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I'm curious as to what you might consider a well-rounded education for, say, a 21-year-old who is a competent, bright student. If you share your thoughts on this matter, I'll be most interested to read them!

owlice wrote:I'm curious as to what you might consider a well-rounded education for, say, a 21-year-old who is a competent, bright student.

I'm 41 years older than that and I'm only now feeling well-rounded enough to get something out of a university education. So I'd recommend life, work, a long relationship with a significant other, and several large but not fatal mistakes. That'll take the edges off.

But seriously, working at a variety of jobs in a variety of locales is very, very helpful. For without perspective, education is only book learnin'.

Rob

neufer!! Oh, that's funny; you're cracking me up here!! Too bad for you I'm immune to the stickiness of the song! (Even if I weren't, I actually like it and have willingly been through the ride many times in my life.)

Rob, I have a 16-year-old whose education I'm still trying to guide, though my influence weakens with every passing year month day second; I'm not willing to suggest he take up a long relationship with a significant other just yet!! He left high school after his sophomore year to attend college, so didn't fulfill requirements in his high school program that would have given him some subjects that I think should be included in a well-rounded education. But I wonder how much consensus there might be in what makes up a well-rounded education for a young adult, hence my question.

music, literature, philosophy, history, comparative religion, economics, logic, mathematics, biology, physics, chemistry ...

I believe the two most important are logic and mathematics.

bystander wrote:music, literature, philosophy, history, comparative religion, economics, logic, mathematics, biology, physics, chemistry ...

I believe the two most important are logic and mathematics.

And I pretty much covered everything else with my answer.

bystander wrote:music, literature, philosophy, history, comparative religion, economics, logic, mathematics, biology, physics, chemistry ...

I believe the two most important are logic and mathematics.

bystander, thank you; much appreciated!

neufer, your answer, the kid had mastered at four and then had several refresher courses after that; I think those days are over.

I attended public high school in Westchester, NY but spent the last year of my education in Vermont. In NY I was not required to take a full four years of all the basic subjects. I only had to take one year of Math and I think two years of Science. This allowed me to work exclusively on what I thought then--as a teenager--were my best competencies: English, Social Studies, and Music. While I was a "High Honors" student, with an average of over 97%, my education wasn't well rounded at all. I have to fault the system for that, because the core requirements should have been more comprehensive--and seriously, putting a teenager in charge of their own academic direction with only a bunch of flunked professionals who became teachers because they were largely incabable of anything else (in the United States) is just idiotic.

That one year in Vermont I had to take two English classes for some reason I can't remember, as well as two math classes, and one or two science classes. It turned out that the subjects I dreaded most--especially science--were really my core compentencies. My Biology teacher there was a real scientist, we got to do real science, and that was absolutely inspiring. But by then it was too late, besides which that school in Vermont was so easy that I literally was drunk at the final exams and still scored in the mid-90s. So I went to college initially for Music, to play saxophone (badly). What a waste.

So there I was in Boston, I guy in the wrong field with a good brain but not really getting that fact yet. I started learning Japanese as a hobby (I'm fluent now) and reading classic literature which had intimidated me before because school teachers gave the impression books are written in some secret code that only they can understand (which is BS). I also soaked up books on a wide range of subjects, and became an avid science enthusiast (hense my appearence here). My Japanese ability landed me in United Nations activities on Translation committees where I supported the activities of world renouned scholars (very exciting).

Eventually I went back to college for Political Science for a few classes at UMass, found out I was not so dumb, and out of a desire to finish my education made a bet with myself: I would apply to Harvard, and WHEN I didn't get in I would hop on a plane to California, establish residency, and finish college there because their state financial aid was attractively good back then.

My plans were ruined when Harvard accepted me. It was an offer I could not refuse. UMass actually sent me a letter requesting that I come back. Harvard gave me a scholarship the next year.

Until Harvard though, I can't say I had a well-rounded education. I was a great student, but really wasn't educated in anything beyond writing, music (which I really wasn't good at anyway), and . . . well, that was pretty much it outside of things I just learned on my own. I can only imagine that Harvard considered me such an active person intellectually--through my UN activities and going to UMass for a bit--that it filled in for my lopsided formal education.

In retrospect, I have to say a well-rounded education includes all the basic competencies:
Moral Reasoning (philosophy and/or world religions),
Quantitative Reasoning (math, math, and more math; if you can't do math then you really haven't given it an honest try),
Physical Education (actual education--not just bullying a bunch of kids about one hour several days a week, but required participation in a sport),
Language (your own and one foreign),
Social Science (History, Political Theory, or Sociology), and
Science (one Physical Science and one Natural Science).

To me, this is the absolute minimum. If I had a kid, even if the schools did not require a comprehensive education (as mine didn't) I would require it.

rstevenson wrote:I'm 41 years older than that and I'm only now feeling well-rounded enough to get something out of a university education. So I'd recommend life, work, a long relationship with a significant other, and several large but not fatal mistakes. That'll take the edges off.

But seriously, working at a variety of jobs in a variety of locales is very, very helpful. For without perspective, education is only book learnin'.

Rob

Work! Now there's a proper suggestion. Yes, every student should be required to hold some kind of job, for a minimum number of total hours during their education. The world of work should not be as disorienting as it is for an enormous number of smart yet soft-handed students.

In retrospect, I have to say a well-rounded education includes all the basic competencies:
Moral Reasoning (philosophy and/or world religions),
Quantitative Reasoning (math, math, and more math; if you can't do math then you really haven't given it an honest try),
Physical Education (actual education--not just bullying a bunch of kids about one hour several days a week, but required participation in a sport),
Language (your own and one foreign),
Social Science (History, Political Theory, or Sociology), and
Science (one Physical Science and one Natural Science).

No music? No art?

Phys Ed classes in schools are IMHO a waste for students who are not at all interested in team sports. I understand why schools concentrate on them -- with so many kids, they kind of have to -- but the activities/skills I felt it imperative for my son to learn were not ones that schools usually teach. How to ride a bike (and use one for basic transportation), ice skate, swim, hike, throw and catch (Frisbee, mostly, though a baseball and football, too) and so on. Basically, physical activities that one can do for life. He learned how to play tennis and racquetball his first semester of college, and these are also things one can do for life (or at least until the knees need replacing).

CyclingNut wrote:In retrospect, I have to say a well-rounded education includes all the basic competencies:
Moral Reasoning (philosophy and/or world religions),
Quantitative Reasoning (math, math, and more math; if you can't do math then you really haven't given it an honest try),
Physical Education (actual education--not just bullying a bunch of kids about one hour several days a week, but required participation in a sport),
Language (your own and one foreign),
Social Science (History, Political Theory, or Sociology), and
Science (one Physical Science and one Natural Science).

I find that an odd list -- or at least, an oddly worded one.

Moral Reasoning? - I find little reasoning (from verifiable premises) in either philosophy or religion. And little morality in the subsequent behaviour of believers.

Social Science? - Where's the Science in history, political theories or sociology? Legitimate fields of study, all. But science?

Science (one Physical Science and one Natural Science). - The distinction escapes me.

I would add Logic. It's implied by Math and used by Science and other fields, but it really needs to be formally taught all through school. Logic is the key that will unlock the universe -- and ourselves if we only let it.

Rob

rstevenson wrote:I would add Logic. It's implied by Math and used by Science and other fields, but it really needs to be formally taught all through school. Logic is the key that will unlock the universe -- and ourselves if we only let it.

Rob

I asked my son the same question I posed here and Logic was number one on his list; he thinks it should be required of all high school students. (He took Logic at CTY, not in high school.) Even earlier and throughout would be better!

(Number two on his list was political thought; I thought that an interesting choice.)

wow owlice, I thought you were a bit younger.

makc, if it weren't for my knees, I would, too!

makc wrote:wow owlice, I thought you were a bit younger.

You can't say that I didn't try, owlice.

lol, neufer!! You made a valiant effort, indeed!!