"Portara" (2009 March 20)

[JohnD]

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090320.html

Beautiful, sophisticated photograph.
Simplistic text, giving the translation of "Portara" as 'big door'.
Hmmmmmm. On Sesame Street maybe.

πόρτα ('porta')is a door in Greek. The suffix has no 'big' meaning.
Instead, it is the past tense of the verb 'to carry'.
"Portara" means, in Greek or Latin , "It/he/she has carried", as this structure has carried itself through the centuries.
"The Load Bearer" would seem to be a more appropriate translation.
Any Greek speakers here, who may have more authority on this?

John

[jimmysnyder]

It's impressive that they were able to take a picture of the equinox in June.

[bystander]

It's impressive that they were able to take a picture of the equinox in June.

I see no where in the APOD text that this is a picture of the equinox, although I can see how one might be misdirected.

See also:

http://www.twanight.org/newTWAN/photos.asp?ID=3001494
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/gree ... ortara.htm

[orin stepanek]

Looks like all those shutter bugs are looking directly into the sun! I hope they are wearing eye protection!

Orin

[aristarchusinexile]

Spring Ode From an Aeeging and Anon Guy

"Spring has sprung,
the grass is riz;
I wonder where
the birdies iz?"

[neufer]

------------------------------------
Haft Sīn or the seven 'S's is a major tradition of Nowruz. The haft sin table includes seven specific items starting with the letter 'S' or Sīn (س) in Persian alphabet). The items symbolically correspond to seven creations and holy immortals protecting them. The Haft Sin has evolved over time, but has kept its symbolism. Traditionally, families attempt to set as beautiful a Haft Sīn table as they can, as it is not only of traditional and spiritual value, but also noticed by visitors during Nowruzi visitations and is a reflection of their good taste.
................................................
The Haft Sīn items are:

* sabzeh - wheat, barley or lentil sprouts growing in a dish - symbolizing rebirth

* samanu - a sweet pudding made from wheat germ - symbolizing affluence

* senjed - the dried fruit of the oleaster tree - symbolizing love

* sīr - garlic - symbolizing medicine

* sīb - apples - symbolizing beauty and health

* somaq - sumac berries - symbolizing (the color of) sunrise

* serkeh - vinegar - symbolizing age and patience
-----------------------------------
Other items on the table may include:

* decorated eggs, sometimes one for each member of the family (fertility)

* a bowl of water with goldfish (life within life, and the sign of Pisces which the sun is leaving)

* a mirror (symbolizing cleanness and honesty)
------------------------------------------------------

The Conference of the Birds
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

<<The Conference of the Birds (Persian: منطق الطیر, Mantiq at-Tayr, 1177) is a book of poems in Persian by Farid ud-Din Attar of approximately 4500 lines. The poem uses a journey by a group of 30 birds, led by a hoopoe as an allegory of a Sufi sheikh or master leading his pupils to enlightenment. Besides being one of the most beautiful examples of Persian poetry, this book relies on a clever word play between the words Simorgh — a mysterious bird in Iranian mythology which is a symbol often found in sufi literature, and similar to the phoenix bird — and "si morgh" — meaning "thirty birds" in Persian.

. It was in China, late one moonless night,
. The Simorgh first appeared to human sight -
. He let a feather float down through the air,
. And rumours of its fame spread everywhere;

Its most famous section is:

. Come you lost Atoms to your Centre draw,
. And be the Eternal Mirror that you saw:
. Rays that have wander'd into Darkness wide
. Return and back into your Sun subside

In the 1970s, the poem was adapted into a play by Peter Brook and Jean-Claude Carrière (called The Conference of The Birds), which Brook took touring around the wilds of Africa before presenting two extremely successful productions to a Western audience, one in New York City at La MaMa, E.T.C. and one in Paris.

The story recounts the longing of a group of birds who desire to know the great Simorgh, and who under the guidance of a leader bird start their journey toward the land of Simorgh. One by one, they drop out of the journey, each offering an excuse and unable to endure the journey. Each bird has a special significance, and a corresponding didactic fault. The guiding bird is the hoopoe, while the nightingale symbolizes the lover. The parrot is seeking the fountain of immortality, not god and the peacock symbolizes the "fallen soul" who is in alliance with Satan.

The birds must cross seven valleys in order to find the Simorgh: Aban (Flash), Ishq (Love), Marifat (Gnosis), Istighnah (Detachment), Tawheed (Unity of God), Hayrat (Bewilderment) and, finally, Fuqur and Fana (Selflessness and Oblivion in God). These represent the stations that a Sufi or any individual must pass through to realize the true nature of God.

Within the larger context of the story of the journey of the birds, Attar masterfully tells the reader many didactic short, sweet stories in captivating poetic style. Eventually only thirty birds remain as they finally arrive in the land of Simorgh — all they see there are each other and the reflection of the thirty birds in a lake — not the mythical Simorgh. It is the Sufi doctrine that God is not external or separate from the universe, rather is the totality of existence. The thirty birds seeking the Simorgh realise that Simorgh is nothing more than their transcendent totality. The idea of God within is an idea intrinsic to most interpretations of Sufism dating back to the roots of Islam and can be found throughout the Qu'ran. As the birds realize the truth, they now reach the station of Baqa (Subsistence) which sits atop the Mountain Qaf.>>
----------------------------------------

[Indigo_Sunrise]

The Conference of the Birds
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

<<The Conference of the Birds (Persian: منطق الطیر, Mantiq at-Tayr, 1177) is a book of poems in Persian by Farid ud-Din Attar of approximately 4500 lines. The poem uses a journey by a group of 30 birds, led by a hoopoe as an allegory of a Sufi sheikh or master leading his pupils to enlightenment. Besides being one of the most beautiful examples of Persian poetry, this book relies on a clever word play between the words Simorgh — a mysterious bird in Iranian mythology which is a symbol often found in sufi literature, and similar to the phoenix bird — and "si morgh" — meaning "thirty birds" in Persian.

etc.


While I can understand the 'Wiki'-quoted part of your post in relation to today's APOD, since it's included in a link in the description, what does the rest of all that have to do with it? I don't even see what you included listed under the 'Reference' section of that particular 'Wiki'-page.......

[geckzilla]

I always wondered if neufer participates in conversations in real life the same way he does here by opening encyclopedias and reading them aloud or grabbing an old term paper and reciting an excerpt from it rather than just...you know, talking. Heh.

[neufer]

The Conference of the Birds
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

<<The Conference of the Birds (Persian: منطق الطیر, Mantiq at-Tayr, 1177) is a book of poems in Persian by Farid ud-Din Attar of approximately 4500 lines. The poem uses a journey by a group of 30 birds, led by a hoopoe as an allegory of a SUFI sheikh or master leading his pupils to enlightenment. Besides being one of the most beautiful examples of Persian poetry, this book relies on a clever word play between the words Simorgh — a mysterious bird in Iranian mythology which is a symbol often found in sufi literature, and similar to the phoenix bird — and "si morgh" — meaning "thirty birds" in Persian.

While I can understand the 'Wiki'-quoted part of your post in relation to today's APOD, since it's included in a link in the description, what does the rest of all that have to do with it? I don't even see what you included listed under the 'Reference' section of that particular 'Wiki'-page.......

I was reading in the Washington Post today about the Persian (Iranian) celebration of Nowruz and the goldfish rush in Tehran :

Tehran Puts Urban Spin On Rural Rite of Spring
By Thomas Erdbrink
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, March 20, 2009; Page A12

TEHRAN, March 19 -- Marjam Mohammadi, a Tehran housewife, was haggling over a goldfish. Virtually everyone in the shopping center needed goldfish to celebrate Nowruz, the Iranian new year, which comes at the beginning of spring.

and then I saw the golden sunset in http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090320.html.

Persia, Nowruz mirrors, and pools of water all reminded me of
_The Conference of the Birds_
which seemed more worthy of reading than most of the StUfF I post.

----------------------------------------------------
<<'Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi (Persian: عبدالرحمن صوفی; December 7, 903 – May 25, 986) was a Persian astronomer also known as 'Abd ar-Rahman as-Sufi and known in the west as Azophi; the lunar crater Azophi and the minor planet 12621 Alsufi are named after him. Al-Sufi published his famous Book of Fixed Stars in 964, describing much of his work, both in textual descriptions and pictures. He lived at the court of Emir Adud ad-Daula in Isfahan, Persia, and worked on translating and expanding Greek astronomical works, especially the Almagest of Ptolemy. He contributed several corrections to Ptolemy's star list and did his own brightness and magnitude estimates which frequently deviated from those in Ptolemy's work. He was a major translator into Arabic of the Hellenistic astronomy that had been centred in Alexandria, the first to attempt to relate the Greek with the traditional Arabic star names and constellations, which were completely unrelated and overlapped in complicated ways.

He identified the Large Magellanic Cloud, which is visible from Yemen, though not from Isfahan; it was not seen by Europeans until Magellan's voyage in the 16th century. He also made the earliest recorded observation of the Andromeda Galaxy in 964 AD; describing it as a "small cloud". He observed that the ecliptic plane is inclined with respect to the celestial equator and more accurately calculated the length of the tropical year. He observed and described the stars, their positions, their magnitudes and their colour, setting out his results constellation by constellation. For each constellation, he provided two drawings, one from the outside of a celestial globe, and the other from the inside (as seen from the earth).

Al-Sufi also first described over 1000 different uses of an astrolabe, in areas as diverse as astronomy, astrology, horoscopes, navigation, surveying, timekeeping, Qibla, Salah prayer, etc.
................................
Sufi Observing Competition

Since 2006, Astronomy Society of Iran – Amateur Committee (ASIAC) hold an international Sufi Observing Competition in the memory of Sufi. The first competition was held in 2006 in the north of Semnan Province and the 2nd SUFI observing competition was held in summer of 2008 in Ladiz near the Zahedan. More than 100 observers from Iran and Iraq participated in this event.
----------------------------------------------

[neufer]

I always wondered if neufer participates in conversations in real life the same way he does here by opening encyclopedias and reading them aloud or grabbing an old term paper and reciting an excerpt from it rather than just...you know, talking. Heh.

"REAL LIFE?" What's that

[aristarchusinexile]

I always wondered if neufer participates in conversations in real life the same way he does here by opening encyclopedias and reading them aloud or grabbing an old term paper and reciting an excerpt from it rather than just...you know, talking. Heh.

"REAL LIFE?" What's that

Yeah, man, like, local real life or non-local? Either way, thanks for being Neuf, Neuf.

[neufer]

I always wondered if neufer participates in conversations in real life the same way he does here by opening encyclopedias and reading them aloud or grabbing an old term paper and reciting an excerpt from it rather than just...you know, talking. Heh.

"REAL LIFE?" What's that

Yeah, man, like, local real life or non-local? Either way, thanks for being Neuf, Neuf.

[list]. The sufi opens his hands to the universe
. and gives away each instant, free.
. Unlike someone who begs on the street
. for money to survive,
. a dervish begs to give you his life.[/list][/color]

[Ayiomamitis]

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090320.html

Beautiful, sophisticated photograph.
Simplistic text, giving the translation of "Portara" as 'big door'.
Hmmmmmm. On Sesame Street maybe.

πόρτα ('porta')is a door in Greek. The suffix has no 'big' meaning.
Instead, it is the past tense of the verb 'to carry'.
"Portara" means, in Greek or Latin , "It/he/she has carried", as this structure has carried itself through the centuries.
"The Load Bearer" would seem to be a more appropriate translation.
Any Greek speakers here, who may have more authority on this?

John

John,

Glad you like the photo!

Surrounding the word "Portara", please rest assured it means "big door". The suffix "ara" is used to exaggerate the "bigness" or "greatness" of something whereas "aki" is used to emphasize the "smallness" or "insignificance" of something.

The word for "automobile" in greek is "autokinito" (auto = automated/self and kinito = moving/mover) ... if I were impressed with your car, I would say "autokinitara" (vis a vis "now, this is an awesome car"). At the same time, if I wanted to downplay your car, I would say "autokinitaki" and which also refers to a toy car used by children.

Anthony.

[aristarchusinexile]

John,

Glad you like the photo!

Surrounding the word "Portara", please rest assured it means "big door". The suffix "ara" is used to exaggerate the "bigness" or "greatness" of something whereas "aki" is used to emphasize the "smallness" or "insignificance" of something.

The word for "automobile" in greek is "autokinito" (auto = automated/self and kinito = moving/mover) ... if I were impressed with your car, I would say "autokinitara" (vis a vis "now, this is an awesome car"). At the same time, if I wanted to downplay your car, I would say "autokinitaki" and which also refers to a toy car used by children.

Anthony.

Anthony, does your definition of the suffix "ara" equate large size or power with awsomeness or greatness? (That is the human tendency of course.) Or can a small car which, for instance, gets 120 miles per gallon considered "ara"? I, in answering my question according to the primitive side of human nature, can see where the average Nascar racing buff might consider the small,120 mpg car 'autokinitaki', where the Nascar engineer looking for the most energy per quantity of fuel might consider the small car 'autokinitara'. What exactly does the suffix "ara" define, or is its definition open to interpretation? Is there a suffix strictly for "large"?

[Ayiomamitis]

Anthony, does your definition of the suffix "ara" equate large size or power with awsomeness or greatness? (That is the human tendency of course.) Or can a small car which, for instance, gets 120 miles per gallon considered "ara"? I, in answering my question according to the primitive side of human nature, can see where the average Nascar racing buff might consider the small,120 mpg car 'autokinitaki', where the Nascar engineer looking for the most energy per quantity of fuel might consider the small car 'autokinitara'. What exactly does the suffix "ara" define, or is its definition open to interpretation? Is there a suffix strictly for "large"?

In general, it is related to something physical. Want to brag about your house? "spitara" ... want to downplay your neighbour's humble home? "spitaki. Want to describe a big-breasted woman? "---ares" ... a small-breasted woman? "---akia" (plural form in both of these latter cases.

I can think of non-physical examples but it takes some work to come up with them (ex. a "small" brain to reflect poor thinking) since they are primarily used for physical descriptions.

I should point out that the reference to "big door" in the APOD text should not be blamed on Dr Bonnell (assuming there is blame to pass around) since it is something I included in my submission. To to this end, if there were any problem with its reference (and there isn't), it is all my fault.

Finally, in relation to the other comment about equinox vs solstice, I also fail to see the logic behind this criticism. The text surrounding equinox in the APOD had the sun as a reference point and which was accompanied by a photo of the sun setting. I fail to see how when the photo was taken could be used as a criticism. For all you know, I could have lied (theoretically) and claimed the photo was taken during last year's spring equinox and few would be able to tell otherwise (of course, one could show it was not by looking at the azimuth of the setting sun in the photo vs that of the setting sun at equinox ).

Anthony.

[Indigo_Sunrise]

Mr. Anthony Ayiomamitis,
Thank you for the short lesson in Greek - pretty fascinating!

Also, as far as this:

in relation to the other comment about equinox vs solstice, I also fail to see the logic behind this criticism.

All one really had to do was to read the description through to the end, where it stated that the image was taken in June of last year, to know that it wasn't actually an equinox image.

I've visited your site, having seen some of your images featured previously here at APOD, and really enjoy it. Especially those in sort of 'time-lapse' - analemmas, eclipses, et al. Nice work!

[aristarchusinexile]

Mr. Anthony Ayiomamitis,
Thank you for the short lesson in Greek - pretty fascinating!

Yes, Thanks .. it's just too bad that humans have been 'programmed' to think 'big' physically relates to 'awesome' and other superlatives, when nature teaches otherwise. I saw a spring mating fight between two male sparrows, and the big one was the winner; but the female, who had chosen/been chosen (by) the small male beat the crap out of the big sparrow who flew of in a big hurry, and she flew up to her small mate and tried to comfort him. Of course his feathers had been ruffled and he hopped away, and she sat patiently waiting his realization that she really did want to continue their courtship despite his small size compared to the big guy. This example shows that the old saying "survival of the fittest" does not arise in nature,
and I suspect it has been promoted so heavily in our world as a means of military enlistment .. marching bands, big feathers in caps, etc.

[Ayiomamitis]

Gentlemen,

I have been trying to think of examples in the English language and, perhaps, the best I can come up with are "statue" and "statuette". With this example, we have added a suffix to the end of the base word to implicitly suggest (smaller) size.

In English, we typically use adjectives such as big and small to emphasize size and this is also common in Greek (megalo, mikro) but, for the latter, we also have other ways to accomplish the same using suffixes.

Anyway, I apologize for beating this thing into the ground.

Clear skies!

[aristarchusinexile]

Gentlemen,

I have been trying to think of examples in the English language and, perhaps, the best I can come up with are "statue" and "statuette". With this example, we have added a suffix to the end of the base word to implicitly suggest (smaller) size.

In English, we typically use adjectives such as big and small to emphasize size and this is also common in Greek (megalo, mikro) but, for the latter, we also have other ways to accomplish the same using suffixes.

Anyway, I apologize for beating this thing into the ground.

Clear skies!

Not the least need to apologize. This is educational and interesting, especially as it continues to reveal mankind's emphasis on large size as indicating power - we don't say "That person's a smallshot in business", we say, "Bigshot", whereas Anita Eckberg might be called "statuesque".