Starship Asterisk*

Guest wrote:Excellent, now let me ask you what you think the odds are of one donut shaped object falling on the exact same spot of another donut shaped object of the same size and shape. Then factor in that this all had to be captured on film at the exact time the first rover in the history of mankind on mars passed by it. That's astronomical odds wouldn't you say?

You're going to have to take both images and circle what you say is "another donut shaped object of the same size and shape" and then circle the donut rock itself and tell me why you think they are the exact same thing.

Beyond wrote:Sharp eyes on the walnut thingie, BMAONE23 I wonder why our 'Ocular Digitator' didn't catch that

I did.

Geekzilla I can't even get the quotes right let alone start circling things. Luckily Thomas Challhan has already done this for me in his flashing before and after pictures

geckzilla wrote:

Guest wrote:Excellent, now let me ask you what you think the odds are of one donut shaped object falling on the exact same spot of another donut shaped object of the same size and shape. Then factor in that this all had to be captured on film at the exact time the first rover in the history of mankind on mars passed by it. That's astronomical odds wouldn't you say?

You're going to have to take both images and circle what you say is "another donut shaped object of the same size and shape" and then circle the donut rock itself and tell me why you think they are the exact same thing.

Beyond wrote:Sharp eyes on the walnut thingie, BMAONE23 I wonder why our 'Ocular Digitator' didn't catch that

I did.

Sometimes things go tooooo fast around here. I caught my missed steak and eliminated it, only to discover that you were quoting me about the same time.
So... do i have to put my missed steak back... or do we just forget about it and leave things as they are?

I guess with all that Manganese, it isn't a bird dropping like I first thought.

Acemellow wrote:Geekzilla I can't even get the quotes right let alone start circling things. Luckily Thomas Challhan has already done this for me in his flashing before and after pictures

Nothing he circled even touches the donut rock. You're bonkers.

Beyond wrote:Sometimes things go tooooo fast around here. I caught my missed steak and eliminated it, only to discover that you were quoting me about the same time.
So... do i have to put my missed steak back... or do we just forget about it and leave things as they are?

Your decision.

Acemellow wrote:Geckzilla let me ask you this. In the before picture Do you see the circular object in almost the exact same spot as the donut rock of the after picture?

The deal killer is the 3D image I posted. Shadows and highlights can confuse the eye; the 3D image unambiguously shows that the original surface has no rock sitting on it.

Edit: If you still have some doubt, compare the before 3D image to the after 3D image; the rock jumps out at you.

Chris Peterson wrote:

Roland wrote:I favor the space the space debris idea. The composition is different than the surrounding materials. Meteors can easily shatter on impact and bounce away from the point of impact with the newly exposed surface not showing signs of atmospheric entry. Another possibility is that a larger rock exploded after going through repeated thermal cycles. I have seen this happen in the desert where I live.

Manganese is fairly abundant on Mars, but is found in very low levels in meteorites. Aside from the morphological factors that argue against this being a meteorite, the composition does, as well.

While an exploding rock is presumably possible, Occam should guide us here, and a rock shifted by all the rolling around of the rover certainly is the most obvious and likely explanation.

It's hard to reconcile one's self to simple explanations. Most of us are raised in the spirit that the simple/trivial explanations are boring (hence the word 'trivial'), and we sometimes ignore the obvious and go for the less likely, more fabulous, explanations. Few of us know that the truth is so much more remarkable.

geckzilla wrote:

Acemellow wrote:

Nothing he circled even touches the donut rock. You're bonkers.[\quote]

Acemellow wrote:No no I was only suggesting to view his flashing pictures. I think it perfectly illustrates the donut rock appearing on another donut shaped object of the same size and shape. Given the ever expanding unfathomable size of the universe I find it very hard to believe that one donut sized and shaped object falls from space atop of another donut sized and shaped object on a tiny planet ( half the size of our tiny planet) at the exact time man kinds very first mars rover just happens to be rolling by filming. The odds are hopelessly infinitesimal. Clearly there is a donut shaped ( or circular) object in the before picture ( as we both agreed) so the odds are more likely that it's the donut rock in question. Even the leading theory of the scientists is that it was kicked up by the rover. So does it not make sense that the one donut shaped object in the frame (the same spot even) is the most likely answer?

Why the distorted shapes of the rocks? Everything is squished or elongated....

Acemellow wrote:... Given the ever expanding unfathomable size of the universe I find it very hard to believe that one donut sized and shaped object falls from space atop of another donut sized and shaped object on a tiny planet ( half the size of our tiny planet) at the exact time man kinds very first mars rover just happens to be rolling by filming. ...

Sojourner was the first Mars rover, in 1996 - 1997:

NASA Chronology of Mars Exploration wrote:Mars Pathfinder - USA Lander & Surface Rover - 870 kg - (December 1996)

The Mars Pathfinder delivered a stationary lander and a surface rover to the Red Planet on July 4, 1997. The six-wheel rover, named Sojourner, explored the area near the lander. The mission's primary objective was to demonstrate the feasibility of low-cost landings on the Martian surface. This was the second mission in NASA's low-cost Discovery series. After great scientific success and public interest, the mission formally ended on November 4, 1997, when NASA ended daily communications with the Pathfinder lander and Sojourner rover.

Acemellow wrote:No no I was only suggesting to view his flashing pictures. I think it perfectly illustrates the donut rock appearing on another donut shaped object of the same size and shape. Given the ever expanding unfathomable size of the universe I find it very hard to believe that one donut sized and shaped object falls from space atop of another donut sized and shaped object on a tiny planet ( half the size of our tiny planet) at the exact time man kinds very first mars rover just happens to be rolling by filming. The odds are hopelessly infinitesimal. Clearly there is a donut shaped ( or circular) object in the before picture ( as we both agreed) so the odds are more likely that it's the donut rock in question. Even the leading theory of the scientists is that it was kicked up by the rover. So does it not make sense that the one donut shaped object in the frame (the same spot even) is the most likely answer?

This is like showing me a photo of a butterfly you are dead set on convincing me is a photo of a bird. It's not gonna happen. At this point I'm almost positive you are just trolling for reactions with your ridiculous claim.

Chris Peterson wrote:

Acemellow wrote:Geckzilla let me ask you this. In the before picture Do you see the circular object in almost the exact same spot as the donut rock of the after picture?

The deal killer is the 3D image I posted. Shadows and highlights can confuse the eye; the 3D image unambiguously shows that the original surface has no rock sitting on it.

I think the rock is over 2/3 rds buried in the red Martian soil. As is much of the donut hole or bowl. I think there is even somewhat of a ridge ( very small amount left) left from where the dust filled in the lower bottom right outside perimeter of the rock in question. I also think I see where if you slide the rock down a bit and counter clock wise it fits back in the ridge. View it tell me what you think. Bonkers as geekzilla suggests?

geckzilla wrote:

Acemellow wrote:No no I was only suggesting to view his flashing pictures. I think it perfectly illustrates the donut rock appearing on another donut shaped object of the same size and shape. Given the ever expanding unfathomable size of the universe I find it very hard to believe that one donut sized and shaped object falls from space atop of another donut sized and shaped object on a tiny planet ( half the size of our tiny planet) at the exact time man kinds very first mars rover just happens to be rolling by filming. The odds are hopelessly infinitesimal. Clearly there is a donut shaped ( or circular) object in the before picture ( as we both agreed) so the odds are more likely that it's the donut rock in question. Even the leading theory of the scientists is that it was kicked up by the rover. So does it not make sense that the one donut shaped object in the frame (the same spot even) is the most likely answer?

This is like showing me a photo of a butterfly you are dead set on convincing me is a photo of a bird. It's not gonna happen. At this point I'm almost positive you are just trolling for reactions with your ridiculous claim.

No man I'm just trying to have a discussion. I don't apologize for having a difference of opinion than yours. Clearly this conversation is over. Have a nice day

Guest wrote:

Chris Peterson wrote:

Acemellow wrote:Geckzilla let me ask you this. In the before picture Do you see the circular object in almost the exact same spot as the donut rock of the after picture?

The deal killer is the 3D image I posted. Shadows and highlights can confuse the eye; the 3D image unambiguously shows that the original surface has no rock sitting on it.

I think the rock is over 2/3 rds buried in the red Martian soil. As is much of the donut hole or bowl. I think there is even somewhat of a ridge ( very small amount left) left from where the dust filled in the lower bottom right outside perimeter of the rock in question. I also think I see where if you slide the rock down a bit and counter clock wise it fits back in the ridge. View it tell me what you think. Bonkers as geekzilla suggests?

I meant up a bit and counter clockwise

Guest wrote:I think the rock is over 2/3 rds buried in the red Martian soil. As is much of the donut hole or bowl. I think there is even somewhat of a ridge ( very small amount left) left from where the dust filled in the lower bottom right outside perimeter of the rock in question. I also think I see where if you slide the rock down a bit and counter clock wise it fits back in the ridge. View it tell me what you think. Bonkers as geekzilla suggests?

Bonkers. I don't see that at all, and it's a lot harder to explain how an in-place rock would get uncovered than it is to simply allow for it having been knocked a few feet by the rolling rover.

Anthony Barreiro wrote:

Acemellow wrote:... Given the ever expanding unfathomable size of the universe I find it very hard to believe that one donut sized and shaped object falls from space atop of another donut sized and shaped object on a tiny planet ( half the size of our tiny planet) at the exact time man kinds very first mars rover just happens to be rolling by filming. ...

Sojourner was the first Mars rover, in 1996 - 1997:

NASA Chronology of Mars Exploration wrote:Mars Pathfinder - USA Lander & Surface Rover - 870 kg - (December 1996)

The Mars Pathfinder delivered a stationary lander and a surface rover to the Red Planet on July 4, 1997. The six-wheel rover, named Sojourner, explored the area near the lander. The mission's primary objective was to demonstrate the feasibility of low-cost landings on the Martian surface. This was the second mission in NASA's low-cost Discovery series. After great scientific success and public interest, the mission formally ended on November 4, 1997, when NASA ended daily communications with the Pathfinder lander and Sojourner rover.

thank you Anthony I will commit that to memory. Though I will say it does not lesson the odds of on teeny tiny donut sized object falling on another teeny tiny same sized object given the size of the universe

Please click this image to enlarge it so you can read the overlay text.

A bit disappointed to wake up and see this discussion go off the rails somewhat. Though the two de-skewed blink comparisons are excellent (and wish I knew how to extract the secrets embedded in Chris's 3D cross-eye before image ... I haven't been able to "see" those since I was a kid).

I do still think that the rover wheels are the most likely cause of the appearance of the rock(s).

I also think the efflorescence idea touted by rrgenes (with the aid of a rover wheel, and sudden exposure to the atmosphere, rather than flowering out of the ground at that spot) is interesting, although it is normally a slow process in my experience. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on the subject can say why it couldn't be efflorescence of one form or another?

Another thing I can't discount at this time (although again, others may be able to) is that it is some kind of light pumice stone or even scoria ejected from a volcano. The volcano possibly wouldn't need to be that close to the rover with the low gravity and high winds on Mars.

geckzilla wrote:Your decision.

I think I'll just leave it be.

geckzilla wrote:Please click this image to enlarge it so you can read the overlay text.

donutrockcompare.jpg

Man I wish I had your computer skills geekzilla. Excellent illustration. Ok here's my take though. The rocks you have circled in yellow pink green are not part of the rock but are holding the Martian soil to obscure it from view. Do you see the second ridge above your circled rocks That's the start of the donut rock ( in my opinion). In between the two ridges has been filled with red dust ( that's why it is not obvious that the rock is there) then look to the red circled rock ( object) to you ii assume they look like other peoples. To me they are the higher perimeters of the back of the donut rock. The pebbles (to you) are gone in the after shot. To me it's the higher out ridges of the rock only more exposed due to it being slightly moved up and counter clockwise. Try to move the rock in the opposite direction I suggest and the rock seems to fit back snugly into place minus the Martian soil of course. Just my opinion guys. I'm no troll

Nitpicker wrote:Though the two de-skewed blink comparisons are excellent (and wish I knew how to extract the secrets embedded in Chris's 3D cross-eye before image ... I haven't been able to "see" those since I was a kid).

Do you prefer anaglyphs?

Before:
After:

Acemellow wrote:

geckzilla wrote:Please click this image to enlarge it so you can read the overlay text.

donutrockcompare.jpg

Man I wish I had your computer skills geekzilla. Excellent illustration. Ok here's my take though. The rocks you have circled in yellow pink green are not part of the rock but are holding the Martian soil to obscure it from view. Do you see the second ridge above your circled rocks That's the start of the donut rock ( in my opinion). In between the two ridges has been filled with red dust ( that's why it is not obvious that the rock is there) then look to the red circled rock ( object) to you ii assume they look like other peoples. To me they are the higher perimeters of the back of the donut rock. The pebbles (to you) are gone in the after shot. To me it's the higher out ridges of the rock only more exposed due to it being slightly moved up and counter clockwise. Try to move the rock in the opposite direction I suggest and the rock seems to fit back snugly into place minus the Martian soil of course. Just my opinion guys. I'm no troll

Acemellow, I think you have rocks in your head. I'm never, never, ever going to play "Where's Waldo?" with you.

P.S. Chris, I don't know if I prefer anaglyphs ... let me get back to you after I've figured out what they are. Thanks in advance.

Nitpicker wrote:P.S. Chris, I don't know if I prefer anaglyphs ... let me get back to you after I've figured out what they are. Thanks in advance.

You view them with red/blue glasses. That creates an odd effect, but doesn't require pointing your eyes in directions they might not want to go.

There's only one way to settle this for sure --

I went looking over at the Curious-city site and found a much better version of the picture, with greatly enhanced detail, which should settle the matter once and for all.
You can pay me in doughnuts, as we Canajuns say.

Rob