APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

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APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by APOD Robot » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:07 am

Image A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait

Explanation: Today, the solstice is at 05:04 Universal Time, the Sun reaching the northernmost declination in its yearly journey through planet Earth's sky. A June solstice marks the astronomical beginning of summer in the northern hemisphere and winter in the south. It also brings the north's longest day, the longest period between sunrise and sunset. This composite image follows the Sun's path toward the end of the June solstice day of 2012 as it approaches the western horizon in a colorful, clear sky. The scene looks north and west along the Tyrrhenian Sea coast from Santa Severa, Italy. Appearing in the well-timed sequence, the small figure of the photographer himself is illuminated against the wall of the town's medieval castle.

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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by neufer » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:23 am

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/12/20/science/homer-s-sea-wine-dark.html wrote:
HOMER'S SEA: WINE DARK?
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
New York Times, December 20, 1983

<<IN another of the digressions that often give spice to the pursuit of science, scholars find themselves wrestling with the concept of Homer's ''wine-dark sea.'' The expression appears dozens of times in those epics, the Iliad and the Odyssey. Yet the sea in question, the Aegean, is no less blue or blue-green than any other. What did Homer have in mind?

The question is being raised once again in recent issues of Nature, the British science journal. It was proposed in one letter to the journal that perhaps the wine the Greeks drank was indeed blue.

Robert H. Wright and Robert E. D. Cattley, of Vancouver, British Columbia, noted in their letter that the ancient Greeks seldom took their wine neat. They often diluted it with as much as six or eight parts of water. Since the geology of the Peloponnesus, the site of some of the action in the epics, includes large formations of marble and limestone, the authors said, the ground water must have been alkaline, perhaps sufficiently so ''to change the color of the wine from red to blue.''

Dr. Wright is a research chemist. Dr. Cattley is a retired classics professor from the University of New Brunswick.

Other attempts to explain Homer's wine- dark sea have included such ''solutions'' as the absence of a word for ''blue'' in the ancient Greek language, congenital color- blindness in the particular Greeks of the Homeric tales and an outbreak of red-colored marine algae. Robert Rutherford-Dyer, a retired classics professor at the University of Massachusetts, said scholars had long puzzled over the ''very odd'' color tones sometimes used in classical Greek writing. ''They don't seem to reflect the same division of the color spectrum,'' he said.

But Dr. Cattley said the Greeks' color- blindness was ''patently unlikely.'' And a red tide, he and Dr. Wright said, was possible, but because it would not have lasted long it was not a satisfactory explanation for Homer's use of the wine-dark expression in so many instances.

Dr. Cattley, though he shared authorship of the blue-wine idea, believes that as a phrase the wine-dark sea was less a description than a useful poetic device. This is the traditional interpretation by classical scholars. Throughout the Iliad and the Odyssey phrases and descriptions are repeated, the wine-dark sea being only one of the most familiar and poetic of these.

This is presumably the legacy of the generation of minstrels who first told the tales that Homer later transcribed and embellished. The minstrels fell back on such stock phrases to give their audience time to absorb what had just been sung and to give themselves a moment to think about what they were going to sing next. Besides, in Greek the phrase wine-dark sea made a perfect flourish at the end of the hexameter line used by Homer. The phrase, Dr. Cattley said, is ''just one of a thousand formulaic lines that the minstrels used time and time again on the old principle that 'He writeth best who stealeth best all things both great and small, for the great mind that used them first from nature stole them all.' ''

Dr. Cattley dismisses the suggestion that Homer, being blind, made an unreliable witness in such matters. ''We don't know if Homer was blind,'' he said. ''It's a tradition, that's all. In fact, some people argue that there was no one person called Homer.'' Reaction to the Wright-Cattley letter in Nature was neither swift nor widespread. But Dr. Rutherford- Dyer, in a letter published in Nature last month, disputed the blue-wine idea because Homer in specific references to wines described them as red, dusky or black - ''hence probably like modern mavrodaphne wine.''

A Meteorological Explanation

Dr. Rutherford-Dyer suggested a possible meteorological explanation, which he elaborated in the October issue of Greece and Rome, a British journal of classical scholarship. A wine-dark sea may even have been a sign of good weather ahead, a sign like ''red at night, shepherds' delight.''

According to his reasoning, high dust content in the atmosphere gives a dark red sunset, and its reflection in a dark sea can give a ''color and texture very close to that of mavrodaphne.'' He recalled seeing this phenomenon off Maine recently when the sky carried dust from the far away eruption of Mount St. Helens. And dusty skies, he added, indicate slow- moving winds and, therefore, stable weather conditions.

Dr. Rutherford-Dyer wrote: ''Further examination of the references to 'wine-dark sea' shows that the phrase is normally used on weather conditions at dark.'' But he, too, agrees that it may be a phrase of more beauty than meaning. At least one modern poet, W. H. Auden, must have concurred. In ''The Shield of Achilles,'' he wrote of ''ships upon wine-dark seas.''

Robert Fitzgerald, the American translator of Homer, noted in an interview that the literal translation of the phrase is ''wine-faced sea.'' Still, he uses ''wine-dark sea.'' As a romantic expression, he said, it ''can't be improved on.''

Years ago, Mr. Fitzgerald recalled, he had an intimation of what the minstrels and Homer might have had in mind. He was on a ship coming out of the Corinth Canal into the Saronic Gulf of the Aegean Sea.

''The contrast of the bare arid baked land against the sea,'' Mr. Fitzgerald said, ''gave the sea such a richness of hue that I felt as though we were sailing through a bowl of dye. The depth of hue of the water was like the depth of hue of a good red wine. So I associate the expression with the richness of hue rather than a specific color. I've been content with that as my personal interpretation.''

This seems, therefore, to be one of those tangential scholarly issues that will probably never be resolved yet never go away. ''It was not such a serious matter for Homer and the minstrels,'' Mr. Fitzgerald remarked, ''as it is for the correspondents of Nature.''>>
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by Brian0955 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:21 am

I don't think this can be looking north and west. Probably south and west.

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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by admirer » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:59 am

Can we deduce the latitude of the observer from the angle between the path of the sun and the horizon, knowing the date?

Did the photographer use a flash to illuminate the western wall against which he appears?

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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by neufer » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:10 pm

Brian0955 wrote:
I don't think this can be looking north and west. Probably south and west.
In June the Sun rises & sets towards the north.
In December the Sun rises & sets towards the south.

http://www.suncalc.net/#/42.008,11.97,14/2013.06.21
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by neufer » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:37 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
admirer wrote:
Can we deduce the latitude of the observer from the angle between the path of the sun and the horizon, knowing the date?
Yes. And the angle = the latitude at equinox.

But the simpler method (when it is not equinox) is to measure the length of shadows at noon (knowing the date). :arrow:

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap120626.html
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by ozproff » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:11 pm

A June solstice marks the astronomical beginning of summer in the northern hemisphere and winter in the south.
Why does APOD continue to state this fallacy????? The June solstice DOES NOT mark the ASTRONOMICAL BEGINNING of summer in the northern hemisphere and winter in the south. It marks the astronomical MIDDLE of summer in the northern hemisphere.

The June solstice might mark the beginning of CIVIL summer in the USA, but not in Europe. June 1 marks the CIVIL beginning of summer there. June 1 also marks the CIVIL beginning of winter in the southern hemisphere.

As an astronomy professor I have enough trouble correcting this misconception amongst my students without APOD compounding the problem! Please get it right!

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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by geckzilla » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:17 pm

ozproff wrote:
A June solstice marks the astronomical beginning of summer in the northern hemisphere and winter in the south.
Why does APOD continue to state this fallacy????? The June solstice DOES NOT mark the ASTRONOMICAL BEGINNING of summer in the northern hemisphere and winter in the south. It marks the astronomical MIDDLE of summer in the northern hemisphere.

The June solstice might mark the beginning of CIVIL summer in the USA, but not in Europe. June 1 marks the CIVIL beginning of summer there. June 1 also marks the CIVIL beginning of winter in the southern hemisphere.

As an astronomy professor I have enough trouble correcting this misconception amongst my students without APOD compounding the problem! Please get it right!
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by bystander » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:48 pm

ozproff wrote:... The June solstice might mark the beginning of CIVIL summer in the USA ...
For the most part the beginning of CIVIL summer in the USA is Memorial Day weekend and the ending is Labor Day weekend. When I was growing up, school started the Tuesday after Labor Day and ended the Thursday before Memorial Day. For many in the USA these two holidays still delimit the summer season.
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by Beyond » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:52 pm

geckzilla wrote:
ozproff wrote:
A June solstice marks the astronomical beginning of summer in the northern hemisphere and winter in the south.
Why does APOD continue to state this fallacy????? The June solstice DOES NOT mark the ASTRONOMICAL BEGINNING of summer in the northern hemisphere and winter in the south. It marks the astronomical MIDDLE of summer in the northern hemisphere.

The June solstice might mark the beginning of CIVIL summer in the USA, but not in Europe. June 1 marks the CIVIL beginning of summer there. June 1 also marks the CIVIL beginning of winter in the southern hemisphere.

As an astronomy professor I have enough trouble correcting this misconception amongst my students without APOD compounding the problem! Please get it right!
We've been here before.
Ya think we'll be here again next year :?: :mrgreen:
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by Anthony Barreiro » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:36 pm

Happy Summer (whether you consider today to be Midsummer Day, the first day of Summer, or just another Friday after Memorial Day and before Labor Day) to all my friends in the northern hemisphere, including Colorado! And my friends in the southern hemisphere, take heart! Your days will begin to lengthen soon.

I got up early this morning to walk up the hill so I could see the solstice sunrise over the hills of Oakland across the bay (which was more golden hued than wine dark). It's true, the sun rose quite a ways north of Mount Diablo. I don't recall ever seeing a more northerly sunrise from here. And I've been enjoying watching my noontime shadow shortening during the past few weeks. Now I'll watch to see if the sunrises and sunsets move south and my shadow get longer. Pretty cool planet we live on here.

Here's a very cool page from earthsky.org with pictures and video of the solstices and equinoxes as seen from a geosynchronous weather satellite: http://earthsky.org/space/watching-sols ... from-space
May all beings be happy, peaceful, and free.

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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by Fritz Stumpges » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:33 pm

One thing I question about this series of photos is that the sun appears to be setting (or rising in some place in the south) at too straight of a path to have occurred on the solstice? It looks like the pictures were taken approximately 5 minutes apart and so this should have occurred over 80 minutes or so. Even allowing for refraction close to the horizon straightening out the last few frames a little, this path is far to straight for a solstice...it's more like an equinox. I don't know anything about the Photoshop (OR?) type of manipulations are needed to create many of these pictures we see nowadays but it seems that you could make just about any appearance you wish; which is sad to me. I'm sure there are many possible explanations.

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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by geckzilla » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:52 pm

Fritz Stumpges wrote:One thing I question about this series of photos is that the sun appears to be setting (or rising in some place in the south) at too straight of a path to have occurred on the solstice? It looks like the pictures were taken approximately 5 minutes apart and so this should have occurred over 80 minutes or so. Even allowing for refraction close to the horizon straightening out the last few frames a little, this path is far to straight for a solstice...it's more like an equinox. I don't know anything about the Photoshop (OR?) type of manipulations are needed to create many of these pictures we see nowadays but it seems that you could make just about any appearance you wish; which is sad to me. I'm sure there are many possible explanations.
Such a curve would be subtle. One thing I could think of that could easily alter the path of the sun would be the camera's lens distortion. I would be hesitant to suggest that the photographer purposefully straightened the line of suns out because simply stacking the photos would be sufficient with the camera on a tripod using an auto timer.
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:17 pm

Fritz Stumpges wrote:One thing I question about this series of photos is that the sun appears to be setting (or rising in some place in the south) at too straight of a path to have occurred on the solstice? It looks like the pictures were taken approximately 5 minutes apart and so this should have occurred over 80 minutes or so. Even allowing for refraction close to the horizon straightening out the last few frames a little, this path is far to straight for a solstice...it's more like an equinox. I don't know anything about the Photoshop (OR?) type of manipulations are needed to create many of these pictures we see nowadays but it seems that you could make just about any appearance you wish; which is sad to me. I'm sure there are many possible explanations.
What do you mean by "straight"? With such a narrow angle FOV, you'd expect the path to be uncurved. Furthermore, the angle with respect to the horizon is exactly as it should be for the date (note that the angle of the ecliptic at sunset is equal to the latitude of the observer, 42°, but appears somewhat more vertical in this image because the ecliptic doesn't intersect the images of the Sun; it changes position quite a bit over an hour and a half).
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by neufer » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:04 am

geckzilla wrote:
Fritz Stumpges wrote:
One thing I question about this series of photos is that the sun appears to be setting (or rising in some place in the south) at too straight of a path to have occurred on the solstice? It looks like the pictures were taken approximately 5 minutes apart and so this should have occurred over 80 minutes or so. Even allowing for refraction close to the horizon straightening out the last few frames a little, this path is far to straight for a solstice...it's more like an equinox.
Such a curve would be subtle.
It is clearly curved (i.e., concave) slightly upwards as one would expect both at summer solstice & with refraction.
http://cseligman.com/text/sky/moonillusion.htm wrote:

<<To many people, the Moon appears much larger when rising or setting than when it is higher in the sky. This effect is particularly pronounced when the horizon appears far away. In reality, the Moon's image is actually SMALLER when it is on the horizon, than when it is higher in the sky; as a result, this phenomenon is an illusion. No explanation of the Moon Illusion has general acceptance, but this page (when revised and completed) will hew to the following theory:
Things seen at large distances appear smaller than nearby things (that tiny lion sitting over there is probably just as big, but further away than that huge one, hungrily eyeing us). Almost everyone is aware of this "perspective" effect; but not as many are aware that our brain automatically corrects for the effect, to a certain extent -- that is, things that are further away look smaller than nearby things, but not as small to our brain as on our retinas. For reasons to be discussed below, which are more or less obvious without discussion, the horizon appears further away than the sky appears high, so when the Moon is on the horizon it appears further away, and our brain "adjusts" the image sent to it by our eyes, to tell us that it is really larger than what we see.
I favor this theory because (1) when we look at distant mountains, they appear larger than in snapshots taken at the same place and (2) on planetarium domes, showing the Moon and Sun at their correct size makes them look much smaller than they do in the sky. In the planetarium, we can tell that the images are much closer to us than in the sky, and even though they are the right size on our retina, they look far too small to our brains. (At LBCC, we have to show the Moon and Sun four times their correct size to approximate their appearance in the sky.) This seems to be corroborated by the fact that constellations also look smaller on the planetarium dome than in the real sky, even though their angular size is actually the same.

A series of images taken by astronaut Don Pettit from the International Space Station, showing the full moon "setting" on April 16, 2003 (the "setting" being caused by the orbital motion of the Space Station). As a celestial object's light passes through our atmosphere it is bent, or refracted, making it appear thigher than it really is. As the object nears the horizon, the amount of refraction rapidly increases, so as the Moon sets, its lower limb is "lifted" more than the top, making the Moon appear vertically squashed (but leaving its horizontal width unchanged). Scattering of light by the atmosphere, greater at shorter wavelengths than longer ones, also makes the Moon look redder as it descends. The same phenomena are observable on the Earth, but because the setting Moon is "below" the Space Station, the effects are doubled, compared to the view from the ground. (Don Pettit, Les Cowley, ISS, NASA)>>
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by geckzilla » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:13 am

I think you might be talking about a different curve, Art.
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by Fish918 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:36 am

This dude can run!

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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by geckzilla » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:42 am

I made an illustration depicting what I meant with lens distortion. All it would take for the distortion to have a significant effect on the path of the sun is for it to be on the left side of the frame which could be cropped off. (Or it might not be. Only the photographer knows.)

Not saying this is definitely it, just saying I think it's possible. The first frame is undistorted, second frame has simulated distortion, last frame is what we would see. Red line is a straight line for reference.

http://www.geckzilla.com/apod/lensdistort.png
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by rstevenson » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:21 am

Yes, there's a curve, but it's a very tiny one...
curved.jpg
I drew that black line on a crop of the full image using my software's straight line tool. I can zoom in on it and can see that my line touches the edge of both the top and bottom sun images, and is just three pixels off the edges of a few of the middle sun images. So... curved? Yes. Obviously? Not so much.

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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by neufer » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:08 am

geckzilla wrote:
I think you might be talking about a different curve, Art.
  • As You Like It Act 3, Scene 2
CELIA: Cry 'holla' to thy tongue, I prithee; it curvets.
  • All's Well That Ends Well Act 2, Scene 3
PAROLLES: He wears his honour in a box unseen,
  • That hugs his kicky-wicky here at home,
    Spending his manly marrow in her arms,
    Which should sustain the bound and high curvet
    Of Mars's fiery steed.
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by geckzilla » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:14 am

I'm gonna punt your kicky-wicky across the forum if I see another blue verse out of you!
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by Beyond » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:21 am

HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA :!: :!: Although it seems more poiple to me. But still... HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA :!: :!:
But if it was a light color blue, like Uranus, then you could kick...
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by geckzilla » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:45 am

I looked up what kicky-wicky means after writing that. Now I feel kind of bad. I will instead kick your unseen box instead of your kicky-wicky.
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by neufer » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:55 am

geckzilla wrote:
I looked up what kicky-wicky means after writing that. Now I feel kind of bad.

I will instead kick your unseen box instead of your kicky-wicky.
But I keep my kicky-wicky in my unseen box.
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Re: APOD: A Solstice Sunset Self Portrait (2013 Jun 21)

Post by geckzilla » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:59 am

I'll be sure to shoot it and put it out of its misery first, then.
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