[neufer]

I have never understood (I should probably stop right there) where this idea of uniformity came from and why it is considered vital. Surely if there was turbulence after the big bang -- and surely there was -- then just as surely there should be some lack of uniformity now in the universe, even (or perhaps especially) at the largest of scales. Finding true uniformity would be, it seems to me, the real surprise.

I wonder if that idea of uniformity came out of simplifications and assumptions originally made to keep the math from becoming intractable. Surely not.

Uniformity has always been an observed condition of the universe/CMB that can only be explained by inflation.

Non-uniformity is an observed condition of the of the universe/CMB that can only be explained by quantum fluctuations.

The observed CMB cold spot, however, is incompatible with current theory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There wasn't any turbulence before inflation because everything was closely packed together and easily interacted at the speed of light (therby making for extremely high viscosity). There were, however, quantum fluctuations.

There was no turbulence during inflation because such rapid expansion prevented interactions.

After inflation pieces of the universe/CMB that were no longer causally connected were quite similar simply because they had been that way before inflation (when they were causally connected).

Slight non-uniformity in the universe/CMB is a relic of pre-inflation quantum fluctuations (not turbulence).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[neufer]

That's an interesting logo that the Kavli Foundation has. What is that?

My guess is that it is a glorified octahedron
symbolizing the 3 independent dimensions
of study promoted by the Kavli Foundation.
(But I don't really know Jack.)

[Beyond]

I knew jack(s) when i was but a lad. Tensies were the hardest with a smaller hand.

[geckzilla]

My guess is that it is a glorified octahedron
symbolizing the 3 independent dimensions
of study promoted by the Kavli Foundation.
(But I don't really know Jack.)

I thought it was similar to this logo at first but after looking at this multi-colored version I see it's just a lot of geometry crammed together.

Click to view full size image

[THX1138]

It is an interesting symbol; I suppose, so for the heck of it I just copied and pasted the thing and emailed it to the Kavili Foundation asking them what it’s supposed to be, If they even bother to reply to the question I’ll post their response.

[MargaritaMc]

Click to play embedded YouTube video.

The questions asked, with time stamps, can be found here:
http://www.kavlifoundation.org/science- ... #questions

[geckzilla]

It is an interesting symbol; I suppose, so for the heck of it I just copied and pasted the thing and emailed it to the Kavili Foundation asking them what it’s supposed to be, If they even bother to reply to the question I’ll post their response.

I saw the Kavli Foundation logo again recently and was more successful this time at figuring out what the heck it was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metatron%27s_Cube

Pretty odd.

[BMAONE23]

It is an interesting symbol; I suppose, so for the heck of it I just copied and pasted the thing and emailed it to the Kavili Foundation asking them what it’s supposed to be, If they even bother to reply to the question I’ll post their response.

I saw the Kavli Foundation logo again recently and was more successful this time at figuring out what the heck it was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metatron%27s_Cube

Pretty odd.

I never met-a-trons cube that i didn't find interesting