Explanation: No one knows for sure what caused this signal. There is a slight possibility that it just might originate from an extraterrestrial intelligence. The bright colors on the blue background indicate that an anomalous signal was received here on Earth by a radio telescope involved in a Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI). A search for these signals is ongoing by several groups including volunteer members of the SETI League. Time labels the vertical axis of the above plot, and frequency marks the horizontal axis. Although this strong signal was never positively identified, astronomers have identified in it many attributes characteristic of a more mundane and ultimately terrestrial origin. In this case, a leading possibility is that the signal originates from an unusual modulation between a GPS satellite and an unidentified Earth-based source. Many unusual signals from space remain unidentified. No signal has yet been strong enough or run long enough to be unambiguously identified as originating from an extraterrestrial intelligence.
A couch is used while lying down, while a sofa or settee is for sitting upright.
The word "couch" derives from Old French couche, meaning "bed", and from coucher, meaning "put to bed, lay down".
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:12 am
by Boomer12k
Seti is bogus. Radio signals blend in with the background radiation "noise" after 1.5 to 2 light years distance. This means that nobody is watching "LUCY", or listening to old radio shows, even in the Proxima Centauri system. So ANY intelligent radio signals from even nearby stars are not discernible from the background noise. Therefore it is a wasted effort. Unless they are already here. And if they are....it is probably too late!!!! Plus, let us say, you are an advanced alien race. You do not want your presents known. You use the same wave lengths barbarians can listen too?????? I don't thinks so....
In 1974, humans broadcast the first message targeted at extraterrestrial life using the Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico. The message, which was aimed at the globular star cluster M13 located 25,000 light years away (...).
Since then, humans have sent three other messages to nearby stars and planets (20-69 light-years away).
Waste of time and effort?
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:53 am
by GoBears
This signal is described as "an unusual modulation between a GPS satellite and an unidentified Earth-based source." I believe the appropriate phrase is "beat frequency," not "modulation."
A beat frequency is the mixing of two signals to produce the sum and the difference between the two frequencies, one of which is shown on this chart. Modulation on the other hand is the intentional placement of information on a carrier signal.
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:51 pm
by León
I have written about Kepler planetary system 11, to two thousand light years away
Believed to be alone and water exclusively, and not, it is necessary to prepare for the public meeting.
Hopefully tune in radio broadcasts, the news clearly tell us two thousand years overdue, if they had agents on the ground may come to know the details of the death of the Divine Augustus and to audio when you say the phrase, "the comedy and finite "and solve the riddle of whether such sentence was pronounced in Latin or Greek as some argue.
Personally I have the strange hope that we can access records that reveal the true story of so many contradictory facts and many others unknown.
Boomer12k wrote:Seti is bogus. Radio signals blend in with the background radiation "noise" after 1.5 to 2 light years distance. This means that nobody is watching "LUCY", or listening to old radio shows, even in the Proxima Centauri system. So ANY intelligent radio signals from even nearby stars are not discernible from the background noise. Therefore it is a wasted effort. Unless they are already here. And if they are....it is probably too late!!!! Plus, let us say, you are an advanced alien race. You do not want your presents known. You use the same wave lengths barbarians can listen too?????? I don't thinks so....
Let me guess, you also believe in conspiracy theories.
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:16 pm
by NoelC
Boomer12k wrote:You do not want your presents known.
Yeah, that would be a real social blunder, because your Aunt Xzllygy could have actually bought you a nicer present than the one she bought your litter mate AnCqq22 and he'd be all, like "she likes you better, bro".
-Noel
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:22 pm
by NoelC
Heh, the increased interest this image has caused must have shut down the servers - many of the links in the caption just don't work.
-Noel
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:28 pm
by Ann
For SETI to work, we must make the following assuptions:
1) There must be life on other planets.
2) There must be complex life forms, not just bacteria. An example of complex life forms are the now-extinct trilobites.
3) There must be intelligent, self-aware life forms. An example of reasonably intelligent and self-aware life forms are certain birds, for example crows.
4) There must be life-forms that are not only intelligent and self-aware, but have reached the same level of intelligence as human beings.
5) Thre must be life-forms that have not only reached the intelligence of Homo Sapiens, but have also begun to build great civilizations. An example of a great civilization is the Egyptian civilization that existed 5,000 years ago.
6) There must be life-forms that have not only begun to build great civilizations, but have made scientific and technological breakthroughs similar to what took place in Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries.
7) There must be life forms that have not only made scientific and technological breakthroughs, but have reached a level of scientific and technological sophistication similar to what we have had on the Earth for only a few decades.
8) Since we here on Earth are not making any sort of dedicated effort to make our presence known to intelligent species on other planets, and since the signals that we accidentally broadcast into space will be scattered and diluted beyond recognition before they reach the nearest stars, the alien intelligences that can be detected through SETI must invest more in interstellar communication than we do.
9) Since space is vast, and since even the nearest stars are far away, and since the signals that are sent into space will be scattered and diluted exponentially with distance, for practical reasons the signals that we can detect through SETI must be sent to us from a planet orbiting a relatively nearby star.
10) Since space is vast, even a nearby civilization will either have to aim pretty much directly at us if we are to detect their signal, or else they willl have to broadcast an enormously strong signal in all directions in space, which is going to take an incredible amount of energy.
To summarize, SETI is a project which is looking for a needle in a haystack without even knowing if the needle is there, or if it can be found if it is there.
Ann
Date? Direction? Center Frequency? Units?
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:42 pm
by geoffrey.landis
It would be nice to have the date and direction, as well as some units on the chart (what frequency is this? How long is a time period is being shown here, milliseconds? minutes? hours?)
A little explanation would be nice. Why is the frequency drifting-- is this Earth's rotational Doppler, or what?
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:48 pm
by geoffrey.landis
Ann wrote:For SETI to work, we must make the following assuptions...
And for SETI to fail to get any results, we must also make a long list of assumptions: either no life on other planets, or no complex life, etc.
The real answer is, we don't know. The number could, indeed, be zero, but we don't know that.
And if we don't look, we won't ever find out.
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:55 pm
by owlice
Wikipedia puts it well: "The search for extraterrestrial intelligence is not an assertion that extraterrestrial intelligence exists."
We will never be able to say definitively that there is no other intelligent life in the universe. We may someday, however, be able to say there is (or was).
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:10 pm
by neufer
Boomer12k wrote:
Seti is bogus. Radio signals blend in with the background radiation "noise" after 1.5 to 2 light years distance.
This means that nobody is watching "LUCY", or listening to old radio shows, even in the Proxima Centauri system.
It would probably need to be translated in any event:
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Boomer12k wrote:
So ANY intelligent radio signals from even nearby stars are not discernible from the background noise.
Therefore it is a wasted effort. Unless they are already here. And if they are....it is probably too late!!!!
<<Rush Limbaugh’s three-decade career in radio has produced some of the dumbest statements ever uttered:
1. “There is no conclusive proof that nicotine’s addictive… And the same thing with cigarettes causing emphysema, lung cancer, heart disease.”
2. “Columbus saved the Indians from themselves.”
3. “He is exaggerating the effects of the disease. He’s moving all around and shaking and it’s purely an act… This is really shameless of Michael J. Fox. Either he didn’t take his medication or he’s acting.”
4. “[African Americans] are twelve percent of the population. Who the hell cares?”
5. “Kurt Cobain was, ladies and gentlemen, a worthless shred of human debris.”
6. “Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream.”
7. “We are a growing country and everybody needs energy! We’re not going to stay the United States if we start reducing energy usage. Conservation is not the answer.”
8. To a black caller: “Take that bone out of your nose and call me back.”
9. On torture at Abu Ghraib: “This is no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation. And we’re going to ruin people’s lives over it, and we’re going to hamper our military effort, and then we are going to really hammer them because they had a good time. You know, these people are being fired at every day. I’m talking about people having a good time, these people-you ever heard of emotional release? You ever heard of need to blow some team off?”
10. “Screw the world. Do you really think we ought to govern ourselves based on what the world thinks of us?”
Boomer12k wrote:
Plus, let us say, you are an advanced alien race. You do not want your presents [sic] known.
You use the same wave lengths barbarians can listen too [sic]?????? I don't thinks so....
You use the same language librarians should listen to? I don't thinks so.... :
------------------------------------
PRESENCE, n. [L. proesentia; proe, before, and esse, to be.] The existence of a person or thing in a certain place; opposed to absence.
------------------------------------
PRESENT, n. That which is presented or given; a gift; a donative; something given or offered to another gratuitously.
PRESENTS in the plural, is used in law for a deed of conveyance, a lease, letter of attorney or other writing;
as in the phrase, "Know all men by these presents," that is, by the writing itself, per presentes.
------------------------------------
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:13 pm
by rstevenson
When I was very young and therefore foolishly optimistic, I used to think that a successful SETI result would have a huge positive impact on humanity, making us forget our petty differences. Being now older, wiser and therefore pessimistic, I think it might have just the opposite effect. It might cause a backlash against science and scientists from the most conservative elements in our various societies, those who depend on ignorance for their very survival. The last thing such people want is proof that we're not unique, that we need not be stuck forever on this mud pot, subject to their stultifying control.
Nevertheless, we must search; we must hope. And eventually, I believe, we will find others. And let the chips fall where they may.
Rob
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:05 pm
by neufer
rstevenson wrote:
When I was very young and therefore foolishly optimistic, I used to think that a successful SETI result
would have a huge positive impact on humanity, making us forget our petty differences.
We have petty differences?!
rstevenson wrote:
Being now older, wiser and therefore pessimistic, I think it might have just the opposite effect.
We'll remember our petty differences?!
rstevenson wrote:
It might cause a backlash against science and scientists from the most conservative elements in our various societies,
those who depend on ignorance for their very survival.
rstevenson wrote:
The last thing such people want is proof that we're not unique, that we need not be stuck forever on this mud pot, subject to their stultifying control.
Nevertheless, we must search; we must hope. And eventually, I believe, we will find others. And let the chips fall where they may.
Over the years, us long term Asternauts learn a number of things that for one reason or another, we just cannot post.
Doesn't seem to matter now, so...
Skinner dreams of finding something in the sky and having it named after him. Bart accidentally locates a comet which is named after him. Scientists soon discover that the comet is heading straight for Springfield. Professor Frink plans to launch a missile at the comet, dispelling everyone's fears (save only by Lisa, who knows that this plan can backfire, and Moe, because in any circumstance, his tavern will be destroyed anyway). However, the missile flies past the comet, instead blowing up the only bridge out of town.
Kent Brockman: Now, over the years, a newsman learns a number of things that for one reason or another, he just cannot report. Doesn't seem to matter now, so... the following people are gay:
[a list hurriedly flashes by composed of the show's production staff, who had to sign legal agreements that they would not sue their own show. As a result, according to Groening, many of the staff appear on lists of gay people on the Internet.]
Marge Simpson: Turn it off!
Homer: [copying down the list quickly] Just a second...
After a Congressional bill to evacuate Springfield is defeated, Homer decides that they should stay in the bomb shelter that Ned Flanders built. Anticipating this, Ned had built it large enough for both families. One hour before Springfield is destroyed, the rest of the townspeople arrive, demanding a place in the bunker. Homer is unable to close the door and someone has to leave. Homer decides that the only thing the "world of the future" will not need is left-handed stores and tells Ned to go. Eventually, Homer feels guilty and leaves as well, followed by the other townspeople and they all converge on a hill to await death. As the comet enters the atmosphere, it burns up in the thick layer of pollution over Springfield, popping Skinner's weather balloon and destroying Ned's bunker on the way. The town decides to burn down the observatory to prevent a similar incident from ever happening again. The Simpsons, however, are more worried at the fact Homer correctly predicted the fate of the comet - that it would burn up and fall to earth as a rock no bigger than a Chihuahua's head.>>
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:09 pm
by orin stepanek
I think that man doesn't like to feel that he is alone. So he looks; hoping to find someone that he can share with. Hence SETI!
If we find a signal; it will be so far; that if there was life there; It may be extinct by the time we get the signal!
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:27 pm
by Ann
geoffrey.landis wrote:
Ann wrote:For SETI to work, we must make the following assuptions...
And for SETI to fail to get any results, we must also make a long list of assumptions: either no life on other planets, or no complex life, etc.
The real answer is, we don't know. The number could, indeed, be zero, but we don't know that.
And if we don't look, we won't ever find out.
My point is that we have little chance of finding out whether or not there are alien life forms out there by using SETI. Like Owlice said, we can never prove a negative - that is, if we don't find anything at all, that doesn't prove much at all - so we can go on searching and searching and searching pretty much indefinitely without finding anything, and still say that we should go on searching.
Is that a problem? Our continued fruitless searching, I mean? Well, it is a problem if it directs funding that could have been used more profitably into this needle-in-a-haystack project that doesn't stand a very good chance of succeeding at all.
But hey, if SETI can be done on the cheap, relatively speaking, who am I to complain?
Ann
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:28 pm
by skyhound
Ann is exactly right. The primary assumption of SETI is that an extraterrestrial intelligence is intentionally beaming a very strong signal right at us and that it is either from a nearby star or a very, very strong signal. I have no problem with this. But I do have a problem with SETI researchers not being up front about it with the public. They have allowed most people to believe otherwise and I think that is wrong. The project in Northern California (forget the name) to scan large numbers of distant stars, for instance, is so unlikely to succeed as to border on fraud. For instance, not one mention was made of these issues in last year's Nova Science Now about it. I wonder if the investors really understand the inverse square law? Or that these signals are presumably located right next to an enormous natural one? The best chance for SETI success has already passed: searching nearby stars for weaker signals where there is also a higher likelihood they would know of our potential presence and thus target us.
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:05 pm
by NoelC
That could be considered narrow thinking!
Maybe a few hundred years past the "industrial revolution" of a society, they learned how to harness unimaginable power by, say, splitting subatomic particles, and - perhaps because they have satellites all over their solar system - exawatt radio signals are generated routinely.
Or maybe someone happens to be beaming a strong, directed signal to someone else - for reasons we can't imagine - and we just happen to be in line with it. The chances may seem small but it's a big damned universe!
The point is that we don't know, but we can certainly listen to see what might turn up. It'd be pretty stupid if we didn't, losing the chance to learn from what we might be missing.
-Noel
Amir Alexander about an Anomalous Allen alien Array
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:11 pm
by neufer
Ann wrote:
Our continued fruitless searching, I mean? Well, it is a problem if it directs funding that could have been used more profitably into this needle-in-a-haystack project that doesn't stand a very good chance of succeeding at all.
But hey, if SETI can be done on the cheap, relatively speaking, who am I to complain?
But hey, since SETI is done on the cheap AND PURELY WITH PRIVATE FUNDING who is anyone to complain
<<SETI research suffered a severe blow with the cancellation of the NASA program in 1993, but thanks to the leadership of The SETI Institute and The Planetary Society it recovered quickly. While no longer commanding the scale of resources made available through NASA, SETI programs are also free from the political and funding hazards that come with dependence on government funding. SETI after NASA is perhaps a smaller enterprise, but it is also more diverse, more widely accepted in academic institutions around the world, and - as the phenomenal success of SETI@home has demonstrated - remarkably popular with the public at large. With a broader base and a wider appeal, SETI today is a more viable enterprise than ever before.
Some of these projects are the work of The SETI League. Composed of about 1300 enthusiasts, the League is working to set up a network of amateur SETI observers, each working with their own radio dish. Eventually, the SETI League hopes to have no less than 5000 SETI observing stations across the world. With just over 100 observers so far, the venture, known as Project Argus, still has a long way to go. The SETI League is also working on establishing an array of radio dishes in northern New Jersey, which they call "Array2k." When completed, the array will form a new kind of radio telescope, and will be dedicated exclusively to SETI.
Paul Allen
One of the best funded and most promising projects for the future of SETI is the Allen Telescope Array, which will be built at the Hat Creek Observatory in northern California's Cascade mountains. The Allen Array is a joint venture of U.C. Berkeley and the SETI Institute, and it is underwritten by a 26 million dollar donation by Microsoft founder Paul Allen. 350 radio dishes, about 6 meters (20 feet) each in diameter, will constitute the Array when completed, giving it a collecting area greater than that of a 100 meter dish.
The Allen Array represents a true breakthrough for radio SETI. As a dedicated observatory, SETI researchers will be using it year-round to search for alien signals, as compared to the several weeks every year, which are allotted to Project Phoenix at Arecibo. In addition, since it is composed of hundreds of separate dishes, the array can be pointed at several points in the sky at the same time, and therefore listen to signals from several stars simultaneously. The latest technology will enable the Array to cover a frequency band 9 gigahertz wide, more than 3 times wider than project Phoenix, which scans the widest band of any of today's searches. All of this represents a qualitative leap in the capacity of SETI searches, and increases the chances of detecting a "real" signal several-fold.>>
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:27 pm
by NoelC
Mr. Allen has clearly deduced (by watching commercials for Microsoft Windows, amongst other things) that to find truly intelligent life one has to look out there.
-Noel
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:58 am
by ScrappyLaptop
Ann wrote: Like Owlice said, we can never prove a negative
That's not exactly...accurate.
In formal logic, you can prove the exclusive opposite of something to be false.
In other words, if you can prove the exclusive opposite to a negative to be false, the negative must be true.
Works best with easy binariesf, gets a little messy with "life or no life" spread across the entire universe...
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:58 am
by Chris Peterson
Ann wrote:Like Owlice said, we can never prove a negative - that is, if we don't find anything at all, that doesn't prove much at all - so we can go on searching and searching and searching pretty much indefinitely without finding anything, and still say that we should go on searching.
An important, and often overlooked aspect of science, is that proof is not a requirement. The longer we search, and the more approaches we use (different frequencies, different sensitivities, different search protocols), the more information we have. That is, we don't just have a single piece of information, "no life detected", but we can have a lot of data which places constraints on what might be out there. For instance, we might say with near certainty that we know that there is no intelligent life on Star X which is using unfocused radio with a given power level and a given spectrum.
Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:25 am
by rstevenson
As Thomas Edison is supposed to have said, "Results? Why, man, I have gotten lots of results! If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is often a step forward...."
An Anomalous SETI Signal
