Starship Asterisk*

Not at all zeilouz
You may be more correct than you give yourself credit for, look into these matters which you are not sure of, read and study the concepts that are implied on your posts. I think you are very bright and who can say, someday you might even be a professor at some major university in this country, I really mean that and don’t let anyone ever tell you, you could never do that.
Some people that post on this site haven’t much regard for harry for one reason or another / possibly due to his love to provide links / But I disagree with that and I enjoy reading that which he provides with his links. If you notice he is all over this site and in-fact it’s next to impossible to find any interesting topics that he has not posted replies to. Follow his links as there is much to be learned and also to be considered in his line of thought. BBT, Plasma and an endless others, draw your own conclusions.
As per your normal atmospheric statement I believe it is something like 14.7 lbs. If I remember correctly from my scuba certification class I took in 1972.
Then here is a thought for you, rather than your endless 99999S, try this. It is my personal favorite where thinking about what infinite density might be thought of as, Look up the word Google on a math website and consider that if all the matter in the entire universe were broken down to the atoms which they are made of and counted one at a time you still would have a long way to go before you reached that Google.
Then consider what a Google plex is, now here I may be wrong but I consider infinite density and Google plex along the same lines.
One Google with a google zeros
Any thoughts on that…….harry

Good day all

>.<..im still young but i have a very deep interest on these things,next year our school will be making an astronomy club for the school,so i really want to gain some useful knowledge to tell with some of my members in the astronomy club,

I have searched a few links regarding blackholes n infinte density(or as we call singularity)

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_a ... 0912a.html

From my research,our world has a gravity with 9.8N,if we enter a blackhole,we will experience a gravity which is infinite and it is very powerful,from the textbook n some calculations i did,when we were on the surface of the moon,we would feel lighter,because the the gravity is weaker..

So,if we went inside a blackhole,we might feel as our weight will be increasing higher and higher n thus making us very heavy n drop down into the point of singularity,right?

N dont forget about the crushing density!!!

Hello All


Hello THX1138

Smile,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm just learning

As for google plex

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googleplex

The name Googleplex is a play on words, being a combination of the words Google and complex, and a reference to googolplex, the name given to the large number 10^10^100

Is that 10^1000,,,,,,,,,,,,,,wow! thats a big number.

As for atoms out there.

Most matter in the universe is in the form of degenerated matter. Most of this matter is unable to be seen, but we can notice its gravitational effects to the surroundings. Some call this matter Dark Matter or Dark Energy.

Off the top of my head.

Neutron composites have densities 10^15 to 10^18 Kg /CC
Google for Neutron Stars.

Some cosmologists think that atoms degenerate only to Neutrons, because Neutrons have a neutral charge and therfore are able to compact.

Other scientists think that Neutrons are able to degenerate down to quarks. Quark composite rangers from 10^18 up to about 10^25

Other scientists have in their back of their minds, the theoretical Preon particals that make up every other particals. Unless you think along the wave centre theory. Density up to about 10^35.

The next decade may shine more light in this area.

I have read the link

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_a ... 0912a.html

It states that

The Question
(Submitted September 12, 2001)

At the center of a black hole the singularity point has zero volume and infinite density. I know that the singularity is a point in space rather than an object with specific dimensions, but how is it possible for something to have zero volume and infinite density?


The Answer
This is indeed difficult to grasp. Actually at the center of a black hole spacetime has infinite curvature and matter is crushed to infinite density under the pull of infinite gravity. At a singularity, space and time cease to exist as we know them. The laws of physics as we know them break down at a singularity, so it's not really possible to envision something with infinite density and zero volume. You might check out the web site for further information on black holes and singularities:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/htmltest/rjn_bht.html.

In my opinion the answer is wrong. It does not have infinite curvature, infinite density or infinite gravity. It is not a singularity.

Space and time are words. They cannot be stretched or compacted. Time to us is measured via EMR as a means of communication.

Inside a compacted core or matter, the electomagnetic/ gravitaional forces exceed that of the neucleus of an atom and in so doing those forces are so great that EMR cannot escape those forces. Thats is the compacted core acts like a single neucleon unit. In a way a form of a singularity with finite dimensions if you know what I mean.

These Neucleons are distributed throughout the Milky Way, some are only a few sun masses and some about 14 sun masses others maybe a a few hundred sun masses. At the centre of the Milky Way there is a swam of so called black holes, some are thousands of time that of the sun mass and there is one that is a few million times that of the sun mass.

Hello All

I thought this link maybe of interest

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1998/AnthonyColgan.shtml
Density of Neutron Stars



http://www.milkyweb.de/astrolinks/neutronenstern.htm

Info on Neutron Stars

I had just read a book regarding blackholes,

The book states that,from a blackhole,

There is a wormhole underneath the blackhole when we travel through it,

Any specific answers about it?

Exploring a wormhole will cause the time to change,(Stops at a certain amount of value) n will transfer us from another demension

Any thoughts??

Hello Zeilous

Read up more on black holes more so the formation of compact cores such as Neutron stars.


As for worm holes, thats just theory. Never seen.

The closest thing you will see is the jets created by the so called black holes. See Pulars(Neutron stars) and M87 as good examples.

As for time,

The method of communication is via EMR. Because the compacted matter has extreme electromagnetic/gravitational forces 10 times greater than the neucleus of an atom, the EMR cannot escape from those forces and thus unable to communicate with the outside.
This does not mean that TIME stops.

Also you cannot go through a black hole,,,,,,,,,,,,thats at the movies.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE ENTER A BLACKHOLE

Suppose that, possessing a proper spacecraft and a self-destructive urge, I decide to go black-hole jumping and head for an uncharged, nonrotating ("Schwarzschild") black hole. In this and other kinds of hole, I won't, before I fall in, be able to see anything within the event horizon. But there's nothing *locally* special about the event horizon; when I get there it won't seem like a particularly unusual place, except that I will see strange optical distortions of the sky around me from all the bending of light that goes on. But as soon as I fall through, I'm doomed. No bungee will help me, since bungees can't keep Sunday from turning into Monday. I have to hit the singularity eventually, and before I get there there will be enormous tidal forces-- forces due to the curvature of spacetime-- which will squash me and my spaceship in some directions and stretch them in another until I look like a piece of spaghetti. At the singularity all of present physics is mute as to what will happen, but I won't care. I'll be dead.

For ordinary black holes of a few solar masses, there are actually large tidal forces well outside the event horizon, so I probably wouldn't even make it into the hole alive and unstretched. For a black hole of 8 solar masses, for instance, the value of r at which tides become fatal is about 400 km, and the Schwarzschild radius is just 24 km. But tidal stresses are proportional to M/r^3. Therefore the fatal r goes as the cube root of the mass, whereas the Schwarzschild radius of the black hole is proportional to the mass. So for black holes larger than about 1000 solar masses I could probably fall in alive, and for still larger ones I might not even notice the tidal forces until I'm through the horizon and doomed.

__________________________________________________________

Harry,all the links u provided are very useful,thx..=)

WORMHOLES

"timelike wormholes" which serve as gateways to otherwise disconnected regions-- effectively, different universes. Instead of hitting the singularity, I can go through the wormhole. But at the entrance to the wormhole, which acts as a kind of inner event horizon, an infinite speed-up effect actually does occur. If I fall into the wormhole I see the entire history of the universe outside play itself out to the end. Even worse, as the picture speeds up the light gets blueshifted and more energetic, so that as I pass into the wormhole an "infinite blueshift" happens which fries me with hard radiation. There is apparently good reason to believe that the infinite blueshift would imperil the wormhole itself, replacing it with a singularity no less pernicious than the one I've managed to miss. In any case it would render wormhole travel an undertaking of questionable practicality.

It does seem kinda odd that the gravity of a black hole is so intense that light cannot escape. Does this mean that the intense gravity of the object pulls the light in at a speed faster than light???

Now THAT is a good question BMA,

Hello All

The so called Black Holeis similar to any compact star cores.

The neucleon that forms Neutron stars has a density that rangers 10^15 to 10^17.

The electromagnetic/gravitatiional forces and extreme heat are about 10 times that of the neucleus of an atom. The extreme forces hold back EMR and make it part of the superfluid soup.

But! Black Holes are still an unknown. Some cosmologists think that the giant super black holes are just Neutrons forming the neucleon, highly compacted.

Others think that quarks make up the BH cores.

Others think that the theoretical preon particals make up the compact cores.

Big Unknowns

BMA,

Heres my thoughts about ur question;

Assume that,a blackhole is a vacuum,

and,when we use the vacuum,we see one cockroach,

moving very fast away from the vacuum,

assume that the cockroach is light,

n,we tried to suck the the cockroach,(with such high sucking power),

n finally the cockroach will be inside the vacuum,

so,basically, blachole is just like a vacuum,with a very powerful gravity pull,

it sucks everything inside it,no matter what,

nothing is much more faster than the speed of light,

try thinking about the cockroach n the vacuum..

Hello Zeilous

A few decades ago, I used to think along the same thoughts as you. It was fantastic to see black holes and worm holes in movies with the added strange music, making it real as could be.

Keep your thoughts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,smile.

But! keep reading, get to know how stars go supernova and leave a compacted core such as a Neutron core and sometimes the theoretical black hole.

Indeed zealous, and while not meaning to be rude at all mind you, go away for about a week and study that which harry has afore mentioned.
He is giving you nothing but the best advice and that will be very enlightening reading material.
On this question by BMAONE23 now, does anyone have any idea how fast gravity propagates, it would seem obvious that it’s ability to capture photons indefinitely places it’s speed above that of c, no?

good day all

"does anyone have any idea how fast gravity propagates, it would seem obvious that it’s ability to capture photons indefinitely places it’s speed above that of c, no? "

Or it could also be that the intense gravity of the black hole fold in a loop the space time around itself (Event horizon) and the light traveling in that loop space time is doing it at the speed of light. Then gravity didnt need to have a speed higher then light speed.

Thank you Doum
First off, and in all fairness I feel I need to state that ‘ It seems that I need to take my on advice as per what I’ve stated to zealous on this thread.
Then secondly, and perhaps more importantly
Are you then stating as fact that gravity propagates at a speed less than that of c

Hi THX 1138,

"Are you then stating as fact that gravity propagates at a speed less than that of c"

No i'm not stating that. I'm saying that gravity might have the same speed of propagation as the light have. From what i read, light as no mass so it is not influence by gravity but by the bending of space time the gravity is doing. Then for light to be trap inside a black hole the gravity must have bent spacetime into a loop. Inside it, light is moving straight forward as for us it might appear going around. That i dont know.

Hello THX1138

Gravity has been on the chopping board for many decades.

Some say that they have proven that nothing goes faster than C and yep some say that gravity travels more than 10 fold or so faster.

I feel its still on the chopping board.

Maybe this may shine some light.

[link to crackpot site deleted]

Than again Neried may put this on a crank pot list.

Yup,maybe i should learn some more,byebye for one week!

Hello Zeilous

Just keep on playing and having fun, just hold back on some shots. Smile, one week of reading is nothing, just make it a habit to read and read and read daily.

As we speak, I'm reading a few papers on star formation and neutron stars.

I have on the side, the different forms of galaxies and the possible evolution of the different galaxy forms.

What bugs me is,,,,,,,,,,,I find that the more I read the more I know very little of the bigger picture. OR should I say cosmologists know very little.

Still having fun.

this is from my research,

how fast does a blackhole sucks things in..

First,we should apply the bernouli's principle,

http://home.earthlink.net/~mmc1919/venturi.html

Assume that a blackhole is just like a whirpool,

Bernouli's principle states that as the speed of a moving fluid increases, the pressure within the fluid decreases.

----ll.............ll---
-----ll..........ll---
-------ll......ll--
---------llll----*(point of singularity)-crushed to infinite density


When an object,particle or air enter's inside the black hole,
it will experience a speed which is uniform,
when the object,particle or air comes deeper inside the blackhole,
the size of the blackhole,decreases n the object,air or particle will experience a higher speed in moving.

.....(particles,objects,lights)

----ll.............ll----Uniform velocity
-----ll..........ll---higher speed
-------ll......ll--highest speed
---------llll----*(point of singularity)-crushed to infinite density

the smaller the area of the blackhole,the faster the objects will be sucked into the blackhole,
allthough the pressure decreases,(the object)it will be crushed to an infinite density,

i have tried this experiment to proof the theory,

try taking one empty basin n put some water in it,
try to swirl the water,n drop an object into the whirlpool,
as the object gets nearer to the point of the whirpool,
it will whirl faster,

that is my idea of how fast black hole sucks things in..

any other opinions?

harry wrote:Hello THX1138

Gravity has been on the chopping board for many decades.

Some say that they have proven that nothing goes faster than C and yep some say that gravity travels more than 10 fold or so faster.

I feel its still on the chopping board.

Maybe this may shine some light.

Than again Neried may put this on a crank pot list.

Yep, and that's why it was deleted.

Hello All

Smile

Nereid, you and my wife must have the same egg shell.

I guess my theory was wrong..

Good job there zeilous “ and “ It seems that the force is with you.
The wrath of the Neried saw no reason to fall upon you and she has even
given all of us an ever so small glimpse that she does posses a sense of humor. Moreover “Heaven help me“ I believe I do like her.... Now.
Enjoy yourself on this site Zeilouz but remember, the wrath is always only one post away fom each of us " As " Harry, whom I consider one of the best and most faitfull to this site can Attest to.
Good day