Starship Asterisk*

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:21 am**

marthe wrote:
everythingmustbeexplained wrote:Well, whatever it was, it certainly wasn't a UFO... even if it was unidentified, flying, and an object. Because we all know that those don't exist, don't we? Rational people wouldn't dare go there.

Honestly, you people crack me up. Hundreds of daily UFO sightings, and those people bold enough to admit seeing them become "kooks" looking for attention.

Yes, that must be it: it's a balloon. Or a space rock that hovered around for a long time. Whatever helps you get to sleep at night.

- Sorry, my english is very bad.
In my country I see a ufo go from the ocean to the star.
and I can sleep all the night very well, thank you.

in my country there is no luminance pollution and I can see all the nights the sky, thanks to the warm climate that we have. I have seen very strange things. The more rare that to me happen was for 20 year ago, when saw leave a ship from under the sea, and lose in the sky.
hasta la vista Baby!

[/i]

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:36 am**

JustAGuess wrote:A liquid wouldn't have the reflectivity seen in these images, although from the timing it does seem likely the object is something from the AMC-16's launching vehicle.

I saw a fuel dump some years ago (in the early 1990's) over Europe. These clouds can get bright. I would estimate that the peak total magnitude of the fuel cloud I saw to first or second magnitude, slowly getting dimmer with time. The cloud was visible, nearly motionless, for maybe an hour or so, shaped like a mushroom, streaming out of the point-like spacecraft, which was visible in a telesope only.

Having seen a fuel dump myself, I would certainly conclude from the observation posted above that this was a similar event.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:58 am**

Using both the Mauna Kea CONCAM and the original image in Haleakala , use parallax to make an estimate of the height of the object - this will help determine what the object is.

cheers
Martin
( http://www.mgnastro.org )

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:15 am**

AMC-16 was bound for an orbit of about 36,210km above the earth.

Okay, originally I was going to calculated what altitude the centaur module would have reached over a period of 23 minutes so we could then compare it to the rate at which an object moving at that speed at that altitude should move compared to the streak. Then I realized that as gravity changes as a function of the square of distance I don't know the math to calculate where it would actually be, because I need distance to calculate acceleration due to gravity, and I need the acceleratin due to gravity to calculate distance.

So now I'm just going to post what I *do* know (the altitude AMC-16 would have separated from the module, 22,500 miles or about 36,210 km) and let people more educated than I handle the rest.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:28 am**

Perhaps the streak was a fragment of space debris. Some form of Spacejunk that could easily have escaped detection considering the vast amount in orbit.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:50 am**

This is all so much sophistry without distance and speed measurements.
The calculations require basis references which others posses.
To whom are such requests sent?

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:00 am**

If the targeted orbital altitude was 36,210 km, it would have perfromed its seperation long before that height wouldn't it?

However, that distance or something short of it, but close to it, would explain the duration of the event.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:13 am**

It was ball lightning...or else a bird frozen in a time warp.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:25 am**

The pun I most liked was Assurantorix (comprehensive car insurance).

Could M. Lavedar tell us about the others ?

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:41 pm**

Atlas 3B rocket was launched from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida on WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 17, 2003 0230 GMT (9:30 p.m. EST Wed.) 0302 GMT (10:02 p.m. EST Wed.) At 10:34 p.m. EST the U.S. Navy's Ultra-High Frequency Follow-On F11 communications satellite was released into space following launch by the fourth Lockheed Martin Atlas 3 rocket. Mission officials report that the orbit's apogee is 35,911 km for a targeted 35,905 km, perigee is 288.3 km for a predicted 287.1 km and inclination right at 27 degrees.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:03 pm**

I think it was a meterorite.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:08 pm**

since the description indicates that TWO sites recorded the event, doesn't that imply that it's distance can be determined rather easily?

has anyone done that yet?

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:11 pm**

Hello,

I'm very courious what magnitude the object had... After looking at the images I think it was about mag -4 or -5.

PS: This is my amateur deep sky astronomy page. Hope you will like it

http://www.astroclubul.org/emilneata

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:22 pm**

Could a set of possible orbits/courses be plotted and then extrapolated to where it is now and then look in these locations?

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:23 pm**

I did a check, as some said it could be a fuel dump. I checked the data and trajectory the rocket took after it was launched, it matches what was observed. The AMC 16 would have seperated from the centaur upper stage at around 13:52 UTC, after which the fuel dump will occur.
So the camera captured the fuel dump. I have seen one fuel dump, from a atlas 2AS launch this past aug, very cool.

Kevin

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:31 pm**

Since the people who presented this topic, are also the people who posses the information required in order to calculate distance and speed, and they have not yet provided it, I must deduce this is all some sort sociology experiment.

In order to perform these calculations, we'd at the least need multiple reference stars from each recording.

Absent that, we need to have the exact positions of the two recording stations, and specifications of the lens' through which the observations were made.

This is all very interesting, but I'm not interested in being part of some sociology experiment, and without the easily provided data, that's all this represents to me.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:48 pm**

Yeah! Wheres the data?

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:02 pm**

It's a bug?

The fuel dump sounds plausible if the mechanics can be shown to work out right. Also related to the satellite, presumably, it had an upperstage to take it to geosynchronous orbit. Could we be seeing that?

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:29 pm**

From its' track it looks like it could have been the messanger of Osiris (Orion) fleeing Sirius..........(mailman running from the dog).

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:31 pm**

Hi, I am new to the forum and from Ohio, USA.

I believe the object to be either a meteorite or some other space debris that is up there floating around.

My mind is open to UFOS,(Heck, I have even seen what I believe to be experimental, military aircraft flying around in my area at least twice!) but a streak of light could be just about anything.

Can't wait to explore the rest of the site!

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:39 pm**

Jerry Fishman wrote:BOB-
I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS JUST THE RE-ENTRY of an un-cataloged piece of spacecraft or upper stage that could have been in orbit for many years. It could have been something as small as a large explosive nut or bolt used to tie satellites to an upper stage.

Best Regards, It was good to see you in San Diego. Keep up the good work on APOD.

Jerry Fishman
NASA-MSFC

This makes sense, but in this case we should have got significant parallax with the Mauna Kea CONCAM. Since we don't have any, it is likely that this object is at least 1000km above the ground. It is definitely not inside or nearby the atmosphere.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:43 pm**

This is interesting... for sure.
A quick glance seems to indicate: 1) object moving WSW to ENE, 2) approxmately 20 minutes transpires to cross about 1/3 of the sky (I didn't measure closely), 3) the object either grows in brilliance for some reason, is descending from a higher altitude, or grows in size or proximity to the camera.

Terrestrial thoughts (regardless of probability): blimp, helicopter, hot air balloon, prank, some purposeful aerial activity (surveying, aerial photography, military, hobbyist), weather balloon descending.

Non-terrestrial thought: passing asteroid, space junk, spy satellite...

No, I do NOT think it was a flying saucer landing... but I can't wait to see the the posts here. Should be a riot!

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:46 pm**

Even though we don't yet have much data, there are some things we can conclude.

The siting was corroborated. This eliminates any glitches or aberrations.

According to the timestamps, the object was in view for ~20 minutes.
In that time it crossed significantly less than half the sky. If this was in orbit, it was very high.

The object appears to slow down in its path across the viewing area. This could be an illusion caused by a change in direction of the object. It could also be merely foreshortening as the objects path changes with respect to the observation point (eg. if it is receding as the Earth turns). No conclusiono here, just a bit of info.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:03 pm**

This object was clearly the AMC-16 Centaur outgassing at the end of its burn. I saw the NROL-1 Centaur event over Toronto, there were more than 50 UFO reports after that event. Here are my pictures:

http://public.fotki.com/nexstarman/inte ... -dump.html

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:12 pm**

It was mentioned the object was "high"... does this mean beyond our atmosphere? Could it have been an atmosphere grazing asteroid, skipping by just long enough to sparkle a bit, then zip away to another vacation spot in the solar system? A smallish visitor may have escaped detection prior to its encounter with a thin outer layer of earth gas?

Starship Asterisk*

Which satellite is this?

FuelDump

use parallax to find height

Spacejunk?

Distance of object(s)

Mysterious object over Hawaii

The Asterisk

Streak Above Hawaii

Um, what about triangulation?

Re: Streak Above Hawaii

Plot an orbit

fuel dump from AMC 16 launch

Hmmm

Re: APOD Unknown over Hawaii- Feb 8

NSL Image

some theories eliminated

Hawaiian Streaker