Starship Asterisk*

Darwin truly did begin some important thought processes.

As stars and their solar systems spiral slowly towards and then into a Black Hole's gravity well time slows, but evolutionary processes proceed (or appear to proceed given current knowledge) at their normal rates. Thus .. life forms on those planets would have great lengths of time, near infinite, in which to evolve. Such evolution could bring about beings who could switch their makeup between matter and energy (it has been said on this forum that there is no difference between the matter and energy). Those beings would be free to travel unhindered, or nearly unhindered, throughout the universe.

I think I hear the Moody Blues again.

apodman wrote:I think I hear the Moody Blues again.

Its just a 60s flash back. Ignore it. Unless it involves coloured oils on water, in which case invite me in.

Rob

mishkin wrote: As stars and their solar systems spiral slowly towards and then into a Black Hole's gravity well time slows, but evolutionary processes proceed (or appear to proceed given current knowledge) at their normal rates.

If living beings were headed toward a black hole they themselves would experience time like nothing had changed, but to outside observers they would appear to slow down at the same rate as anything else that went with them. The atoms slow down, thus the biological functions slow, ect. Of course, they'd eventually fall beyond the event horizon and die quite terribly if they weren't torn to shreds by tidal forces before that. Yeah, I think black holes would be the worst influence imaginable on the evolution of life!

G'day

Why do people see so called black holes as if they are actually holes? Is it the movies?

The infinite point, being a singularity does not exist. So! what is reality?

A compact matter with a density (greater than Nucelar matter) of some form that is able to form trappng horizons.

That being so the vector fields entering such a compact object would entrap EMR and therefore the communication time.

Being finite matter also allows it to spin and help in the formation of jets from Compact matter in stars to AGN in not only centre of galaxies but the centre of clusters of galaxies.

The information that supports such ideas is found in google, arXiv and ADS (NASA).

harry wrote:Why do people see so called black holes as if they are actually holes? Is it the movies?.

Why do you continue to think that, although EMR and massless particles (photons) cannot escape a black hole, particles with mass can? Illogical!

Orca wrote:

mishkin wrote: As stars and their solar systems spiral slowly towards and then into a Black Hole's gravity well time slows, but evolutionary processes proceed (or appear to proceed given current knowledge) at their normal rates.

If living beings were headed toward a black hole they themselves would experience time like nothing had changed, but to outside observers they would appear to slow down at the same rate as anything else that went with them. The atoms slow down, thus the biological functions slow, ect. Of course, they'd eventually fall beyond the event horizon and die quite terribly if they weren't torn to shreds by tidal forces before that. Yeah, I think black holes would be the worst influence imaginable on the evolution of life!

I'm sorry Mr. Orca but you are quite wrong of course, but understandably you would think so the way you do being a western scientist I can only assume from 'Orca' being a western term. Time itself is separate from matter and space .. the atoms proceed as if time does not exist while time is slowed by the gravity so that the necessary and natural evolution into energetic life forms progresses quite naturally. Energy cannot be destroyed, so therefore, as matter and energy are the same, matter also cannot be destroyed, only changed, so that matter approaching a black hole will not be torn apart as if a cataclysm, the processes will be so gentle as to be artistic, yes, like oil (but not crude oil of course) on water as one of your own here says, or like an artist with a gentle hand, as in the Hermitage in my home St. Petersburg you will see many such examples of artistic beauty. Ah .. to return to St. Petersburg when my tenure here is done. Soon. Meanwhile, I suffer the waiting.

harry wrote:G'day

Why do people see so called black holes as if they are actually holes? Is it the movies?

The infinite point, being a singularity does not exist. So! what is reality?

A compact matter with a density (greater than Nucelar matter) of some form that is able to form trappng horizons.

Ultimately, what lies within the event horizon is "off limits" to observation, so I guess singularities only actually exist in our equations, the end result is the same, right?

1. I'm sorry Mr. Orca but you are quite wrong of course, but understandably you would think so the way you do being a western scientist I can only assume from 'Orca' being a western term.

2. Time itself is separate from matter and space .. the atoms proceed as if time does not exist while time is slowed by the gravity so that the necessary and natural evolution into energetic life forms progresses quite naturally.

3. Energy cannot be destroyed, so therefore, as matter and energy are the same, matter also cannot be destroyed, only changed, so that matter approaching a black hole will not be torn apart as if a cataclysm,

4. the processes will be so gentle as to be artistic, yes, like oil (but not crude oil of course) on water as one of your own here says, or like an artist with a gentle hand, as in the Hermitage in my home St. Petersburg you will see many such examples of artistic beauty. Ah .. to return to St. Petersburg when my tenure here is done. Soon. Meanwhile, I suffer the waiting.

1. If you mean "Western" to say "the world scientific community," well sure. But then, as I let out an enormous sigh, this is a scientific message board, which could be said to be a "western science-based" board if you like. But hey, the beauty of math is that it is the same regardless of your cultural background or belief system.

2.This view was acceptable in Newton's day. Relativity has given us a different picture of the universe; time dilation has been verified many, many, many times.

3. "Matter is not created or destroyed" should really be stated "Energy is conserved." When I said that people who fall into black holes are torn apart by tidal forces, I didn't mean to say thier constituent energy content vanishes from the universe. However, the structure we refer to as a "human body" would certainly be destroyed!

4. Black holes are among the most violent and destructive objects we know of. Beautiful, peacefully spinning vortexes sound cool but don't reflect observation.

I know little of St. Petersburg. I am curious now though; I'll look it up. It might just get added to my ever-growing lists of places I want to see.

While you're there, check out Tampa.

apodman wrote:While you're there, check out Tampa.

Wrong continent, I think, aka Leningrad

The two destinations have been secretly stealing each other's unwitting tourists for years (1914-91 excepted).

G'day orca

What happens within a trapping Horizon is not actually off limits.

There are a flood of papers in the last few years on the subject with equations of states.

You can search arXiv in reference to astrophysics or even wiki
Higgs Boson
Degeneracy
Solitons
Kaon Condensation
Just to mention a few.

one more Trapping Horizons

Orca wrote:
I know little of St. Petersburg. I am curious now though; I'll look it up. It might just get added to my ever-growing lists of places I want to see.

Presently is hottest tourist destination for Europe. When you come we will share some wodka, yes! Will show you our science complex where we transmute lead into diamonds. Marvellous. But first I have a lawsuit to organize, as it seems your Louisiana is this fake Lada. "Louisiana Automobile Dealers Association LADA accepts no responsibility for decisions made by the user in regards to acting upon any content within these pages. While LADA makes every effort to present accurate ..."

As far as Relativity .. time dilation indeed, so 'yesterday' as your western young people say.

G'day

Modern cosmology thinking is coming out of St. Petersburg University.

I have ben reading many papers from them and reality seems to be the theme.

Next Year I will be visiting the city.

I think I've figured out that mishkin is an AI specifically programed to use English terribly so that we forgive his logical flaws and figure him as a real person.

geckzilla wrote:I think I've figured out that mishkin is an AI specifically programed to use English terribly so that we forgive his logical flaws and figure him as a real person.

Are you saying he fails the Turing test?

Well, yeah, maybe a number of people on this board do, actually.

geckzilla wrote:I think I've figured out that mishkin is an AI specifically programed to use English terribly so that we forgive his logical flaws and figure him as a real person.

"GREETINGS HUMANS. I AM THE PSEUDO-TRON 2000."

G'day Orca

Love the PSEUDO-TRON

The word reminds me of the movie " Tron" The comp game movie.

Orca wrote:

geckzilla wrote:I think I've figured out that mishkin is an AI specifically programed to use English terribly so that we forgive his logical flaws and figure him as a real person.

"GREETINGS HUMANS. I AM THE PSEUDO-TRON 2000."

Ah, so sad am I to be compared to a robert (forgive me my misspelling, a robot). Be thankful I am sad, for if were I to become angry I would beam my mind womper at you. (Hope for you the little red light atop the head does not 'on'.)

'Touring Test'? I do have a difficult time at aeroports.

Perhaps Mishkin is a new Pseudonym for Sputnick of times past.

I have to wonder why someone would mis-spell a word in a post then correct the mis-spelling pointing out the error prior to actually submitting the post

mishkin wrote:(SNIP)

Ah, so sad am I to be compared to a robert (forgive me my misspelling, a robot). Be thankful I am sad, for if were I to become angry I would beam my mind womper at you. (Hope for you the little red light atop the head does not 'on'.)

'Touring Test'? I do have a difficult time at aeroports.

BMAONE23 wrote:I have to wonder why someone would mis-spell a word in a post then correct the mis-spelling pointing out the error prior to actually submitting the post

Yes, I found that quite odd, myself. Perhaps equally as baffling is that our esteemed Professor Emeritus doesn't seem to know what a Turing test is.

bystander wrote:

BMAONE23 wrote:I have to wonder why someone would mis-spell a word in a post then correct the mis-spelling pointing out the error prior to actually submitting the post

Yes, I found that quite odd, myself. Perhaps equally as baffling is that our esteemed Professor Emeritus doesn't seem to know what a Turing test is.

Well, you know, some things are knew since I retired. But thank you for you esteemation.

mishkin wrote:Well, you know, some things are knew since I retired. But thank you for you esteemation.

You retired before 1950? You must really be old. And aren't you supposed to be on tenure from St. Petersburg Accademy of Astrophysics, Cosmology, Song and Dance in Ottawa?

bystander wrote:

mishkin wrote:Well, you know, some things are knew since I retired. But thank you for you esteemation.

You retired before 1950? You must really be old. And aren't you supposed to be on tenure from St. Petersburg Accademy of Astrophysics, Cosmology, Song and Dance in Ottawa?

Perhaps I meant tenuous .. when one gets so old one forgots many things, but becomes aware of fragility .. youngsters come along and kick out the crutch from under, terrible.