APOD: Methane Discovered in Mars Atmosphere (2009 Jan 19)

[neufer]

all-hail ME'THANE of Nili Fossae

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090119.html
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. Macbeth: Act I, Scene v

[Enter LADY MACBETH, reading a letter]

LADY MACBETH: 'They met me in the day of success: and I have
. learned by the perfectest report, they have more in
. them than mortal knowledge. When I burned in desire
. to question them further, they made themselves air,
. into which they vanished. Whiles I stood rapt in
. the wonder of it, came missives from the king, who
. all-hailed ME'THANE of Cawdor;' by which title,
. before, these weird sisters saluted me,
.................................................
. Macbeth: Act Ii, Scene iii
.
Porter: ...it makes him, and it MARS him; it sets
. him on, and it takes him off; it persuades him,
. and disheartens him; makes him stand to, and
. not stand to; in conclusion, equivocates him
. in a sleep, and, giving him the lie, leaves him.

[Nancy D]

If there are microbes on Mars, I think we should stay away. The thought of bringing home some new microbes is really scary.

[Dr. Skeptic]

If there are microbes on Mars, I think we should stay away. The thought of bringing home some new microbes is really scary.

It's OK, unmanned rovers don't get sick.

[Chris Peterson]

If there are microbes on Mars, I think we should stay away. The thought of bringing home some new microbes is really scary.

If there are microbes on Mars, they've already been brought here. Too many pieces of Mars have been knocked off and ended up on Earth over the eons for that not to have happened. And it continues to happen.

If there is life, it either shares a common origin with Earth life, in which case there might be some concern. Or, it has an independent origin, in which case it seems extremely unlikely to pose any risk.

[Chris Peterson]

It's OK, unmanned rovers don't get sick.

Guess you never read The Andromeda Strain. Just wait until those puppies mutate through their silicon eating phase... <g>

[Dr. Skeptic]

It's OK, unmanned rovers don't get sick.

Guess you never read The Andromeda Strain. Just wait until those puppies mutate through their silicon eating phase... <g>

Yikeees! I withdraw my statement.

[neufer]

It's OK, unmanned rovers don't get sick.

Guess you never read The Andromeda Strain. Just wait until those puppies mutate through their silicon eating phase... <g>

Yikeees! I withdraw my statement.

<< SILANE is a chemical compound with chemical formula SiH4. It is the silicon analogue of METHANE.

At room temperature, silane is a gas, and is pyrophoric — it undergoes spontaneous combustion
in air, without the need for external ignition. Silane has a repulsive smell.

"MARS SAND" exposes regular sand to trimethylhydroxysilane vapors to make the sand waterproof.>>

The Andromeda Strain is already HERE and is being marketed by Nickelodeon and Mattel as Sqand

<<
MARS SAND, Space Sand or Sqand, is a special type of hydrophobic sand. It can be blue, green, or red in color. Magic Sand was originally developed to trap ocean oil spills near the shore. This would be done by sprinkling Magic Sand on floating petroleum, which would then mix with the oil and make it heavy enough to sink. However, due to the expense of production, it is not being used for this purpose. It has also been tested by utility companies in the Arctic areas as a foundation for junction boxes, as it never freezes. It can be also used as an aerating medium for potted plants.

Due to its water repellence, grains of the sand will adhere to each other in the presence of water. When sprinkling grains onto the surface of water, they will at first form a "sand raft," until the weight of the agglomerate is large enough to break the surface tension. The mass will then sink to the bottom as a single object. When immersed, the sand forms columns in order to reduce the surface area in contact with water. As soon as the sand is taken out of water, it is completely dry and flows freely.

Though blue, green, or red in color, immersed columns of magic sand appear silvery because of a layer of air that forms around the sand.

These properties are achieved by covering ordinary beach sand with tiny particles of pure silica and exposing them to vapors of trimethylsilanol (CH3)3SiOH, an organosilicon compound. Upon exposure, the trimethylsilane compound bonds to the silica particles while forming water. The exteriors of the sand grains are thus coated with hydrophobic groups.>>

[aristarchusinexile]

If microbes on Mars successfully come to earth perhaps they will bring with them true intelligence to replace the mental inactivities currently classified as intelligence here on this pitiful and absurd planet .. example, "Wow Man .. Dr. Who's been feeding pork and beans to his Martian harem again." Oh wait, that's a positive example, here's another, 'The button has been pushed .. the rocket has been launched .. the warhead is on its way.'

[aristarchusinexile]

Scientific American, May/07 - Methane on Mars and Titan - on Mars "Aquifiers below the ice would provide a habitat for creatures or a venue for the hydrochemical (Black Smokers) production of methane." Black Smokers in earth's oceans produce both methane and sustain large populations of creatures.

'On earth, 90-95 percent of methane is biologic in origin. Volcanoes contribute less than 0.2% of earth's methane, and that amount may simply be venting methane created by organisms in the past.'

''Possibilities for methane creation on Mars are low temperature serpentinization in aquifiers. (black Smokers). 'Another possibility are organisms known as methanogens which produce methane as they consume hydrogen, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide.'

Methane seems to declare the verdict .. that there is life on Mars .. which comes as no surprise whatsoever. Further, the presence of methane on Titan, in far larger abundance, seems to declare life on Titan as well.

[neufer]

If microbes on Mars successfully come to earth perhaps they will bring with them true intelligence to replace the mental inactivities currently classified as intelligence here on this pitiful and absurd planet ..'

'Bring Them On' Bush Says as Iraqi Attackers Prolong War
by Michael Howard in Falluja and Julian Borger in Washington
Published on Thursday, July 3, 2003 by the Guardian/UK
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0703-01.htm

<<President Bush yesterday taunted the Iraqi groups waging a guerrilla war against US and British troops, saying "bring them on" and vowing that the coalition would not be forced into an early departure.

President George W. Bush pauses while announcing the U.S. military will not leave Iraq because of the influence of any hostile forces while in the Roosevelt Room of the White House, July 2, 2003. Bush challenged militants who have been killing and injuring U.S. forces in Iraq. The gesture of presidential bravado came amid declining public enthusiasm for military involvement in Iraq as American casualties continue to mount long after Mr Bush declared the war over.

The US has lost 196 soldiers in combat or accidents since going to war, a third of them since the president's victory speech on board the USS Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier on May 1. The troops have recently come under near daily attack from groups loyal to Saddam or simply opposed to the occupation. The tension rose yesterday in Falluja, west of Baghdad, where residents accused US forces of bombing a mosque and vowed revenge, despite American denials and claims that the mosque was a bomb-making factory.

"There are some who feel that if they attack us we may decide to leave prematurely. They don't understand what they're talking about, if that's the case," Mr Bush told journalists at the White House. "My answer is bring them on. We got the force necessary to deal with the security situation.">>

[Chris Peterson]

Methane seems to declare the verdict .. that there is life on Mars .. which comes as no surprise whatsoever. Further, the presence of methane on Titan, in far larger abundance, seems to declare life on Titan as well.

Biological processes are only one possible explanation for the presence of CH4 on Mars. It's certainly intriguing, but hardly reaches the level of "verdict" at this point.

Methane is much easier to explain on Titan without requiring life. In the outer solar system, CH4 is the major repository of carbon (as compared with CO2 in the inner system). This is a consequence of the hydrogen rich environment in which outer bodies formed. Methane is relatively abundant in a number of outer moons, as well as in comets. In the case of Titan, there is a very nice model for the behavior of methane in its atmosphere that agrees well with Huygens and other data. The rate that methane is destroyed in Titan's atmosphere is much slower than on Mars. Nevertheless, the model predicts that the methane concentration on Titan is decreasing; however, we don't yet have good enough measurements to confirm this.

[neufer]

Scientific American, May/07 - Methane on Mars and Titan - on Mars "Aquifiers below the ice would provide a habitat for creatures or a venue for the hydrochemical (Black Smokers) production of methane." Black Smokers in earth's oceans produce both methane and sustain large populations of creatures.

'On earth, 90-95 percent of methane is biologic in origin. Volcanoes contribute less than 0.2% of earth's methane, and that amount may simply be venting methane created by organisms in the past.'

''Possibilities for methane creation on Mars are low temperature serpentinization in aquifiers. (black Smokers). 'Another possibility are organisms known as methanogens which produce methane as they consume hydrogen, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide.'

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060721.html
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<<Methanopyrusis a genus of methanogen, with a single described species, M. kandleri. It is a hyperthermophile, discovered on the wall of a black smoker from the Gulf of California at a depth of 2000 m, at temperatures of 84-110 °C. Strain 116 discovered in black smoker fluid of the Kairei hydrothermal field, it can survive and reproduce at 122 °C. It lives in an hydrogen-carbon dioxide rich environment, and like other methanogens reduces the former to methane.>>

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The electron microscope revealed chain structures in meteorite fragment ALH84001


<<On August 6, ALH 84001 became newsworthy when it was announced that the meteorite may contain evidence for traces of life from Mars, as published in an article in Science by David McKay of NASA.

Under the scanning electron microscope structures were revealed that may be the remains—in the form of fossils—of bacteria-like lifeforms. The structures found on ALH 84001 are 20-100 nanometres in diameter, similar in size to the theoretical nanobacteria, but smaller than any known cellular life at the time of their discovery. If the structures are really fossilized lifeforms, they would be the first solid evidence of the existence of extraterrestrial life, aside from the chance of their origin being terrestrial contamination.

Recent studies on ALH 84001 have shown that, although chances are low, eventually, Martian rocks such as ALH 84001 could actually transfer Martian life to Earth. Bacterial spores, and rock dwelling organisms are speculated to survive in space for 5 years, meaning transfer of Martian life to our planet is theoretically possible.

In September 2005, Vicky Hamilton of the University of Hawaii at Manoa presented an analysis of the origin of ALH 84001 using data from the Mars Global Surveyor and Mars Odyssey spacecraft orbiting Mars. According to the analysis, Eos Chasma in the Valles Marineris canyon appears to be the source of the meteorite.>>
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<<Methanogens are archaea that produce methane as a metabolic byproduct in anoxic conditions. They are common in wetlands, where they are responsible for marsh gas, and in the guts of animals such as ruminants and humans, where they are responsible for the methane content of flatulence. In marine sediments biomethanation is generally confined to where sulfates are depleted, below the top layers. Others are extremophiles, found in environments such as hot springs and submarine hydrothermal vents as well as in the "solid" rock of the earth's crust, kilometers below the surface.
.
. Physical description
.
Methanogens are usually coccoid or rod shaped. There are over 50 described species of methanogens, which do not form a monophyletic group, although all methanogens belong to Euryarchaeota. Methanogens are also anaerobic. Although methanogens cannot function under aerobic conditions they can sustain oxygen stresses for prolonged times.
.
An exception is Methanosarcina barkeri, which contains a superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme and may survive longer. Some, called hydrogenotrophic, use carbon dioxide (CO2) as a source of carbon, and hydrogen as a reducing agent. Some of the CO2 is reacted with the hydrogen to produce methane, which produces an electrochemical gradient across a membrane, used to generate ATP through chemiosmosis. In contrast, plants and algae use water as their reducing agent.
.
Methanogens lack a polymer that is found in the cell walls of other prokaryotes. Some methanogens have a cell wall that is composed of pseudomurein. Other methanogens that don't have a pseudomurein have at least one paracrystalline array (S-layer) which is made up of proteins that fit together like a puzzle.
.
. Methanogens and environments
.
Although most marine biogenic methane is the result of CO2 reduction, a small amount is derived from acetate (CH3COO-). Methanogens play the vital ecological role in anaerobic environments of removing excess hydrogen and fermentation products that have been produced by other forms of anaerobic respiration. Methanogens typically thrive in environments in which all other electron acceptors (such as oxygen, nitrate, sulfate, and trivalent iron) have been depleted. In the deep rock they obtain their hydrogen from the thermal and radioactive breakdown of water.
.
Methanogens have been found in several extreme environments on Earth - buried under kilometres of ice in Greenland and living in hot, dry desert soil. They can still reproduce from temperatures of 15 to 100 degrees Celsius. They are known to be the most common prokaryotes archaebacteria in deep subteranean habitats.
.
Live microbes making methane were found in a glacial ice core sample retrieved from three kilometres under Greenland by researchers from the University of California, Berkeley, US. Another study has also discovered methanogens in a harsh environment on Earth. Researchers studied dozens of soil and vapour samples from five different desert environments in Utah, Idaho and California in the US, and in Canada and Chile. Of these, five soil samples and three vapour samples from the vicinity of the Mars Desert Research Station in Utah were found to have signs of viable methanogens.

Some scientists have proposed that the presence of methane in the Martian atmosphere may be indicative of native methanogens on that planet.>>
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<<Bovine flatulence is a source of greenhouse gas and may contribute to the greenhouse effect.

Flatulence consists of gases that are produced by symbiotic bacteria and yeasts living in the gastrointestinal tract of mammals and are released through the anus. The primary constituents of flatulence are methane (produced by bacteria) and carbon dioxide (produced by yeasts), neither of which have any smell at all. The smell of intestinal gas is caused by minute quanitites of various aromatic sulfur compounds picked up by these gases further on along their way down the intestinal tract.

The gases are produced as a by-product of digesting certain types of food. Flatulence producing foods are typically high in starch, and include beans, yams, sweet potatoes, chickpeas, citrus rinds, chestnuts, broccoli, cabbage, yeast in breads, etc. In beans, the most notorious offenders in this regard, the problem seems to arise from starch molecules resistant to digestion: when the polysaccharides reach the intestines, intestinal bacteria feed on them, producing gas. In the case of those with lactose intolerance (ie. most non-Caucasian humans), intestinal bacteria feeding on lactose can give rise to excessive gas production. A European study into the effect flatulence has on general health, did not find any statistical significant differences in the general health of more flatulent and less flatulent people. They did however find that those who vented more frequently, lived significantly happier lives. >>
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[bystander]

APOD: 1996 August 17 - ALH84001: A Meteorite From Mars
http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17921

[aristarchusinexile]

Methane seems to declare the verdict .. that there is life on Mars .. which comes as no surprise whatsoever. Further, the presence of methane on Titan, in far larger abundance, seems to declare life on Titan as well.

Biological processes are only one possible explanation for the presence of CH4 on Mars. It's certainly intriguing, but hardly reaches the level of "verdict" at this point.

Methane is much easier to explain on Titan without requiring life. In the outer solar system, CH4 is the major repository of carbon (as compared with CO2 in the inner system). This is a consequence of the hydrogen rich environment in which outer bodies formed. Methane is relatively abundant in a number of outer moons, as well as in comets. In the case of Titan, there is a very nice model for the behavior of methane in its atmosphere that agrees well with Huygens and other data. The rate that methane is destroyed in Titan's atmosphere is much slower than on Mars. Nevertheless, the model predicts that the methane concentration on Titan is decreasing; however, we don't yet have good enough measurements to confirm this.

My post covered the geologic Black Smoker source of methane as well as biologic. However, on earth, all Black Smokers harbour abundant life, that life creating methane .. and there is no reason whatever that the Black Smokers on Mars will be any different, and that is why I said the verdict is in.

[aristarchusinexile]

Neufer .. your 'flatulence makes for happier people' was interesting. A ladyfriend made for us a pork and bean soup one evening, and we laughed our gasses off (you might say) .. but after a few months her side of our relationship discovered sour gasses. By the way, I think Martian Blueberries are excrement of silicone-eating creatures.

[Chris Peterson]

My post covered the geologic Black Smoker source of methane as well as biologic. However, on earth, all Black Smokers harbour abundant life, that life creating methane .. and there is no reason whatever that the Black Smokers on Mars will be any different, and that is why I said the verdict is in.

What black smokers on Mars? Black smokers are geothermal vents found under the ocean. Mars has no oceans, and little or no evidence of tectonic activity, active volcanism, or anything that could support liquid water beneath the surface.

Finding methane on Mars is interesting, but there's no verdict, and I think most planetary scientists consider a geologic explanation more likely than a biological one.

[bystander]

What black smokers on Mars? Black smokers are geothermal vents found under the ocean. Mars has no oceans, and little or no evidence of tectonic activity, active volcanism, or anything that could support liquid water beneath the surface.

Details, details, always details.

[aristarchusinexile]

What black smokers on Mars? Black smokers are geothermal vents found under the ocean. Mars has no oceans, and little or no evidence of tectonic activity, active volcanism, or anything that could support liquid water beneath the surface.

Details, details, always details.

From my post in this thread Monday January 19 - Scientific American, May/07 - Methane on Mars and Titan - on Mars "Aquifiers below the ice would provide a habitat for creatures or a venue for the hydrochemical (Black Smokers - my inclusion) production of methane."

From everything I've read on Mars since I came to this forum Mars has superabundance of H2O - most of it appearing to be frozen, not just at the poles, with large areas at the equator, with solid speculation as to liquid water under the ice which is at this time covered by sand. Just because volcanism is no longer active on the surface doesn't mean geologic activity is not happening beneath the surface .. in the potentially liquid H20 .. potentially creating Black Smokers .. potentially creating methane .. those smokers sustaining life. I almost want to say, "Do people who come to this forum actually read? Or just look at the pictures?" But I won't say it. No I won't. Definitely not!

[neufer]

My post covered the geologic Black Smoker source of methane as well as biologic. However, on earth, all Black Smokers harbour abundant life, that life creating methane .. and there is no reason whatever that the Black Smokers on Mars will be any different, and that is why I said the verdict is in.

What black smokers on Mars? Black smokers are geothermal vents found under the ocean. Mars has no oceans, and little or no evidence of tectonic activity, active volcanism, or anything that could support liquid water beneath the surface.

Finding methane on Mars is interesting, but there's no verdict, and I think most planetary scientists consider a geologic explanation more likely than a biological one.

It wasn't long ago that planetary scientists would not have believed in earth life living 3 billion years ago or living in submarine hydrothermal vents or living in the "solid" rock of the earth's crust, kilometers below the surface.

[Chris Peterson]

It wasn't long ago that planetary scientists would not have believed in earth life living 3 billion years ago or living in submarine hydrothermal vents or living in the "solid" rock of the earth's crust, kilometers below the surface.

Which is also why I don't think you'd find many scientists categorically saying that the methane on Mars isn't biogenic.

[Chris Peterson]

From my post in this thread Monday January 19 - Scientific American, May/07 - Methane on Mars and Titan - on Mars "Aquifiers below the ice would provide a habitat for creatures or a venue for the hydrochemical (Black Smokers - my inclusion) production of methane."

From everything I've read on Mars since I came to this forum Mars has superabundance of H2O - most of it appearing to be frozen, not just at the poles, with large areas at the equator, with solid speculation as to liquid water under the ice which is at this time covered by sand. Just because volcanism is no longer active on the surface doesn't mean geologic activity is not happening beneath the surface .. in the potentially liquid H20 .. potentially creating Black Smokers .. potentially creating methane .. those smokers sustaining life. I almost want to say, "Do people who come to this forum actually read? Or just look at the pictures?" But I won't say it. No I won't. Definitely not!

If you had just prefaced your previous comments, as you do here, with "potentially", there would be no issue. Scientists speculate on the possibility of liquid water under the surface, which then drives them to design tests and experiments. The important point is that this remains speculation, with little evidence. Yes, there appears to be a lot of water. Thus far, however, there is no evidence of subsurface aquifers. So once again I remind you of the importance between distinguishing possible from probable from certain.

Aquifers on Mars are possible only. Geothermal activity is possible as well. Neither of these has been elevated to probable. In short, there is no verdict here- not on liquid water, not on geothermal vents, and certainly not on life.

[neufer]

Aquifers on Mars are possible only. Geothermal activity is possible as well. Neither of these has been elevated to probable.
In short, there is no verdict here- not on liquid water, not on geothermal vents, and certainly not on life.

My guess is that 3.8 billion years ago Mars was at least as habitable to carbon based life forms as our Earth was (if not more so).

Besides...a search for Martian life is much more romantic than a search for mud volcano flatulence:

<<The term mud volcano or mud dome is used to refer to formations created by geo-excreted liquids and gases, although there are several different processes which may cause such activity. Temperatures are much cooler than igneous processes. The largest structures are 10 km in diameter and reach 700 meters in height. About 86% of released gases are methane, with much less carbon dioxide and nitrogen emitted. Ejected materials often are a slurry of fine solids suspended in liquids which may include water (frequently acidic or salty) and hydrocarbon fluids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mud_volcano

A mud volcano may be the result of a piercement structure created by a pressurized mud diapir which breaches the earth's surface or ocean bottom. Temperatures may be as low as the freezing point of ejected materials, particularly when venting is associated with the creation of hydrocarbon clathrate hydrate deposits. Mud volcanoes are often associated with petroleum deposits and tectonic subduction zones and orogenic belts; hydrocarbon gases are often erupted. They are also often associated with lava volcanoes; in the case of such close proximity, mud volcanoes emit incombustible gases including helium, whereas lone mud volcanoes are more likely to emit methane.>>

[aristarchusinexile]

From my post in this thread Monday January 19 - Scientific American, May/07 - Methane on Mars and Titan - on Mars "Aquifiers below the ice would provide a habitat for creatures or a venue for the hydrochemical (Black Smokers - my inclusion) production of methane."

From everything I've read on Mars since I came to this forum Mars has superabundance of H2O - most of it appearing to be frozen, not just at the poles, with large areas at the equator, with solid speculation as to liquid water under the ice which is at this time covered by sand. Just because volcanism is no longer active on the surface doesn't mean geologic activity is not happening beneath the surface .. in the potentially liquid H20 .. potentially creating Black Smokers .. potentially creating methane .. those smokers sustaining life. I almost want to say, "Do people who come to this forum actually read? Or just look at the pictures?" But I won't say it. No I won't. Definitely not!

If you had just prefaced your previous comments, as you do here, with "potentially", there would be no issue. Scientists speculate on the possibility of liquid water under the surface, which then drives them to design tests and experiments. The important point is that this remains speculation, with little evidence. Yes, there appears to be a lot of water. Thus far, however, there is no evidence of subsurface aquifers. So once again I remind you of the importance between distinguishing possible from probable from certain.

Aquifers on Mars are possible only. Geothermal activity is possible as well. Neither of these has been elevated to probable. In short, there is no verdict here- not on liquid water, not on geothermal vents, and certainly not on life.

My other post was from Scientific American, quoted as such .. but I do agree with you that it is necessary to distinuguish possible from probable from certain.
Personally, I think the venting of methane on Mars after such a long period of surface inactivity indicates a definite certainty of methane creation below the surface at this time. If I was a gambler I would lay a large sum of money on it.

[aristarchusinexile]

If there are microbes on Mars, I think we should stay away. The thought of bringing home some new microbes is really scary.

Alien life forms are always pictured as scary, when in reality humans are by far the scariest thing I've encountered personally, in history, in science, or in fiction.

[Chris Peterson]

Personally, I think the venting of methane on Mars after such a long period of surface inactivity indicates a definite certainty of methane creation below the surface at this time. If I was a gambler I would lay a large sum of money on it.

I'd be cautious with phrases like "definite certainty". I think most people believe the methane is coming from beneath the surface. But it's quite possible that somebody will propose a viable explanation for a surface effect. Soil chemistry on Mars is largely unknown.