APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
should read "anthropocentric"
- neufer
- Vacationer at Tralfamadore
- Posts: 18805
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
- Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
You can go back and edit it you know.robgendler wrote:
should read "anthropocentric"
Art Neuendorffer
- Chris Peterson
- Abominable Snowman
- Posts: 18459
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
- Contact:
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
Indeed, there is a tendency to think of humans as somehow being "at the top" of the evolutionary ladder. That leads to thinking that sentience is somehow an evolutionary endpoint.robgendler wrote:"If microbial life is widespread in the cosmos, we can expect that, at least here and there, sentient beings will evolve. We would then be much closer to answering that age-old puzzle of existence: Are we alone in the universe? "
Good article...except for the above grossly determistic assumption. If intelligence is highly selected for (inevitable sentient beings) then answer me the following. Arguably the second most intelligent animal on earth (the chimpanzee) has not been even remotely as successful as man from an evolutionary perspective. Also there is good evidence for the existence and subsequent extinction of multiple hominid species, all highly intelligent and likely highly conscious beings. The highly intelligent marine mammals although successful in their own way are not any more successful than sharks.....a primitive group having shown little change over 400 million years. The article was great until his last sentence which reveals obvious anthropogenic thinking and bias.
Sentience is no more impressive than teeth or claws. It either allows a species to be successful, or it does not. If humans are any example, sentience is likely not a good evolutionary path for a species, as it seems our time of existence may be limited by our very sentience.
I agree completely with the comment that bacterial life implies the emergence of sentience, at least occasionally. But it tells us nothing about how many other sentient species might exist at any one time.
Another bias comes in connecting sentience with technology. For all I know, whales and dolphins are more sentient, and more intelligent by many metrics than humans. They may well be more successful species. But since we tend to evaluate intelligence by tool use, we don't even hardly know how to consider them.
Chris
*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com
*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com
- geckzilla
- Ocular Digitator
- Posts: 9180
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm
- Location: Modesto, CA
- Contact:
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
You can't edit posts with guest accounts.neufer wrote:You can go back and edit it you know.robgendler wrote:
should read "anthropocentric"
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
Wow Chris....we actually come close to agreement on somethingChris Peterson wrote:Indeed, there is a tendency to think of humans as somehow being "at the top" of the evolutionary ladder. That leads to thinking that sentience is somehow an evolutionary endpoint.robgendler wrote:"If microbial life is widespread in the cosmos, we can expect that, at least here and there, sentient beings will evolve. We would then be much closer to answering that age-old puzzle of existence: Are we alone in the universe? "
Good article...except for the above grossly determistic assumption. If intelligence is highly selected for (inevitable sentient beings) then answer me the following. Arguably the second most intelligent animal on earth (the chimpanzee) has not been even remotely as successful as man from an evolutionary perspective. Also there is good evidence for the existence and subsequent extinction of multiple hominid species, all highly intelligent and likely highly conscious beings. The highly intelligent marine mammals although successful in their own way are not any more successful than sharks.....a primitive group having shown little change over 400 million years. The article was great until his last sentence which reveals obvious anthropogenic thinking and bias.
Sentience is no more impressive than teeth or claws. It either allows a species to be successful, or it does not. If humans are any example, sentience is likely not a good evolutionary path for a species, as it seems our time of existence may be limited by our very sentience.
I agree completely with the comment that bacterial life implies the emergence of sentience, at least occasionally. But it tells us nothing about how many other sentient species might exist at any one time.
Another bias comes in connecting sentience with technology. For all I know, whales and dolphins are more sentient, and more intelligent by many metrics than humans. They may well be more successful species. But since we tend to evaluate intelligence by tool use, we don't even hardly know how to consider them.
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
IF you could actually find that center, you most likely would not understand any of it.neufer wrote: the Beyond Center
![No. :no:](./images/smilies/no.gif)
To find the Truth, you must go Beyond.
- Chris Peterson
- Abominable Snowman
- Posts: 18459
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
- Contact:
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
I suspect we agree about a whole lot more than we disagree about. We just don't discuss our common beliefs in this forum. 'Tis the nature of Internet dialog, for the most part.robgendler wrote:Wow Chris....we actually come close to agreement on something :-).
Chris
*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com
*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
ANTHROPOCENTRIC
anthropocentric - The Free Dictionary
an·thro·po·cen·tric ( n thr -p -s n tr k). adj. 1. Regarding humans as the central element of the universe. 2. Interpreting reality exclusively in terms of human values ...
I think that's rather dumb
![Yes. :yes:](./images/smilies/yes.gif)
anthropocentric - The Free Dictionary
an·thro·po·cen·tric ( n thr -p -s n tr k). adj. 1. Regarding humans as the central element of the universe. 2. Interpreting reality exclusively in terms of human values ...
I think that's rather dumb
![Exclamation :!:](./images/smilies/icon_exclaim.gif)
![Yes. :yes:](./images/smilies/yes.gif)
To find the Truth, you must go Beyond.
- geckzilla
- Ocular Digitator
- Posts: 9180
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm
- Location: Modesto, CA
- Contact:
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
That's the status quo for humanity, though. We're all athropocentric to some degree, especially for definition 2.Beyond wrote:ANTHROPOCENTRIC
anthropocentric - The Free Dictionary
an·thro·po·cen·tric ( n thr -p -s n tr k). adj. 1. Regarding humans as the central element of the universe. 2. Interpreting reality exclusively in terms of human values ...
I think that's rather dumb![]()
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.
- rstevenson
- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
- Posts: 2705
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:24 pm
- Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
Speak for yourself. I judge everything on the basis of how well it suits dolphins and mice.geckzilla wrote:... We're all athropocentric to some degree, ... .
Rob (who is not 42)
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
Gee, it's amazing what one can find in Wikipedia. ![Yes. :yes:](./images/smilies/yes.gif)
![Yes. :yes:](./images/smilies/yes.gif)
To find the Truth, you must go Beyond.
- neufer
- Vacationer at Tralfamadore
- Posts: 18805
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
- Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
Wow, Beyond....we actually come close to agreement on somethingBeyond wrote:IF you could actually find that center, you most likely would not understand any of it.neufer wrote:
the Beyond Center
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Art Neuendorffer
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
Close as in "horseshoes", or "government work" ![Question :?:](./images/smilies/icon_question.gif)
![Question :?:](./images/smilies/icon_question.gif)
To find the Truth, you must go Beyond.
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
Every Human is Anthropocentric WRT the Visible Universegeckzilla wrote:That's the status quo for humanity, though. We're all athropocentric to some degree, especially for definition 2.Beyond wrote:ANTHROPOCENTRIC
anthropocentric - The Free Dictionary
an·thro·po·cen·tric ( n thr -p -s n tr k). adj. 1. Regarding humans as the central element of the universe. 2. Interpreting reality exclusively in terms of human values ...
I think that's rather dumb![]()
- Chris Peterson
- Abominable Snowman
- Posts: 18459
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
- Contact:
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
And the rest of it, as well.BMAONE23 wrote: Every Human is Anthropocentric WRT the Visible Universe
Chris
*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com
*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com
- geckzilla
- Ocular Digitator
- Posts: 9180
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm
- Location: Modesto, CA
- Contact:
Re: APOD: Kepler 78b: Earth Sized Planet... (2013 Nov 05)
That 'silly' astrobiology. Just a very cool public lecture by Dr. David Grinspoon aka Dr. Funkyspoon
Actual lecture starts at about 15:30 (click for direct jump) if you are short on time.
Actual lecture starts at about 15:30 (click for direct jump) if you are short on time.
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.