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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:02 am
by Guest
We can see that Professor Lewin is holding the camera up to his face, looking down, so that the sun is behind his head. The color is from a single drop of oil on a reflective surface in an area where a jackhammer is being used. At this point, most of the oil is on the edge of the drop. The sun's reflection down through and back up through the torus of slightly thicker oil at the edges of the drop cause the colors.
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:03 am
by thepunnery
I agree, it looks very much like a glory to me. As for what it's reflecting on...I thought it was ice, too, at first, but the caption pointed out that the picture was taken in June.
It's a construction site; maybe they're building an ice skating rink? Okay, maybe not. But that does look a lot like frost and a bit of powdered snow or scraped frost.
Solstice?
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:04 am
by Dr Norm
I don't really understand if there has been any sort of official confirmation of ahecht's answer, but I agree that it is at the very least doubtful that the APOD editors wouldn't know the answer yet would link to that 8/6 post in today's post.
I'm not the most knowledgable on physics/waves/etc, and I dont know if someone has mentioned this at some other point already, but I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, so maybe you guys could figure something out with this.
June 20th 2004 was the summer solstice. The sun would have been the farthest from earth that it will be over the course of the year, and also it would be at it's northern most point (the tropic of cancer), therefore the earth's tilt would be pointing Massacusettes more "directly at the sun" than any other day of the year.
Now maybe I'm just stupid and you guys were all assuming this already because I saw it's also the APOD for that day, but I just had to post it in case you weren't and it would have some impact on your thinking.
Norm
picture
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:08 am
by jw-ak
Looks like a shadow of someone taking a pix of water on cement. The ring is caused by (a drop) oil on the water and the light behind him.
Daaaa!!!
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:13 am
by Guest
Prof standing in front of an extremely dirty mirror using a cheap non-flash disposable 35mm with a night security light behind him. Next!!!
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Look at ther face
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:17 am
by vamphunt
I may be a bit crazed from being awake for 15 hours now. But look at the face. I think I see his eyes and a mouth. With the camra next to his head.
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:27 am
by kilo*man, Ann Arbor
Directly behind the photographer are two (or more) small apertures which are close together and through which a bright light is shining (perhaps the sun?). The apertures acts as lenses to focus the image of the bright light upon the surface that is being photographed. Thus the image of the light source is brighter than the surrounding dimly lit surface. The color rings are due to the diffraction patterns from the apertures interfering with one another and producing maxima for each wavelength.
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:36 am
by Tunç Tezel
I guess it is a rainbow. In rainbows, the inner area of the bow is much brighter than the outer parts, due to light scatterring random and some UV light.
One can call the center as glory (no really sure for this occasion though), which will be familiar to frequent flyers and airliner pilots. At least, it can be a similar mechanism.
My final guess is, this photo was taken by using a really wide angle or fisheye lens, using a bright street light, a floodlight or just the Sun. The rainbow was producad by refraction-reflection of this light through fine ice crystals of fresh frost formed on a previously frozen sheet of water on tarmac.
Lewin's Challenge image
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:45 am
by FG
Another message in support of ahecht. Some years ago I produced a 'rainbow board' in a school by sticking small plastic beads to hardboard, which produced similar colours. Also I expect others will have pointed out this EPOD at
http://epod.usra.edu/archive/epodviewer.php3?oid=148192
the corona
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:49 am
by jojojay@charter.net
sirs:
the "shadow" is a guy using a flash camera casting the "flash" onto some sort of surface.
i don't think it is a fellow shooting toward the ground, i.e., the reflective beads theory, for it order to do that his outline would have to be directly in the middle of the image and the he would have to be suspended directly above his focus and perpendicular to the ground.
then where would the fellow taking his picutre from behind (and above) be?
also, it is dark and cold, and outside, persumably, as the fellow appears heavily dressed.
i am thinking that it is someone projecting a flash onto the concave surface of a reflective mirror, it a telescope. hence the brightness in the image center, the concentricity of the colored rings on the outside of the reflected rings, and the slightly blurred quality of the rings (and the lack of real "clarity" in the color, as the mirror hardly would have been designed to reflect light in such a manner as to produce these kinds of images, i.e., the angles of reflection not being designed for this).
that's my guess, courtesy of high school physics almost 40 years ago.
jjj
Identify this Phenomenon Walter Lewin (MIT)
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:57 am
by ashuston
ahecht has the correct answer, traffic paint beads spilled on the ground, producing the ‘Glory’ effect or Brocken spectra. I would also add it was taken around 10:20 am, as judged by the image distortion of the asphalt.
get some sleep people
the mystery image
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:01 am
by jojojay@charter.net
dear sirs:
i have looked over the link, and other responses.
i don't think it is a photo of any ground surface with reflective materials, for two reasons:
1. unless the picture taker is shooting absolutely straight down at the surface, and perpendicular to the surface, any such image would be eliptical and not circular, and
2. that absolutely would not focus the color rings on the outer edge of the image. what theory of reflection/refraction could cause that.
the other thing that caught my eye was the theory of someone standing behind a sheet, or some such, but i still don't understand how it would make the color rings.
some mechanism has to split the light, and then focus the split light on the circumference of the image. i simply can't imagine how any sort of flat surface would do that, and i can't image any shape of prismatic material that would do it either.
the one thing that intrigues me about the image is the sort of "structural" texture of the illuminated surface, and i really don't know how to accomodate my theory to that, unless the light source were really bright and somehow slightly penetrated the glass surface of the ground mirror to illuminate it grain structure. don't know enough about glass to explain that.
john jay
Re: Lewin's Challenge image
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:02 am
by makc
FG wrote:Another message in support of ahecht. Some years ago I produced a 'rainbow board' in a school by sticking small plastic beads to hardboard, which produced similar colours. Also I expect others will have pointed out this EPOD at
http://epod.usra.edu/archive/epodviewer.php3?oid=148192
Just look at the link. Images are virtually the same! This is not a question any more.
![Exclamation :!:](./images/smilies/icon_exclaim.gif)
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:06 am
by RedNyte
It appears to me to be a wall/ground( possibly concave?) in the early morning dew with no flash. Not too sure if the photographer is bending over or not.
glory!
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:14 am
by sarvagya
yes, the phenomenon is known as glory!
people have always been curious by it.
new scientist covered it in one of their old q&a sessions.
as far as i remember, it is typical for this effect to take place in the mountains and high altitudes.
granite
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:28 am
by vampire hunter
Could it be a granite wall or counter top. They have a reflective service when polished. But still the time of day is in question with this.
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:31 am
by h1ghf1ve
Then again, he could be standing inside a building
which has dome shaped skylights. The angular
defraction of the light being greater at the
edge as it has more material to pass through?
Possible?
mystery photo
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:38 am
by jojojay@charter.net
sirs:
i think i've got it.
my previous theories bothered me, 'cuz i couldn't figure out how you'd get someone inside a telescope or in front of the mirror.
then it occurred to me.
what if you put a crystal or glass hemisphere on a pedastal in front of a concrete wall (hint: at the construction site in massachusetts, probably not many mirror telescopes in massachusetts), have a fellow stand in front of the hemisphere (about head level) and shoot the flash.
might not the outer edges of the hemisphere act as a prism to break up the light into its component parts and cast the image.
i don't like the idea of any natural phenomena as it appears to me that the camera flash is the only illumination, and if the image in the picture were backlit we would see him.
john jay
p.s. i am going to sleep.
heiligenschein
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:39 am
by btacie
It's called a
heiligenschein. It's similar to a glory.
Check it out.
http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/droplets/heilig.htm
You can find examples all over the internet.
Instead of dew, it's the particles on the ground that he seems to have stirred up with his foot by looking at the dragmarks.
Mystery solved. Shows over folks.
I'll admit they do look cool though.[/img][/url]
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:44 am
by SteveRayle
It looks like the photographer took a picture in dense fog. The phenomenon is that the flash appears behind the one taking the photo.
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:44 am
by Allan
Yea i think its the Heligenshein.....
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
halo
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:47 am
by astroivar
This seems to be some kind of heiligenschein or opposition effect, as looking at the shadow reveals that it is the antisolar point. The reason for the colors are probably a glory, as seen from an airplane at certain times. The reason for the sudden darkness outside the rainbow colors might be for the same reason that rainbows are brighter on the inside than the outside
Re: Lewin's challenge
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:49 am
by Dark Prince
peter maisonpierre wrote:It would appear that Lewin casts a saintly shadow. I'd guess the order & type of colors seen at the halo fringe must be indicative of rank. (did I win ?)
Yes. Muhuhuhuahahahaha!
![Twisted Evil :twisted:](./images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif)
Lewin's Challenge
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:02 am
by Urania
The image was taken at a construction site at midsummer (June 20). I suspect the photographer was standing at the edge of a construction pit which was being sprayed with water to keep the dust down..perhaps early in the morning. With the Sun directly behind him, conditions would be right to produce the gegenschein/Glory. Check the links that accompany the APOD image for expanations of the phenomena.
APOD Picture
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:44 am
by Steve
I think its a glory for 3 reasons.
1. the effect is Circular
2. The spectrum of colours is red on outside, violet on inside
3. The Glory is Centred on the Camera (which is xcorrect, as the camera is taking the picture, of course.)
Not clear what is causing the spectrum od colours, but perhaps the photographer is photographing into a "mist" of Vapour which is difficult to see with the wall or whatever he is looking at. It certainly is a strange brownish colour. The sun must be shining directly behind him.