Starship Asterisk*

lankytom wrote:I would like to refer you to the subject of the "Maunder Minimum." That was a period from around 1645 - 1715 when sunspots were at a minimum or even absent and a mini ice age descended on Europe.

Whether or not the 300 year Little Ice Age (1550 to 1850) and the MUCH shorter 70 year Maunder sunspot minimum (1645 to 1715) are related (and/or have anything to do with the above) is debatable IMO. One can argue that our recovery from the Little Ice Age is almost solely due to (coal/gasoline burning) global warming (and, possibly, that our entry into the Little Ice Age was almost solely due to human agricultural burning).

In 1500 there were probably
50,000,000 native people in the Americas
burning down forests for agriculture.

In 1750 there were probably
500,000,000 people in Asia and
163,000,000 people in Europe
burning down forests for heat & cooking.

There would have been a constant cooling fire haze from all this that suppressed temperatures before the CO2 had time to build up and reverse this process.

neufer

There would have been a constant cooling fire haze from all this that suppressed temperatures before the CO2 had time to build up and reverse this process.

I highly doubt that. For many reasons, think about it.

craterchains wrote:

neufer wrote:There would have been a constant cooling fire haze from all this that suppressed temperatures before the CO2 had time to build up and reverse this process.

I highly doubt that. For many reasons, think about it.

I have thought about it already. Could you be a little more specific?
[Note: I am not claiming that the majority of CO2 came from the permanant loss of certain forests but rather from the continual burning of peat bogs, coal, oil and other fossil fuels.]

Here is an interesting graph that may not shed much light on the last thousand years, or the fact that greenhouse gasses are at their highest levels in over 650,000 years, just for lack of detail but it does take the record back 400,000 years or so based on Antarctic ice core samples. It certainly highlights some natural long-term climatic fluctuations of the past.

http://www.mongabay.com/images/external ... limate.jpg

auroradude wrote:Here is an interesting graph that may not shed much light on the last thousand years, or the fact that greenhouse gasses are at their highest levels in over 650,000 years, just for lack of detail but it does take the record back 400,000 years or so based on Antarctic ice core samples. It certainly highlights some natural long-term climatic fluctuations of the past.

It surely will make one wonder just how much of this "global warming" is due to natural climatic changes.


Nuefer, I hope you didn't really expect CC to explain himself. I would've thought by now you would realize that CC and FI don't explain, they "just observe the obvious". Obvious to them, anyway. Think about it. Oh, and BTW, welcome aboard.

auroradude
Antarctic ice core samples.

We know that the antarctic was inhabited in the early 1200s. Harbors, trees, land and animals. A map that shows it. Also from the 400 - 600 CE another map showing only snow and ice on the highest mountains there. That calls into question using any ice to date such events. Counter information that calls to question some other dating methods too.


Well Art,
The volcanos of our life time have done more damage, if one wants to call it that, than all of so called mans polluting efforts. I hear tell that there are some very nasty gasses from underground that pollute our air also. What amazes me are the beautiful new rainbow effects that have been appearing in our atmosphere in the last couple of decades. Fascinating.

Norval

bystander wrote:Neufer, I hope you didn't really expect CC to explain himself. I would've thought by now you would realize that CC and FI don't explain, they "just observe the obvious". Obvious to them, anyway. Think about it. Oh, and BTW, welcome aboard.

Nice to be aboard, thanks, bystander.

auroradude wrote:Thanks for that.
I can relate to the frustration of not being able do the science at the very time that it would be so much desired. It would be inconceivable that I would have to switch off my cameras during such an event.

http://www.spacew.com/gallery/image001984.html

Thanks very much for that link to your pictures Dennis. They are truly excellent and I really enjoyed looking through them. I have never witnessed an aurora show and it is one of my deepest desires.
'Calm below the storm' is beautiful.

Cheers!

Thanks Andy.
I'd like to invite you to come see the auroras from Alaska but I think it would be a lot easier for you to visit perhaps Norway. Easy hop to Copenhagen, Oslo and then maybe Tromso. Perhaps you have a direct hop over to Iceland. You will get them in the UK but it usually takes a pretty good solar flare and these are few and far between during the current solar minimum. There are signs that the new cycle is starting so conditions will improve over the next couple years or so.
I was lucky to see and photograph the auroras since I was young and was hooked right away. They are addicting.
When I was about 12 years old - 35 years ago, an Earth science teacher had talked of the solar cycles and how the climate was related citing the cycle of drought/fire seasons that paralelled the solar cycle. It was fascinating then and still is now.

Dennis Anderson

auroradude wrote:Thanks Andy.
I'd like to invite you to come see the auroras from Alaska but I think it would be a lot easier for you to visit perhaps Norway. Easy hop to Copenhagen, Oslo and then maybe Tromso. Perhaps you have a direct hop over to Iceland. You will get them in the UK but it usually takes a pretty good solar flare and these are few and far between during the current solar minimum. There are signs that the new cycle is starting so conditions will improve over the next couple years or so.
I was lucky to see and photograph the auroras since I was young and was hooked right away. They are addicting.
When I was about 12 years old - 35 years ago, an Earth science teacher had talked of the solar cycles and how the climate was related citing the cycle of drought/fire seasons that paralelled the solar cycle. It was fascinating then and still is now.

Dennis Anderson

Thanks for that, I look forward to the day I get to see something.
One day - maybe Iceland, with a bit of luck we'd get to see some live volcanos too...
The picture "Big Country, Big Camera" reminds me of some words from a song:
"You know you're in the largest state in the Union when you're anchored down in Anchorage"

Liked the animations too... They really give me a good impression of what I'm missing.

Since the Earth is at perigee During the Southern Hemisphere's summer the effect could be more relavent with respect to those climes. Also, more unstable air masses occur in the spring and fall with more gale+ storm activity in both hemispheres. One would think lunar influences would play a more significant roll especially perhaps coupled with sunspot activity.

interesting information...thx