Venus & Jupiter (APOD 02 Feb 2008)

[FieryIce]

Art, you are bringing in extraneous nonsense and going off about astronomical cycle when I posted about
"Go, weigh for me the weight of fire, or measure for me a blast of wind, or call back for me the day that is past … or show me the picture of a voice … if you solve one of them for me, then I will show you the way you desire to see … You cannot understand the things with which you have grown up; how then can your mind comprehend the way of the Most High?"
STDD

[emc]

easily impressed minds of the ancients,

Maybe the ancients were smarter than us "modern folks" but simply had less data and fewer tools

[craterchains]

Yeppers, , , Same Tactics, Different Day (STDD)

The IAC are hard at work, hmmmmm makes one wonder why?






IAC = Information Aquisition and Control (agents)

[auroradude]

Ed, I wouldn't go so far as to say we are any smarter now but by exonerating Gallileo, the Catholic Church finally recognized the fact that the Earth orbits around the Sun and not the other way around. And this took place only about 20 years ago!

[emc]

auroradude, The bible does not teach us that the earth is the center of the universe.

Regarding the church, Jesus laid the foundation for the church with people, not elaborate or even plain building materials. His church was neither a science lab or a political arena although even the original churches were infiltrated with corruption... right off the bat!

-------

MAN I missed seeing Venus and Jupiter this morning because of those pesky clouds

[craterchains]

Neufer,

I have mixed emotions about people who feel that they have to take ancient literature/scripture literally but it is fun to engage in this from time to time.

I too have "emotions" about people that keep "religionizing" the bible, or ones that state that it contains no relevant information, and my emotions about those that out right lie about the book often cause me to sigh over them. When it comes to a "star" that moved so ones could follow it it throws any celestial (above our atmosphere) event out the window of possibility, let alone probability.

Take for an example the questions that FieryIce posed from the bible, care to answer them? How about attempting a guess at when we learned to answer them? Given that the ancient languages had only about 4 - 5 thousand words to use, it is remarkable that those highly technical questions could even be proposed. Given that an educated person has about a 60,000 word vocabulary, you should be able to answer them with just one word each?

Norval

[neufer]

Neufer,

I have mixed emotions about people who feel that they have to take ancient literature/scripture literally but it is fun to engage in this from time to time.

I too have "emotions" about people that keep "religionizing" the bible, or ones that state that it contains no relevant information, and my emotions about those that out right lie about the book often cause me to sigh over them. When it comes to a "star" that moved so ones could follow it it throws any celestial (above our atmosphere) event out the window of possibility, let alone probability.

As a youngster I don't recall the eloquent lecturer at Morehead Planetarium referring to this particular embellishment of the story.
Do you suppose that he was being dishonest?

Take for an example the questions that FieryIce posed from the bible, care to answer them?.

I answered FieryIce with my own question on Ezra and astronomy.
If he answers my question then I might try to answer his.

How about attempting a guess at when we learned to answer them? Given that the ancient languages had only about 4 - 5 thousand words to use, it is remarkable that those highly technical questions could even be proposed. Given that an educated person has about a 60,000 word vocabulary, you should be able to answer them with just one word each? - Norval

An "eschatological battle" with one word, Norval? How about *YAMM* then
(; as in: "*I YAMM* what *I YAMM* and that's all that *I YAMM*" )
---------------------------------------------
<<In Hebrew the word for *SEA* is *YAMM*,
who is the evil *SEA* god in ancient Canaan myth.
For the Hebrew people *YAMM* is the CHAOS monster.>>
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080203.html
.
Job 9:7-9: [God] commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and *treadeth upon the waves of the SEA* (*YAMM*). Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
............................................
John 6:15-20: His disciples went down unto the *SEA* (*YAMM*), And entered into a ship, and went over the *SEA* toward Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus was not come to them. And the *SEA* arose by reason of a great wind that blew. So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus *walking on the SEA*, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid. But he saith unto them, It is I; be not afraid.
............................................
<<[Jesus] was the eschatological battle against the cosmic enemy,
the CHAOS monster characterized by the *SEA* (*YAMM*).
http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/walking_water.htm
---------------------------------------------

[craterchains]

[FieryIce]

I suppose...

Is not a question, there is no question to me in that entire post, Art.
I repeat (note the very simple language used):

"Go, weigh for me the weight of fire, or measure for me a blast of wind, or call back for me the day that is past … or show me the picture of a voice … if you solve one of them for me, then I will show you the way you desire to see … You cannot understand the things with which you have grown up; how then can your mind comprehend the way of the Most High?"

[iamlucky13]

Ed, I wouldn't go so far as to say we are any smarter now but by exonerating Gallileo, the Catholic Church finally recognized the fact that the Earth orbits around the Sun and not the other way around. And this took place only about 20 years ago!

I just want to take a second and clarify something here, because I've been seeing some misconceptions regarding this coming up frequently lately on various message boards.

The Church quietly stopped caring about this issue as more and more evidence for heliocentrism mounted. However, a lot of lingering criticism remained, and some people made a big show of pointing out this misstep whenever possible, which is why in 1992, Pope John Paul II formally apoligized for the Church's handling of the Galileo affair and made a formal recognition of heliocentrism.

Much of the criticism, I think, is unfair. For the first part, Galileo was not the first to propose heliocentrism, or even to provide evidence of it. Copernicus studied and discussed it a century earlier and sparked a lot of favorable interest.

Critics level the charge that the Church should have immediately embraced Galileo's proposal, but utterly ignore the context of the day. Almost EVERYONE, not just the leadership of the Church, was convinced of geocentrism. It seemed obvious just by looking up in the sky. Even brilliant men like Archimedes, Aristotle, Pythagorus, Da Vinci, etc were convinced of it. Heck, just consider what a fuss was raised when the IAU said Pluto isn't a planet. You can bet a lot more people got their panties in a really tight bunch when this small group of people claimed their entire view of the universe was wrong, based on evidence few had seen or had the education to wrap their minds around. It's easy for us because we've been told it since kindergarten, shown models and pictures etc. They didn't have that.

Galileo was the poor SOB who got caught in the crosshairs of this debate, and he was just stubborn enough about it to get into trouble. Even that took some doing, however. At first, quite a few prominent churchmen, notably Pope Urban VIII, took a strong interest in his work. However, he (apparently accidentally) publicly insulted the pope while promoting his theory, ending their friendship. The geocentric advocates (which remember, was the overwhelming majority of society at the time) then had the political clout to swing the board of inquisitors in their favor, who applied a few Bible passages to label it heresy in 1633. More explicitly, they said that his view that the sun was stationary was the problem, because the Bible says the sun moves around the earth. We now, of course, know that both move.

Obviously, this is where it got ugly. As a result, he was commanded to publicly recant heliocentrism, his book on it was banned, and he was placed under house arrest. Ironically, some of his best work was done during this time on kinematics and the strength of materials.

He died in 1642, although he still had many supporters. Even at this time, the cards were falling against geocentrism. In 1619 (before Galileo's suppression, mind you), Kepler published his laws on planetary motion. In 1687, Newton published his law of gravitation, which almost perfectly corroborated Kepler's work, and by 1741, Galileo's work was allowed to be published again.

[FieryIce]

so

[emc]

The Bible does not teach us that the earth is the center of the universe. The Bible teaches us that we are the center of God's attention.

The Bible has historically been misused to bolster arguments both for scientific and political embellishment.

What the Bible does teach us can be summerized in one, two or three words... love, have faith, God loves us.

.......

What about Venus and Jupiter... anybody see them this morning??? Are they still there??? I couldn't tell for the clouds... guess I don't have enough faith that they are still there

[auroradude]

Not to get off the subject but I do hope that folks elsewhere are getting to see this conjunction. At 60 degrees north, and with mountains to the south, I have barely been able to see Venus rise between peaks before it is too light out. The moon has been too low the past few days and Jupiter is just not bright enough to be seen over the strong twilight.
I'll bet I could see this type of planetary alignment a lot more often from, say, 30 degrees north.

Thanks for all the "enlightenment".

[neufer]

Not to get off the subject but I do hope that folks elsewhere are getting to see this conjunction. At 60 degrees north, and with mountains to the south, I have barely been able to see Venus rise between peaks before it is too light out. The moon has been too low the past few days and Jupiter is just not bright enough to be seen over the strong twilight.
I'll bet I could see this type of planetary alignment a lot more often from, say, 30 degrees north.

Thanks for all the "enlightenment".

Venus & Jupiter will be separated by a whole 6° by tomorrow
(and you'll never see over THOSE mountains.)

Code: Select all

Wed 2008 Feb 6 17:30 UTC
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Solar

              Right                   Distance    From 59°42'N 151°30'W:
            Ascension    Declination      (AU)   Altitude Azimuth

Sun         21h 18m 58s   -15° 39.1'     0.986    -4.988  -67.207 Set
Venus       19h 11m 15s   -21° 58.6'     1.367     1.846  -37.128 Up
Jupiter     18h 48m 18s   -22° 51.6'     5.998     2.644  -31.807 Up

HOMER: We have a great life here in ALASKA,
. and we're never going back to America again!
.
. - The Simpsons Movie (2007)

[neufer]

"Go, weigh for me the weight of fire"

one second of the sun's fire = 4.9 million tons

"measure for me a blast of wind"

Worldwide capacity of wind-powered generators is ~75 gigawatts.

"call back for me the day that is past …"

--------------------------------------
First D.J.: Okay, campers, rise and shine, and don't forget your booties 'cause it's cooooold out there today.

Second D.J.: It's coooold out there every day. What is this, Miami Beach?

First D.J.: Not hardly. And you know, you can expect hazardous travel later today with that, you know, that, uh, that blizzard thing.

Second D.J.: [mockingly] That blizzard - thing. That blizzard - thing. Oh, well, here's the report! The National Weather Service is calling for a "big blizzard thing!"

First D.J.: Yessss, they are. But you know, there's another reason why today is especially exciting.

Second D.J.: Especially cold!

First D.J.: Especially cold, okay, but the big question on everybody's lips...

Second D.J.: - On their chapped lips...

First D.J.: - On their chapped lips, right: Do ya think Phil is gonna come out and see his shadow?

Second D.J.: Punxsutawney Phil!

First D.J.: Thats right, woodchuck-chuckers - it's

[in unison]
First D.J.: GROUNDHOG DAY!
Second D.J.: GROUNDHOG DAY!
--------------------------------------

"or show me the picture of a voice"

http://www.sleeplearning.com/html/silent_technology.htm

[auroradude]

"HOMER: We have a great life here in ALASKA,
. and we're never going back to America again! "

He couldn't have said it better! It's amazing how many people don't know that Alaska IS part of the US but that's OK by us!

[neufer]

so
_________________
Tic Toc

CHARLES MACKAY's
MEMOIRS OF EXTRAORDINARY POPULAR DELUSIONS
http://sailor.gutenberg.org/etext97/3ppdl10.txt
...............................................
<<"A certain person, having occasion to dig somewhat
deep in the ground where this philosopher lay interred,
met with a small door, having a wall on each side of it.
His curiosity, and the hope of finding some hidden treasure,
soon prompted him to force open the door. He was immediately
surprised by a sudden blaze of light, and discovered a very fair
vault. At the upper end of it was a statue of a man in armour,
sitting by a table, and leaning on his left arm. He held
a truncheon in his right hand, and had a lamp burning before
him. The man had no sooner set one foot within the vault,
than the statue, erecting itself from its leaning posture, stood
bolt upright; and, upon the fellow's advancing another step,
lifted up the truncheon in his right hand. The man still ventured
a third step; when the statue, with a furious blow, broke the lamp
into a thousand pieces, and left his guest in sudden darkness.
Upon the report of this adventure, the country people came with
lights to the sepulchre, and discovered that the statue, which
was made of brass, was nothing more than a piece of clock-work;
that the floor of the vault was all loose, and underlaid with
several springs, which, upon any man's entering, naturally
produced that which had happened.>>
-------------------------------------------------------
Tiktok, the Machine Man
http://baum.thefreelibrary.com/Ozma-of-Oz/4-1
................................................
<<For, standing within the narrow chamber of rock, was the form of a
man--or, at least, it seemed like a man, in the dim light. He was
only about as tall as Dorothy herself, and his body was round as a
ball and made out of burnished copper. Also his head and limbs were
copper, and these were jointed or hinged to his body in a peculiar
way, with metal caps over the joints, like the armor worn by knights
in days of old. He stood perfectly still, and where the light
struck upon his form it glittered as if made of pure gold.

"Don't be frightened," called Billina, from her perch.
"It isn't alive."

"I see it isn't," replied the girl, drawing a long breath.

"It is only made out of copper, like the old kettle in the barn-yard
at home," continued the hen, turning her head first to one side and
then to the other, so that both her little round eyes could examine
the object.

"Once," said Dorothy, "I knew a man made out of tin, who was a woodman
named Nick Chopper. But he was as alive as we are, 'cause he was born
a real man, and got his tin body a little at a time--first a leg and
then a finger and then an ear--for the reason that he had so many
accidents with his axe, and cut himself up in a very careless manner."

"Oh," said the hen, with a sniff, as if she did not believe the story.

"But this copper man," continued Dorothy, looking at it with big eyes,
"is not alive at all, and I wonder what it was made for,
and why it was locked up in this queer place."

"That is a mystery," remarked the hen,
twisting her head to arrange her wing-feathers with her bill.

Dorothy stepped inside the little room to get a back view of the
copper man, and in this way discovered a printed card that hung
between his shoulders, it being suspended from a small copper peg
at the back of his neck. She unfastened this card and returned
to the path, where the light was better, and sat herself down
upon a slab of rock to read the printing.

"What does it say?" asked the hen, curiously.

Dorothy read the card aloud, spelling out the big words
with some difficulty; and this is what she read:

Code: Select all

+----------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                                                |
|                       SMITH & TINKER'S                         |
|          Patent Double-Action, Extra-Responsive,               |
|              Thought-Creating, Perfect-Talking                 |
|                       MECHANICAL MAN                           |
|        Fitted with our Special Clock-Work Attachment.          |
|        Thinks, Speaks, Acts, and Does Everything but Live.     |
|        Manufactured only at our Works at Evna, Land of Ev.     |
| All infringements will be promptly Prosecuted according to Law.|
|                                                                |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

"How queer!" said the yellow hen.
"Do you think that is all true, my dear?"

"I don't know," answered Dorothy, who had more to read.
"Listen to this, Billina:"

Code: Select all

+--------------------------------------------------+
|                                                  |
|           DIRECTIONS FOR USING:                  |
| For THINKING:--Wind the Clock-work Man under his |
|       left arm, (marked No. 1.)                  |
| For SPEAKING:--Wind the Clock-work Man under his |
|       right arm, (marked No. 2.)                 |
| For WALKING and ACTION:--Wind Clock-work in the  |
|       middle of his back, (marked No. 3.)        |
| N. B.--This Mechanism is guaranteed to work      |
|       perfectly for a thousand years.            |
|                                                  |
+--------------------------------------------------+

"Well, I declare!" gasped the yellow hen, in amazement; "if the copper
man can do half of these things he is a very wonderful machine. But
I suppose it is all humbug, like so many other patented articles."

"We might wind him up," suggested Dorothy, "and see what he'll do."

"Where is the key to the clock-work?" asked Billina.

"Hanging on the peg where I found the card."

"Then," said the hen, "let us try him, and find out if he will go.
He is warranted for a thousand years, it seems; but we do not
know how long he has been standing inside this rock."

Dorothy had already taken the clock key from the peg.

"Which shall I wind up first?" she asked,
looking again at the directions on the card.

"Number One, I should think," returned Billina.
"That makes him think, doesn't it?"

"Yes," said Dorothy, and wound up Number One, under the left arm.

"He doesn't seem any different," remarked the hen, critically.

"Why, of course not; he is only thinking, now," said Dorothy.

"I wonder what he is thinking about."

"I'll wind up his talk, and then perhaps he can tell us," said the girl.

So she wound up Number Two, and immediately the clock-work man said,
without moving any part of his body except his lips:

"Good morn-ing, lit-tle girl. Good morn-ing, Mrs. Hen."

The words sounded a little hoarse and creaky, and they were
uttered all in the same tone, without any change of expression
whatever; but both Dorothy and Billina understood them perfectly.

"Good morning, sir," they answered, politely.

"Thank you for res-cu-ing me," continued the machine, in the same
monotonous voice, which seemed to be worked by a bellows inside of
him, like the little toy lambs and cats the children squeeze
so that they will make a noise.

"Don't mention it," answered Dorothy. And then, being very curious,
she asked: "How did you come to be locked up in this place?"

"It is a long sto-ry," replied the copper man; "but I will tell
it to you brief-ly. I was pur-chased from Smith & Tin-ker, my
man-u-fac-tur-ers, by a cru-el King of Ev, named Ev-ol-do, who used to
beat all his serv-ants un-til they died. How-ev-er, he was not a-ble
to kill me, be-cause I was not a-live, and one must first live in
or-der to die. So that all his beat-ing did me no harm,
and mere-ly kept my cop-per bod-y well pol-ished.

"This cru-el king had a love-ly wife and ten beau-ti-ful
chil-dren--five boys and five girls--but in a fit of an-ger he sold
them all to the Nome King, who by means of his mag-ic arts changed
them all in-to oth-er forms and put them in his un-der-ground pal-ace
to or-na-ment the rooms.

"Af-ter-ward the King of Ev re-gret-ted his wick-ed ac-tion, and tried
to get his wife and chil-dren a-way from the Nome King, but with-out
a-vail. So, in de-spair, he locked me up in this rock, threw the key
in-to the o-cean, and then jumped in af-ter it and was drowned."

"How very dreadful!" exclaimed Dorothy.

"It is, in-deed," said the machine. "When I found my-self
im-pris-oned I shout-ed for help un-til my voice ran down; and then I
walked back and forth in this lit-tle room un-til my ac-tion ran down;
and then I stood still and thought un-til my thoughts ran down.
Af-ter that I re-mem-ber noth-ing un-til you wound me up a-gain."

"It's a very wonderful story," said Dorothy, "and proves that
the Land of Ev is really a fairy land, as I thought it was."

"Of course it is," answered the copper man.
"I do not sup-pose such a per-fect ma-chine as I am
could be made in an-y place but a fair-y land."

"I've never seen one in Kansas," said Dorothy.

"But where did you get the key to un-lock this door?"
asked the clock-work voice.

"I found it on the shore, where it was prob'ly washed up by the
waves," she answered. "And now, sir, if you don't mind,
I'll wind up your action."

"That will please me ve-ry much," said the machine.

So she wound up Number Three, and at once the copper man in a somewhat
stiff and jerky fashion walked out of the rocky cavern, took off his
copper hat and bowed politely, and then kneeled before Dorothy.
Said he:

"From this time forth I am your o-be-di-ent ser-vant. What-ev-er
you com-mand, that I will do will-ing-ly--if you keep me wound up."

"What is your name?" she asked.

"Tik-tok," he replied. "My for-mer mas-ter gave me that name
be-cause my clock-work al-ways ticks when it is wound up."

"I can hear it now," said the yellow hen.

"So can I," said Dorothy. And then she added, with some anxiety:
"You don't strike, do you?"

"No," answered Tiktok; "and there is no a-larm con-nec-ted with
my ma-chin-er-y. I can tell the time, though, by speak-ing,
and as I nev-er sleep I can wak-en you at an-y hour you wish
to get up in the morn-ing.">>
--------------------------------------------------------

[craterchains]

Cant figure out the last one?

FOCLMFAO

DVD or VHS?

Just another B.E.T. playing games, , , , , , enjoy, for now.

[neufer]

Cant figure out the last one?

Well it wasn't meant for you; it was more or less personal to Tic Toc (who I hope will backoff now and stop proselytizing).

Also, I don't think anyone here much appreciates your using profanity (even if it is abbreviated).
There is a Site Administrator (hi, Dan ) who can throw any of us out if he so pleases and I, for one, don't want him scrutinizing me.

[FieryIce]

Art, the interesting thing about proselytizing is that one has to be religious or of a political party, neither of which I am so you're wrong again.

[craterchains]

Well, Art,
I was amazed that yah got a few at all. Not many do. They are such simple questions, and not at all meant to "proselytize" anyone. Just making the point that the bible is quite the archive of technological concepts, if looked at from a non religious view point. It probably isn't prudent of me to point out your now ridiculous statement about ancient records not being relevant, or as you said it,

"I have mixed emotions about people who feel that they have to take ancient literature/scripture literally but it is fun to engage in this from time to time."

So any reason not to take such profound ancient questions, that can only be answered in our modern times, seriously would be at the least shallow. Just so, answering the questions also puts one in a position of understanding the rest of the story, and the responsibilities that goes along with that. Tough position.

Profanity? Fell Off Chair Laughing My Freaking Ass Off is profanity? Yah should have been around here for the porn site post wars awhile back. Now that was profane.

Norval

[neufer]

Art, the interesting thing about proselytizing is that one has to be religious or of a political party, neither of which I am so you're wrong again.

So you are just sounding me out then

[neufer]

Well, Art,
I was amazed that yah got a few at all. Not many do. They are such simple questions, and not at all meant to "proselytize" anyone. Just making the point that the bible is quite the archive of technological concepts, if looked at from a non religious view point. It probably isn't prudent of me to point out your now ridiculous statement about ancient records not being relevant, or as you said it,

"I have mixed emotions about people who feel that they have to take ancient literature/scripture literally but it is fun to engage in this from time to time."

So any reason not to take such profound ancient questions, that can only be answered in our modern times, seriously would be at the least shallow. Just so, answering the questions also puts one in a position of understanding the rest of the story, and the responsibilities that goes along with that. Tough position.

Fine by me so long as you take Popeye the Sailor seriously as well. (I *YAMM* serious about this. Honest!)

Profanity? Fell Off Chair Laughing My Freaking Ass Off is profanity? Yah should have been around here for the porn site post wars awhile back. Now that was profane.

I've grown up at the public school of unmoderated usergroups
where this sort of behavior is quite common.

I had assumed (an hoped) that things would be kinder & gentler
over here at this upscale Charter Magnet school...but perhaps not.

Me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Prince
Norval: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Muntz
Tic Toc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jimbo_Jones1.png

[FieryIce]

What do you mean by sounding you out?

Art, there is nothing kinder and gentler about the real world when sifting through the mounds of bovine fesses to get the truth, the true facts from the fairy tales and theories postulated as fact.

Did you think public school was tough, that was nothing! Exam the posting styles, the thread distracters and their possible motives for doing so, now there’s an eye opener.

The “ancient literature/scripture” is “quite the archive of technological concepts” and examining the books eliminated from our western bibles and their possible motives for doing so is another eye opener. To quote Edgar Goodspeed, “the Protestant side both British and American Bible societies more than a hundred years ago (1827) took a definite stand against their publication, and they have since almost disappeared”.

Art, you started the thread with the initial post “Star of Bethlehem? Near Occultation - Venus & Jupiter, June 17, 2 BC” which if you had read the ancient literature is impossible.

[neufer]

What do you mean by sounding you out?

I'm the new kid on the block and you're trying to size me up
(and possibly steal my lunch money).

Art, there is nothing kinder and gentler about the real world when sifting through the mounds of bovine fesses to get the truth, the true facts from the fairy tales and theories postulated as fact.

"Bovine fesses"?
http://www.marseille-tourisme.com/typo3 ... 443da6.jpg
FESSE, n. [L. fascia, a band.] In heraldry, a bank or girdle, possessing the third part of the escutcheon; one of the nine honorable ordinaries.

Did you think public school was tough, that was nothing! Exam the posting styles, the thread distracters and their possible motives for doing so, now there’s an eye opener.

At least in public school they knew how to spell feces/faeces/fæces.

The “ancient literature/scripture” is “quite the archive of technological concepts” and examining the books eliminated from our western bibles and their possible motives for doing so is another eye opener. To quote Edgar Goodspeed, “the Protestant side both British and American Bible societies more than a hundred years ago (1827) took a definite stand against their publication, and they have since almost disappeared”.

You're talking conspiracy theory now and I thought THAT was verboten.

Art, you started the thread with the initial post “Star of Bethlehem? Near Occultation - Venus & Jupiter, June 17, 2 BC” which if you had read the ancient literature is impossible.

Like I say there is:

1) the star of Bethlehem seen in the east for a short time by the Magi which
they somehow interpret to involve the birth of the Jewish Messiah and

2) the (Mapquest) star that leads the Magi from Jerusalem to Bethlehem.

I don't believe in the second star but the first might be based upon fact.