Starship Asterisk*

eltodesukane wrote:They should take a close-up picture. Why don't they?

I'm not sure they haven't. This might be one; hard to say. In any case, this stone is under close scrutiny. They will certainly direct all their instruments at it. But these things are done with deliberation, and have to be integrated with an existing exploration plan, as well.

What about the fine Flagstone Patio that Jelly donut sits on.
--Ross

geckzilla wrote:Here's a blink back and forth. I masked off the areas which aren't covered by both images. You can see that some people have mistaken one rock for another. The "jelly donut" was certainly not there before. Not anywhere in the frame at all, that is. A darker rock was also added near the upper left edge and a rock near the bottom edge got dirty.

They are from different angles and this was the best I could do. Bear with me.

Click to view full size image 1 or image 2

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donutbefore.jpg

donutafter.jpg

[/hide]

ugh. How do you not see the jelly donut rock? It's right there nfront of you only mostly covered by the Martian soil. Look at the dark circle. In the before picture in the exact spot where the jelly donut is in the after picture. The dark circle is The perimeter of the donut rock and the lighter color is its center. The hole of the jelly donut rock. Now look at all of the highest parts of the donut rock in the after picture. Study all of its features. They are all there in the before pictures.

Not perfect but close enough to see all of the changed objects that aren't shadows (circled in the second copy):


http://www.tom-callahan.com/mars-rock.gif


http://www.tom-callahan.com/mars-rock-marked.gif

The page is forcing the image to display a little smaller than it really is, click the links below each to see it at 100%.

Looks to me like Opportunity kicked up the rock from off the bottom of the screen somewhere, throwing some dirt onto the left side of the rock at the bottom center, and it rolled up to where it is now disturbing some pebbles along the way.

Acemellow wrote:ugh. How do you not see the jelly donut rock? It's right there nfront of you only mostly covered by the Martian soil. Look at the dark circle. In the before picture in the exact spot where the jelly donut is in the after picture. The dark circle is The perimeter of the donut rock and the lighter color is its center. The hole of the jelly donut rock. Now look at all of the highest parts of the donut rock in the after picture. Study all of its features. They are all there in the before pictures.

No, I don't see it. I presume that you're misinterpreting the images completely.

The triangular smattering reminds me of this

geckzilla wrote:

Acemellow wrote:ugh. How do you not see the jelly donut rock? It's right there nfront of you only mostly covered by the Martian soil. Look at the dark circle. In the before picture in the exact spot where the jelly donut is in the after picture. The dark circle is The perimeter of the donut rock and the lighter color is its center. The hole of the jelly donut rock. Now look at all of the highest parts of the donut rock in the after picture. Study all of its features. They are all there in the before pictures.

No, I don't see it. I presume that you're misinterpreting the images completely.

. I was not trying to be rude my apologies. Look right above your red circles. In almost the exact spot The rock has been slightly moved by the rover. The only rock I am talking about is the donut rock..it is there study the picture. The jelly donut hole is mostly filled with the red Martian soil as are the sides of the rock in question. Look at the nubules on the rock in the before picture they are rising above the soil but still have a coating of the soil. Don't forget the two pictures are different angles and magnification

Acemellow wrote:ugh. How do you not see the jelly donut rock? It's right there nfront of you only mostly covered by the Martian soil. Look at the dark circle. In the before picture in the exact spot where the jelly donut is in the after picture. The dark circle is The perimeter of the donut rock and the lighter color is its center. The hole of the jelly donut rock. Now look at all of the highest parts of the donut rock in the after picture. Study all of its features. They are all there in the before pictures.

We don't see it because it wasn't there. And look at the shadows around the pebbles in both images. The lighting isn't radically different, but if anything, the slightly lower Sun in the first image would have made the rock look even more obvious if it had actually been there.

Still doubt it? How about a before image in 3D? This is a crossed-eye stereo pair.

[/quote]
We don't see it because it wasn't there. [/quote]
[/quote]. The upper red circle actually circles. where the donut rock starts in the before picture. The outer perimeter of the rock.

The problem I see with the explanation that this rock was kicked up by a tire is that upon close examination of both pictures, taking into account the slightly different angles from which they are taken, I see nothing else disturbed or moved or in any different position from the before to the after image.

Acemellow wrote:The upper red circle actually circles. where the donut rock starts in the before picture. The outer perimeter of the rock.

You might want to put on your glasses or get your eyes checked. Your conclusion is completely unreasonable.

Acemellow wrote:

We don't see it because it wasn't there. [/quote]
[/quote]. The upper red circle actually circles. where the donut rock starts in the before picture. The outer perimeter of the rock.[/quote]
If you go off Thomas callhans excellent flashing before and after demo. Look at the highest red circle he has drawn in the before picture. It highlights an excellent starting point of the darker perimeter I'm talking about. If you follow that darker perimeter all the way around does it not make a circle with a hole in the middle? A donut shape. Now imagine the after picture of the rock mostly covered in red Martian soil with the donut hole mostly filled with the same red soil. Look at all the jetting features of the top of the rock. They are present Iin the before picture.

geckzilla wrote:

Acemellow wrote:The upper red circle actually circles. where the donut rock starts in the before picture. The outer perimeter of the rock.

You might want to put on your glasses or get your eyes checked. Your conclusion is completely unreasonable.

I'll bet the farm it comes out this rock was there all along

Acemellow wrote:

geckzilla wrote:

Acemellow wrote:The upper red circle actually circles. where the donut rock starts in the before picture. The outer perimeter of the rock.

You might want to put on your glasses or get your eyes checked. Your conclusion is completely unreasonable.

I'll bet the farm it comes out this rock was there all along

And when you lose the farm what will you bet next? Clearly, you aren't giving up on this. I'm glad you finally figured out how to not mangle the quote tags, though.

And when you lose the farm what will you bet next? Clearly, you aren't giving up on this. I'm glad you finally figured out how to not mangle the quote tags, though.[/quote]
I never give up on the truth. It was not my intention to offend only to inform.

Acemellow wrote:And when you lose the farm what will you bet next? Clearly, you aren't giving up on this. I'm glad you finally figured out how to not mangle the quote tags, though.

I never give up on the truth. It was not my intention to offend only to inform.[/quote]
And dang it I still haven't figured out how to not mangle the quotes

Chris Peterson wrote:

Roland wrote:I favor the space the space debris idea. The composition is different than the surrounding materials. Meteors can easily shatter on impact and bounce away from the point of impact with the newly exposed surface not showing signs of atmospheric entry. Another possibility is that a larger rock exploded after going through repeated thermal cycles. I have seen this happen in the desert where I live.

Manganese is fairly abundant on Mars, but is found in very low levels in meteorites. Aside from the morphological factors that argue against this being a meteorite, the composition does, as well.

While an exploding rock is presumably possible, Occam should guide us here, and a rock shifted by all the rolling around of the rover certainly is the most obvious and likely explanation.

Right.

For those unsure of what Chris meant by “Occam should guide us here” see http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/G ... occam.html

geckzilla wrote:

Acemellow wrote:The upper red circle actually circles. where the donut rock starts in the before picture. The outer perimeter of the rock.

You might want to put on your glasses or get your eyes checked. Your conclusion is completely unreasonable.

Geckzilla let me ask you this. In the before picture Do you see the circular object in almost the exact same spot as the donut rock of the after picture?

I prefer to believe that it is caused by an efflorescence from the subsurface triggered by Opportunity's presence.

Acemellow wrote:

geckzilla wrote:

Acemellow wrote:The upper red circle actually circles. where the donut rock starts in the before picture. The outer perimeter of the rock.

You might want to put on your glasses or get your eyes checked. Your conclusion is completely unreasonable.

Geckzilla let me ask you this. In the before picture Do you see the circular object in almost the exact same spot as the donut rock of the after picture?

Absolutely. I see what you are trying to say and I completely disagree because I see the object has come to rest on top of the pattern you are talking about.

geckzilla wrote:Here's a blink back and forth. I masked off the areas which aren't covered by both images. You can see that some people have mistaken one rock for another. The "jelly donut" was certainly not there before. Not anywhere in the frame at all, that is. A darker rock was also added near the upper left edge and a rock near the bottom edge got dirty.

They are from different angles and this was the best I could do. Bear with me.

Click to view full size image 1 or image 2

...

donutbefore.jpg

donutafter.jpg

[/hide]

2 Other differences apparent in this wonderful Blink Image (Thanks Geck)

First might just be a trick of light but there is what appears to be best described as a bruising or disturbance of the soil just above the 2 largest rocks located between the Doughnut interloper and the Rover Wing. A slight discoloration that could be either an impact disturbance or just a shadowing effect from a different lighting angle.

Second is a dark stone which resembles an open face Black Walnut sitting just above the Rover Wing area in the after image

forget it, tripped coming out of the cave on this one. ::SPLAT::

Just an observation, but this thing looks like some kind of mushroom. They spring up overnight just like this thing. Fungi can survive and remain viable under harsh conditions here on earth. Someone else will have to explain the chemistry of such a life form. Life is adaptable, it may spring up anywhere water or no.

You might want to put on your glasses or get your eyes checked. Your conclusion is completely unreasonable.[/quote]
Geckzilla let me ask you this. In the before picture Do you see the circular object in almost the exact same spot as the donut rock of the after picture?[/quote]

Absolutely. I see what you are trying to say and I completely disagree because I see the object has come to rest on top of the pattern you are talking about.[/quote]
Excellent, now let me ask you what you think the odds are of one donut shaped object falling on the exact same spot of another donut shaped object of the same size and shape. Then factor in that this all had to be captured on film at the exact time the first rover in the history of mankind on mars passed by it. That's astronomical odds wouldn't you say?