Explanation: What is causing the picturesque ripples of supernova remnant SNR 0509-67.5? The ripples, as well as the greater nebula, were imaged in unprecedented detail by the Hubble Space Telescope in 2006 and again late last year. The red color was recoded by a Hubble filter that left only the light emitted by energetic hydrogen. The precise reason for the ripples remains unknown, with two considered origin hypotheses relating them to relatively dense portions of either ejected or impacted gas. The reason for the broader red glowing ring is more clear, with expansion speed and light echos relating it to a classic Type Ia supernova explosion that must have occurred about 400 years earlier. SNR 0509 currently spans about 23 light years and lies about 160,000 light years away toward the constellation of the dolphinfish (Dorado) in the Large Magellanic Cloud. The expanding ring carries with it another great mystery, however: why wasn't this supernova seen 400 years ago when light from the initial blast should have passed the Earth?
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:41 am
by owlice
That is a stunner; wow!!!
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:50 am
by davidgin50
"why wasn't it seen 400 years ago" Maybe it was but how many people were capable of leaving written records of such events in the Southern Hemisphere in 1611?
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:22 pm
by questionfromBill
Why is it shaped like a ring rather than a sphere?
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:24 pm
by Hawkings
Why wasn't it seen 400 years ago? You said it was 160,000 light years away. That means the light from the super nova would take 160,000 years to get here, therefore the supernova happened more than 160,000 years ago, not 400...
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:45 pm
by msquared
Since the 'edge' of the explosion is so precise, maybe the explosion resulted in a very short burst of brilliant light lasting only a few days and therefore 'missed' by anyone in a position of keeping records.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:42 pm
by NoelC
Bill, it's really a (somewhat imperfect) bubble but it looks like a ring because we're looking at/through more gas around the edges. Note the slight lightening as you move in from the edges.
Hawkings, it happened 400 years ago "our time", or 160,400 years ago in some "absolute" sense that a being (or our imaginations) living outside the dimensions of our relativistic universe might perceive.
-Noel
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:58 pm
by geckzilla
Today this is my birthday bubble.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:59 pm
by isoparix
davidgin50 wrote:"why wasn't it seen 400 years ago" Maybe it was but how many people were capable of leaving written records of such events in the Southern Hemisphere in 1611?
And if the weather down there, then, was anything like the weather in the Northern Hemisphere, here, now, they wouldn't have seen anything for weeks!
-Around the rocks the rugged--
-No, no. Rocks. Rocks.
Around the rocks the rugged rascal ran.
-Very good. Now. ''Sinful Caesar sipped his snifter. . . seized his knees and sneezed. ''
-Sinful Caesar snipped his sifter--
-Sipped his snifter.
Sipped his snifter. Oh, thank you.
Sinful Caesar sipped his snifter, seized his knees and sneezed.
-Marvelous. -Wonderful.
Here is a good one.
''Chester chooses chestnuts, cheddar cheese with chewy chives.
He chews them and he chooses them. He chooses them and he chews them. . .
. . .those chestnuts, cheddar cheese and chives in cheery, charming chunks. ''
-Wonderful! Do another one. -Thank you.
''Moses supposes his toeses are roses. . .but Moses supposes erroneously.
Moses, he knowses his toeses aren't roses. . .as Moses supposes his toeses to be. ''
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Gie geckzilla a haggis!
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:39 pm
by neufer
geckzilla wrote:
Today this is my birthday bubble.
January Births:
* 1627 – Robert Boyle, Irish chemist (d. 1691)
* 1736 – Joseph Louis Lagrange, Italian-born mathematician (d. 1813)
* 1759 – Robert Burns, Scottish poet (d. 1796)
* 1874 – W. Somerset Maugham, English writer (d. 1965)
* 1882 – Virginia Woolf, English writer (d. 1941)
* 1917 – Ilya Prigogine, Russian scientist Nobel Laureate (d. 2003)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burns_supper wrote:
<<A Burns supper is a celebration of the life and poetry of the poet Robert Burns normally held on or near the poet's birthday, 25 January. They held the first Burns supper on what they thought was his birthday on 29 January 1802, but in 1803 discovered from the Ayr parish records that the correct date was 25 January 1759, and since then suppers have been held to 25 January, Burns' birthday. Informal suppers typically include haggis, Scotch whisky and the recitation of Burns' poetry. Formal dinners are hosted by organisations such as the Freemasons or St Andrews Societies.
Entrance of the haggis:
Everyone stands as the main course is brought in. This is always a haggis on a large dish. It is usually brought in by the cook, generally while a piper plays bagpipes and leads the way to the host's table, where the haggis is laid down. He/she might play 'A man's a man for a' that', 'Robbie Burns Medley' or 'The Star O' Robbie Burns'. The host, or perhaps a guest with a talent, then recites the Address To a Haggis:
Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face,
Great chieftain o' the puddin-race!
Aboon them a' ye tak your place,
Painch, tripe, or thairm:
Weel are ye wordy o' a grace
As lang's my arm.
Ye Pow'rs wha mak mankind your care,
And dish them out their bill o' fare,
Auld Scotland wants nae skinkin ware
That jaups in luggies;
But, if ye wish her gratefu' prayer,
Gie her a haggis!
Finally everyone is asked to stand, join hands, and sing Auld Lang Syne.>>
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:54 pm
by Stevenson
Hawkings wrote:Why wasn't it seen 400 years ago? You said it was 160,000 light years away. That means the light from the super nova would take 160,000 years to get here, therefore the supernova happened more than 160,000 years ago, not 400...
I have the same question and no disrespect but a bit better/more detailed answer shall be greatly appreciated.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:00 pm
by neufer
Stevenson wrote:
Hawkings wrote:
Why wasn't it seen 400 years ago? You said it was 160,000 light years away. That means the light from the super nova would take 160,000 years to get here, therefore the supernova happened more than 160,000 years ago, not 400...
I have the same question and no disrespect but a bit better/more detailed answer shall be greatly appreciated.
The supernova happened 160,400 years ago and it should have been seen on earth 400 years ago.
A bright Ia supernova would have been at peak magnitude -0.8 for a short period of time.
The Chinese would probably have recorded it but it was too far south for them.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:11 pm
by rstevenson
Imagine the explosion taking place 160,400 years ago, resulting in this lovely ring reaching this stage of its formation about 400 years after that, or about 160,000 years ago. The light from the explosion takes 160,000 years to travel to Earth, getting here about 400 years ago (where it is apparently missed by all who might have recorded it.) The light from the ring also takes 160,000 years to get here -- and here it is.
Rob
Oops! I see neufer beat me to it.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:02 pm
by Chris Peterson
Stevenson wrote:
Hawkings wrote:Why wasn't it seen 400 years ago? You said it was 160,000 light years away. That means the light from the super nova would take 160,000 years to get here, therefore the supernova happened more than 160,000 years ago, not 400...
I have the same question and no disrespect but a bit better/more detailed answer shall be greatly appreciated. :)
"When" an event happens can be defined in different ways. The vast majority of time, the only definition that is really useful is when that event is observed. So most of the time, this is what is meant when a time is given. There is no correction for the distance, because it doesn't matter. We can say this supernova happened 400 years ago, because in a very real sense, it did.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:13 pm
by starfalcon222
dunno what the time period of the visible event might have been, however, the folks might have been busy with the English, the Spanish, the weather, plague, or other more pressing busness.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:25 pm
by Chris Peterson
starfalcon222 wrote:dunno what the time period of the visible event might have been, however, the folks might have been busy with the English, the Spanish, the weather, plague, or other more pressing busness.
At that time, anything visible mainly from the southern hemisphere was much more likely to go unseen by anybody in a position to record it for posterity.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:40 pm
by Mikey
Coulds the rings have formed by "shepherding" objects orbiting the star and the wavy shapes in the rings formed as the outer shell of the supernova passed through the orbits of those objects.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:41 pm
by bystander
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:54 pm
by Guest
The ring is an illusion much in the same way the twilight horizon becomes red. It is actually a ball and not a ring. When the gasses expanded beyond other stars and planets the gravity distorted the near perfect look, thus the ripple effect. Awesome photo.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:02 pm
by BMAONE23
davidgin50 wrote:"why wasn't it seen 400 years ago" Maybe it was but how many people were capable of leaving written records of such events in the Southern Hemisphere in 1611?
1611 is when the King James version of the bible was published for the masses
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:08 pm
by Chris Peterson
BMAONE23 wrote:
davidgin50 wrote:"why wasn't it seen 400 years ago" Maybe it was but how many people were capable of leaving written records of such events in the Southern Hemisphere in 1611?
1611 is when the King James version of the bible was published for the masses
Yeah. In the northern hemisphere. Most of the southern hemisphere masses couldn't read, and didn't even have writing systems.
Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:32 pm
by neufer
Chris Peterson wrote:
BMAONE23 wrote:
davidgin50 wrote:"why wasn't it seen 400 years ago" Maybe it was but how many people were capable of leaving written records of such events in the Southern Hemisphere in 1611?
1611 is when the King James version of the bible was published for the masses
Yeah. In the northern hemisphere.
Most of the southern hemisphere masses couldn't read, and didn't even have writing systems.
They wouldn't be using the KJV for Masses in any event.
The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509
