Starship Asterisk*

As for Earth , it has a greater gravity. And the appearance of life on Earth might have give it a different atmosphere then Venus (Lucky us.). Tho the Sun is giving a lot of energy, Earth gravity might be able to keep its atmospher intact. Hmmm, or not cause U.V. from the Sun break the water vapor of the atmosphere on earth too. It break it into H+ and OH- as it did on Venus and Mars and it may give enought energy to those ions to escape the gravity of Earth too. Then these magnetic poles of Earth might have force those ions back to Earth trought his pole. So Earth keep its water that way over the billion of years. So i suppose that gravity, Sun energy (distance of planets from the Sun) and magnetic field are all the answers needed to explain difference in planets atmosphere.

Was pleased to write this. What do you think of it? Up to you now. Lets continue the coming idea.

I should have stated my point more clearly, and I think I did in that older thread.

It is both the weaker gravity and the loss of most of its magnetic field. I think I also mentioned something about calculating escape velocities of the lighter elements in Mars’ upper atmosphere temperatures and pressures.

It is the weak gravity that cannot hold water.
Every time you have a meteor collides with Mars it boils the water and allows it to escape by its own velocity plus the suns rays helping along the way.

Alot of the water through many millions of years has come from meteors. Some planets have been able to hold onto this water by their gravity. Many moons of Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus have moons big enough with sufficient gravity to hold onto this water even after collisions with meteors.
On Io moon of Jupiter: you have both volcanic activity water lakes and lots of ice water.
Nice for a weekend holiday.

Stay Cool

Hi Folks

Just a thought re a couple of lines about how recent water flow on Mars and temperature and pressure.
I am still hanging on to my initial theory and adding a little more.
If most of the water was taken by a gravity source and the remaining water reset--found its levels- the rivulets on the south facing walls would be the last evidence of water flow. These are, ( as far as I know) the evidence of "recent" water flow.
What I see is:-- with the water went much of the atmosphere and therefore atmospheric pressure and some mass. What did remain however was ground temperature although in a slowly-steadily dropping state.
P1-V1-T1= P2-V2-T2 (is thet right) formula would to me mean a huge cooling cycle due to the loss of the above.
Resetting water would have still been liquid due to a slower temperature drop of the surface and would continue to form the rivulets----"recent water flow". With the lower atmospheric pressure- would there be some loss of water into the remaining super dry atmosphere. Would the evaporation cycle assist in forming the strange tapering channels. Would it flow due to the remaining warmer ground temperature. Would it reflow after icing up and slowly permeate the ground- due to the ballance of ground temperature and (I seem to remember) Tidal atmospherics.
All this is now cool- never to flow again, in a permafrost state- looking "recent"- set in concrete as it were but all having happened at the time of the floods.
regards Dave R

It would be nice to see alot of water on Mars.

The erosion that you speak of does not seem logical.
The planet is too small and its gravity too small and the atmosphere is 100th of that of earth and its too darn cold.

I could be wrong. Keep on your Idea never ever change your idea unless you find the evidence to direct you away from it.

Stay Cool

Harry, if you read Rev's post properly you would have a better idea of what he is saying. Just take your time Harry, read it, maybe even re-read it.

Yes your right,,,,,,,,,,i did read it again,,,,,,,,,,,,oops sometimes i feel like a donkey,,,,,,,smile

A really big eye opener is to compare old photos of Mars say prior to 1975, and today's images.

Norval

Storm_norm wrote:maybe collisions with the earth and Mars have made the orbits more circular??

if there was water on Mars, wouldn't its entire orbit be changed if that mass was removed over time?

we had funny dispute with christians not that long ago (yes, something I've been saying not-goint-to-happen-again, right) on Noah's Arc story. So, there was that idea that God took all water from Mars to flood the Earth. This does explain where all the water came from, quite conveniently. It also does explain, why no water on Mars now. We only haven't figured, where did it all have gone to, after the flooding. Perhaps, God needed it to flood some other planet, as well.

trust me, it's not a joke, it's all quite scientific theory.

think about it.

unidentified something happens on mars that vaporizes all its oceans in short period of time.

now, when it is gas, mars can no longer hold it, and all that water goes into space.

mars mass is slightly reduced, so its atmosphere looses even more gas.

water steam cloud start falling towards the sun (this requires some calculations; if sun's gravity could have had stronger influence than solar wind).

now, earth is, by pure coincidence, in more or less right position to pull that water steam cloud (maybe it even "screened" solar wind for it).

water is falling down on earth in a form of unusually heavy and long-lasting rains.

no explanation as to where it has gone to, yet... but I'm working on it we might speculate that our planet just can't hold more water than it normally does, so it also got vaporized into space or was sucked inside in some earth crust fracture... or maybe antarctica is "made of it".

that doesn't require you to actually believe in God or in Noah's Arc, only flooding part. However - as a side note - it would explain why God didn't flood the earth instantly - He waited for the earth to get into right position. Quite conviniently, Noah had some time to actually build his ship.

See, it is not less scientific theory than that of thread author 8)

This photo may help yah a bit Rev.



Norval

My best guess would be to look to the Hellas impact basin as the cause for the planet wide vaporization of any water that was there. The lower gravity on Mars would then add to the effect of Loss to space.

One doesn't have to get all that fancy Makc, just have that "Heavenly New Jerusalem" at 1,500 miles big pass close enough to do the job of moving the waters around.

Many Mars researchers now agree that most of Mars's water is still there. Just buried beneath several meters of debris.

Norval

craterchains wrote:This photo may help yah a bit Rev.

well, this photo shows us some features "burried in debris", as you said. Doesn't it?

Hi
A bit of a flurry of answers there- thanks for the replies and thanks for the photos Norval I will have a study of these.
Could I just take a line from Dan
>This does explain where all the water came from, quite conveniently. It >also does explain, why no water on Mars now. We only haven't figured, >where did it all have gone to,
I may be pushing the limits a little here but please consider the pcture where Mars water has been dragged to the northern hemisphere and has built up to a large dome and further- to an inverted cone with a spike- rather like a waterspout at sea. Perhaps this whole thing was even twisting-- rotating like a waterspout. The spike tip would have to be the part which was acreted out towards the gravity source.
The acretion would be narrow- and flowing and would be moving out into an escape angle from mars. Consider the picture as this rod- spike- string of water and churned ground debris, plus atmosphere rose and headed for the moving gravity source. Its initial direction was heading directly where the source was but by the time it came to the source-- the gravity had moved on- hence an acretion curved flow- perhaps even a disk around the source.
Now-- If I were to push the limits even further and describe the disk-- I would say it would look like the rings around Saturn- complete with layered debris with an interesting colour mix - evidence of water and most of all- the straw like rods of what to me look like rods of frozen water- perhaps like the water which was removed from the spike and froze in space. I am not saying Saturn robbed the water but an interesting phenomina- If the straw shapes are water ice I would love to see what they contained microscopicaly and if the other debris matched the surface of Saturn --or something else.
Dont forget-- much of the water would have remained in the process and this bulge of water would have reset- perhaps shaping some of the box canyon features of the northern hemisphere. The huge churning flows of water-- now with a large loss of atmosphere would be still in a liquid form- due to a retained but falling ground temperature the water now evaporating at high speed with some resetting to underground perhaps and remaining as a permafrost and ice . I cannot quite understand though- if this did happen this way- Mars atmosphere is so dry-- could that have been the ballance of the process-- taking the ballance of moisture off the planet by other means.
regards Dave R

No real need to go into a whole lot of speculation off world , Mars in this case, just how did those massive floods happen?

Most of the known facts point to a gravitational force having to be present to move the waters around and cause the flooding marks like we see. Water wouldn't have to actually leave the planet.

What would the surface pressure have to be for water to remain liquid?

Makc, as I said, one can learn a great deal from looking at older pictures and comparing them to more recent ones.

Norval

Hi
The link was interesting re water found Dan. I suppose it still lines up with being the remainder of the water after most had been taken.
Consider the process of the water being removed from the spike and ending up as an elongated shape which at some point would break and leave elongated sections freezing from the outside. Water seems to cling together in a no gravity situation.
Some of these pieces in the process I have described earlier may have returned-- fallen back to Mars and others may have just continued out in a sun orbit and some heading out to the gravity source.-- What sort of impact damage--and pattern-- would a Bar-rod-stick of frozen water make impacting Mars. I am still open to deliberate craterchains. At present- this is the only natural process I can visualise.
I will find time to take a look at Norval's surface changes today.
regards Dave R

Hi

BMAONE23 wrote:My best guess would be to look to the Hellas impact basin as the cause for the planet wide vaporization of any water that was there. The lower gravity on Mars would then add to the effect of Loss to space.

Yes the impact which created the Hellas crater is most impressive and you may be correct. Perhaps we should also look for clues to water flows and direction re the crater and the larger picture of the weeping south facing cliffs in the southern hemisphere and the resurfaced northern hemisphere with dead end waterflows- do they orientate in any way to the crater. I have listed a few other clues in previous posts but to me- flows head north and they are in at least two directions ie major flow north and the water which did not quite make it out- re finding its level.
regards Dave R

Here are some of the old photos of Mars.

http://www.solarviews.com//history/SP-441/ch12.htm

Wouldn't you love to have these raw data files to send through modern computer enhancements?

Norval

VIKING ORBITER VIEWS OF MARS

And that is all just dust?
*******

maybe there is some larger partivles in it, like sand.

Norval

Hi Norval and FieryIce
your posts are interesting. Do I understand you suggesting there may be a abrasive action of coarse sand particles that has and is making the observed damage and that it may be a presently ongoing process.- I suppose it could account for upward flow in some cases mmmm
I still like mine because of the flow intensity difference between North and South.-- weeping south facing cliffs -eccentric orbit etc Have you noticed a weather flow orientation which may line up with some of the damage concerned because I believe the dust storms are generated by Mars position on its eliptical path re proximity of the sun
I must find a picture I came across which has a distinctive flow patern generated by what would appear to be an upward flow of water-- or abrasion--- distinctive in that it shows a stratified section of a cliff with at each layer of boulder-rock protrusion in the rock-- a sheltered tail going uphill and the same with each susequent layer going uphill-- this pattern is repeated in several places. Could also be--abrasion from another source.
regards Dave R

Well, abrasive action of coarse sand particles was not exactly what I had in mind but it seems to be the idea of some theorist.

A "dust storm struck China’s Taklimakan Desert in early December 2005" compare to what is called dust storm on Mars.


Dust Storm in the Taklimakan Desert