APOD: The Mysterious Voynich Manuscript (2010 Jan 31)

[mykejeff]

You requested an opinion of how to translate the manuscript...

My suggestion is to give the manuscript to a mathematic, musical, or color SAVANT...Let the SAVANT read the complete manuscript. To further enhance the SAVANT's chances at decipherment, could the letters of the manuscript be assigned individual numbers,music glyphs, or colors...then converted into numeric, musical, color code tables? If the manuscript confused a SAVANT, who are many times superior to computers in speed, then it would be obviously gibberish. I don't possess the qualifications of your members, scientifically or being published...this is my intuitive leap...whether it is mad...childish...or inane...I suspect it could be done by a SAVANT.

Myke

[neufer]

I am curious enough to put this put there and ask for feedback. The APOD shows a picture from the manuscript and says it is somehow related to the sun. Does anyone else disagree with this? To me, it very much looks like the moon. If you look at the lines that are drawn on the figure in the center, I see the phases of the moon. That's just my take, anyone else care to share why it is thought of as the sun...

• 1) the rays coming out
  2) the 12 Zodiac directions
  3) the Ottoman Falnama sun face:
  

There are NO phases of the moon!

Rather... the sun is wearing a Mandarin Collar:


Note: Mandarin Collars originated from
the same place as the Manchu language:

<<In late 2003, Zbigniew Banasik of Poland proposed that the Voynich Manuscript is plaintext written in the Manchu language and gave a proposed incomplete translation of the first page of the manuscript.>>

[shoby]

It reminds me of pictures I saw drawn by someone who was autistic. I suppose that autistic people existed back then, as they do now?

[ewa]

There are 12 months. The one on the left with darker ink is otkogdab (october).
Feels like I know this book hehe

[SoulPatch]

I think it's a lunar calendar, indicating waxing and waning phases. The outer 3 bands look awfully like a circular slide rule. Has anyone constructed this as a slide rule and turned the dials to see if they come up with anything meaningful? The text at top could be instructions on how to use. Oh yeah, the first single star, maybe indicating December, star over Bethlehem? It's the only one with a "building" like structure in addition to star(s).

[mcs]

Noticed the similarities between drawings and handwriting in the Voynich versus the notebooks of Leonardo Da Vinci? Dr Edith Sherwood was among the first to propose this idea that I know of and digging for myself using google images there are many psychological, artistic and symbolic parallels.

Where is Leonardo's childhood and apprenticeship work?

We think of him as the most finished of artists and inventors, but there is no trail of how he came to be so accomplished.

[massdrive]

I looked at this for the first time today and this is what came to mind. The “sun”, or “moon” in the center could be mean “mother”, or “home”. Perhaps the crescent shape indicates that it can be turned or flipped, or spun or known from different perspectives. The spokes radiating from the center with stars on one side representing galaxies or universes, and the blackness on the other side might represent the void in-between. The spokes appear to be folded, possibly indicating a folding of space and time. Could this be a crude map or representation of part of our universe or of twelve different universes? Or not?

[neufer]

Noticed the similarities between drawings and handwriting in the Voynich versus the notebooks of Leonardo Da Vinci?

Where is Leonardo's childhood and apprenticeship work?

We think of him as the most finished of artists and inventors, but there is no trail of how he came to be so accomplished.

We know quite a bit about Leonardo Da Vinci thanks to Giorgio Vasari:

<<_The Lives of the Most Excellent Italian Painters, Sculptors, and Architects, from Cimabue to Our Times_ is a series of artist biographies written by 16th century Italian painter and architect Giorgio Vasari, which is considered "perhaps the most famous, and even today the most- read work of the older literature of art", "some of the Italian Renaissance's most influential writing on art", and "one of the founding texts in art history".>>

[benay626]

I agree with "Rallon" who wrote earlier today. My first thoughts, when I saw the manuscript, was that it was written backwards. A mirror image!

[sageofaquarius]

Carbon dating tells us that this text originated between 1404 and 1438 which coincides with the Western Schism, a period in which three Popes - in Rome, Avignon and Pisa - vied for control of the Roman Catholic Church. This was "an interesting time" when it would be prudent to record arcane knowledge for future generations by writing in code or, perhaps, in a forgotten language. Might it be in the language of the Cathars, a religious sect which lived in the Languedoc region of southern France and was persecuted to extinction by the Roman Catholic Church in the previous century?
It was a time when the stars and planets were believed to hold sway over human destiny and it could be very useful to have a document relating this knowledge, even if it were a hoax. It was also the period of the emergence of the Troubadours and, as suggested, might in part be an early record of minstrel lyrics.

[desaesed]

The astronomical pictures actually appear to be more astrological. If you look at the digrams starting on page 70r, there is a diagram for each Zodiac sign except Aquarius. The group starts in Pisces, which is atypical. However, the central diagrams of two fish, a ram (71r), a bull, twins, a crab (all 71v), a lion, a mistress (72r), scales (72v), etc, is unmistakable. Sagittarius (73v) is the last sign shown, but the page previous to it has a figure that definitely does not resemble the scorpion. An extra diagram over by Taurus is possibly Capricorn, misplaced. I don't see any figures representing Aquarius.
All the pages at the end that have stars and then entries might refer to specific properties of the stars, which would have not been out of place in a manuscript dealing with the zodiac signs as well.

[ametsrss]

Obviously this is done by, like, aliens. (just a joke) I viewed the entire book page-by-page at Wiki. Fascinating. It's some kind of code, (or an alien language?) for sure. It reminds me of a school project. Flora and Fauna abound in the book. A catalogue? A diary of observations (in the manner that Darwin kept)? It is a mystery. Were are the sophisticated code-breakers?

[solrey]

The page of manuscript featured in this APOD is probably just a lunar phase mandala related to alchemy, which is what the majority of the manuscript is about, plant alchemy/herbalism. The narrow red parts depict new moon, then the white depicts waxing, getting brighter, to the peak, or point, at full moon, then the blue depicts waning, getting dimmer back to the next red part at new moon, back to waxing, full, waning, new and so on. The writings and other symbols probably, at least in part, describe something to do with an intercalary adjustment.

Since twelve synodic months (354 days) are about eleven days shorter than the solar year (365¼ days), a thirteenth moon accumulates roughly every three years. For the cultures that attributed lunar months to agricultural seasons, this thirteenth blue moon created a potentially catastrophic problem.

Without the insertion of an intercalary period of extra days added to the calendar to account for the difference between the solar and lunar cycles, the seasons would arrive “earlier” with each passing year, resulting in a disjunction between the months and the solar periods they are intended to approximate. Important agricultural events would then occur out-of-season (i.e., harvesting or planting too early). The ability to calculate and insert intercalary periods is essential in all lunisolar calendars to maintain the anticipatory nature of the calendar, which otherwise would become random and chaotic. For early man, knowledge of this intercalary period was a source of esoteric knowledge guarded by the religious-political elite and was disseminated to the populace during luni-solar festivals as a means to re-assert the power of the ruling elite over the cosmos.

imho, this manuscript could be subtitled "The Idiots Guide to Alchemy" and it may well have been written with just such an audience of the times in mind, albeit possibly in a now forgotten cryptic language. I think it's no more mysterious than that. The zodiacal depictions may even be of an Arabic influence, which could explain why some are "missing".

[MitchellG01]

This is definitely some type of religious text. Based on the image, it seems to be describing the separation of day and night, with the sun and moon being gods.

[MissTrollop]

After minutely examining the Voynich, I have concluded that it was composed by a snoutband of suspicious blood.

[lewishb]

Two of the most little known facts:
The ancient Hebrews settled in China at a very early date and made contributions to Chinese science of astronomy.
Their main contribution was the fact that the origin of the Zodiac was that God's plan for the ages was spelled out across the sky in the constellations...... both the ancient Babylonians and Egyptians were aware of this but after a time corrupted the message.....
I suggest you look in the earliest writings on this......
Lewis

[AIRBOSS1]

in seeing parts of the book I wonder if it was not some early scifi writer. If they can not identify the constelations nor the language what is to say it was a bored mind dreaming?

[sageofaquarius]

Sagittarius (73v) is the last sign shown, but the page previous to it has a figure that definitely does not resemble the scorpion. An extra diagram over by Taurus is possibly Capricorn, misplaced.

The scorpion is a relatively recent astrological symbol for Scorpio. In the 15th century this sign would have been represented by either the eagle or the phoenix. Capricorn is traditionally represented by a goat's upper torso merged with a fish's tail.

[iamarobot]

it looks like the face in the middle is peering through a yellow hood, the rest of the circle containing the face is hiding behind the hood.

[iamarobot]

if you cover up one side of the face (exactly in half) it looks female - and happy. if you cover up the female side of the face it looks male - and unhappy.

[neufer]

There are 12 months. The one on the left with darker ink is otkogdab (october).

More like July, actually:
------------------------------------------------------

• *OTKOGA* : *AFTER* (Macedonian)
  *DAB* : *OAK* (Macedonian)
  
  *OTKOG-DAB* : *AFTER-OAK* (Macedonian)
  
  • 

The White Goddess - Celtic Tree Calendar
-------------------------------------------.

Code: Select all

Beth (Birch)    December 24 to January 20
Luis (Rowan)    January 21 to February 17
Nion (Ash)      February 18 to March 17
Fearn (Alder)   March 18 to April 14
Saille (Willow) April 15 to May 12
Uath (Hawthorn) May 13 to June 9

Duir (Oak)      June 10 to July 7

Tinne (Holly)   July 8 to August 4
Coll (Hazel)    August 5 to September 1
Muin (Vine)     September 2 to September 29
Gort (Ivy)      September 30 to October 27
Ngetal (Reed)   October 28 to November 24
Ruis (Elder)    November 25 to December 22

December 23 is not ruled by any tree for it is the traditional day
of the proverbial "Year and a Day" in the earliest courts of law.>>

-----------------------------------------------------------------

[gypsycat9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript

[Taz]

Maybe if we know where the manuscripts were found, and looked in the history of the area we might be able to find something out about it.
Also I am guessing that the language used on the text is a combination of two or more languages used at that time. Or it was completely made up.

[drollere]

it's a hoax artifact. the circumstances under which it was sold, the superficial, almost hasty quality of the text and diagrams, the lack of any recognizable external domain for the illustrations, the lack of decipherable structure in the text (in an age of codebreaking computers and advanced linguistics!) ... it's kind of obvious, really.

you need to see some of the 16th century "cabinet of curiosities", in particular the kind of thing that Rudolph went in for stuck out there in lonely bohemia, to grasp the context here. even things like bits of coral, crystals, petrified wood, were considered uncanny, potent and occult. the renaissance middle europe was an extraordinarily superstitious place. roger bacon would have seemed like a christ figure of knowledge. it's the perfect setup for a grift.

i would even conjecture that it's an inside job. one of rudolph's chancellors or diplomats, aware of his interests and his purse, could have commissioned something like this from an alchemist or scribe, and arranged a meeting with the "owner". a year after bacon's visit is about the "write amount" of time to pull it off.

[topdawg7793]

If its from the 15th century, than they should try going at it from different angles. People at this time did crazy stuff to hide their ideas and what not so that other people wouldn't steal them. Sorta like da Vinci but he came later on. And when i said different angles earlier, i meant literally. They should try using mirrors and stuff to see if its a form of a known language that is just upside down and backwards or something. i'm probably completely wrong but its worth a shot i guess. This could also be some hoax... but we might never know.