APOD: The Mysterious Voynich Manuscript (2010 Jan 31)

[nickpelling2]

I agree that all these inspired efforts to intuit the meaning of a 240-page document based on a single page do have _some_ value - I just happen to think that whatever this value happens to be, it is swamped by the tens of thousands of other near-identical Voynich femto-theories proposed daily on blogs / forums / websites, countless of which are similarly crafted around the vague resemblance of a single page / feature to whatever takes the author's momentary fancy.

As for making APOD readers "even more eclectic", I would have thought that this was somewhat negated by running the same picture three times in a row, as if this is the only claimed astronomical picture in the VMs. For example, there is also a significant (but most probably spurious) literature built on supposing that a cluster of seven stars apparently depicted on page f68r3 "can only" be the Pleiades; while poor old William Romaine Newbold thought Roger Bacon had depicted a spiral nebula on f68v3; and so on.

Sorry to break the bad news, but just as Egyptologists don't really need yet more conceptual theories about the pyramids or the Sphinx, Voynich researchers don't need any more casual eclecticism to be applied to their subject - the APOD Voynich page does not benefit Voynich research, and I'm struggling to see how it benefits APOD. Views going up can easily mask quality going down.

[merrymargaret]

As an amateur and non scientic person, I was wonder about it being some sort of sun dial or navigational device. Just a thought.

[bystander]

I don't think this was ever meant to be a discussion of a single page, but of the entire manuscript. It's hard to put some 238 pages on a single APOD.

[neufer]

I don't think this was ever meant to be a discussion of a single page, but of the entire manuscript. It's hard to put some 238 pages on a single APOD.

Yeah, but APOD coulda given us at least one naked lady.

• "The untold want by life and land ne'er granted,
  Now, Voynich, sail thou forth to seek and find."

[drollere]

postscript ... carbon dating of the parchment means nothing other than the *earliest* date at which the *parchment* could be produced. parchment was regularly scraped, washed and reused in the period, as it was somewhat expensive to manufacture. this sometimes resulted in a *palimpsest*, if the previous writing had been only partially removed. for that reason, many or most pages would need to be dated, to understand the origin of the volume.

[nickpelling2]

The Voynich Manuscript's vellum has been closely examined for any signs of scraping, but there were none to be seen - hence there is no evidence that any of its vellum was reused, it all appears to have been fresh vellum used for the first time.

Also, the unusual format of many of the bifolios (hexfolios, 3x3 foldout, etc) strongly suggests that the vellum for the Voynich Manuscript was bought uncut - usefully, we know that quire 9's superwide bifolio was one of the four places in the ms sampled for the radiocarbon dating. What is also interesting is that the vellum seems a little unusual for 15th century vellum: again, this could well point to the vellum having been made to order.

You could therefore reasonably argue for a gap of a few years (maybe even 10 or 20?) between the vellum's manufacture and its usage - but 50 or 100 years seems rather hopeful.

[CatchDude]

After looking at it from a astronomical/scientific point of view, I wonder what a psychiatrist would make of it. (I'm not saying that's not science.

Could it not be that someone tried to make records of psychadelic experiences in this book? It is safe to assume it would be very hard to comprehend the effect of whatever psychadelics on the minds and thoughts of someone from that age and culture for someone from our age in a 'normal' state of mind. I see it like this: What if they were studying their garden during one experience, were outside at night during the other, wondering about time another time and were amazed by dusk or dawn at the next? And then tried to draw his/their thoughts afterwards? The unreadable tekst could be part of the philosophy; it wouldn't matter what you wrote down. Being unable to turn the experience into words that descibe it fittingly, someone who would not have went throught the process wouldn't understand the true meaning behind clear words anyway. Someone who went through the psychadelic experience wouldn't need them. And someone undergoing an experience wouldn't be able to read, probably?

I assume it was written/drawn/directed by someone philosophical, with quite an amount of fantasy, knowledge about astronomy on a scholar level for that time, maybe in a place of power such as a priest, shaman, astronomer, philosopher, sage, warlock(?) or whatever with acces to mind altering substances.

[madcobalt]

Well after reading some of the post and reading some of the information available through the web, one thing I find interesting is the part where it contains constellations that are unfamiliar, so what about taking the constellations that are familiar to us and pin point an area of sky, then take the perspective of that area of space, then we might see the unfamiliar constellations from the correct perspective.

[neufer]

Well after reading some of the post and reading some of the information available through the web, one thing I find interesting is the part where it contains constellations that are unfamiliar, so what about taking the constellations that are familiar to us and pin point an area of sky, then take the perspective of that area of space, then we might see the unfamiliar constellations from the correct perspective.

Failure to Connect the Dots

[CVeitenheimer]

I’m just an IT guy with no background in these matters.
However one thing did jump out at me when I examined the photo on APOD, that 99 percent of the drawing was done free handed. The circles defiantly appear to be done with some mechanical device. And seem to be place with some precision. Has anyone tried spinning the drawing to see if it reveals anything like some type of encryption key?
Just throwing my two cents in.

[dockwatcher]

I shouldn't try to guess about this, but since I have underwear almost as old I'll give it a try.
This looks like an Atlantian laundry receipt. Twelve days to collect your dry cleaning may seam tight but when you look at their convienant hours it should be reasonable. This receit looks to be for seven pants and three shackels.

[strongria]

I was going to refer to Edith Sherwood's work, which suggesting that the manuscript's author was a young Leonardo da Vinci: http://www.edithsherwood.com - I see a couple of others have already done so. She seems to make a good case.

Of course, there's this as an alternative theory: http://xkcd.com/593

[ron.gerts]

The answer may begin with a forensic study of the manuscript. Finding dna can tell something about the ethnic origin of people who have handled the manuscript, and possibly the ethnicity of the author. Analyzing the age and chemical composition of the inks may determine where the manuscript was written. This may not answer the questions, but it may start the search for answers on fact instead of the current speculation.l

[giversen]

The center sure doesn't look like any characterization of the Sun (see APOD descriptive text) that I've ever seen. It certainly fits the personalification of the Moon better.

[astrodave]

Has anyone ever viewed this image in a mirror? I just did, and it looks like it could be Italian, in a fancy script. Just a thought.

[Antediluvian]

Antediluvian remnant that was copied from surviving fragments and passed hand to hand through the ages. This volume is written in the original language of the first visitors who arrived and colonized earth. The only hand copy known and being preserved as of this date in time on Earth. Front plate is a calculator which contains the keys for the entire work and also maps the path to the additional volumes. Mostly a reference book or science log with knowledge from the ancients coupled with new knowledge (notes) of this solar system. One book or the first book of a volume as indicated by the volume number printed on the front plate. Remaining originals are still buried in a special chest on the planet Mars. Those volumes contain advanced knowledge that we will be ready to utilize (not destroy one another with) when we finally are able to get there and dig it up. That should be around the year 2120. The language is universal to this galaxy.

[The Code]

Antediluvian remnant that was copied from surviving fragments and passed hand to hand through the ages. This volume is written in the original language of the first visitors who arrived and colonized earth. The only hand copy known and being preserved as of this date in time on Earth. Front plate is a calculator which contains the keys for the entire work and also maps the path to the additional volumes. Mostly a reference book or science log with knowledge from the ancients coupled with new knowledge (notes) of this solar system. One book or the first book of a volume as indicated by the volume number printed on the front plate. Remaining originals are still buried in a special chest on the planet Mars. Those volumes contain advanced knowledge that we will be ready to utilize (not destroy one another with) when we finally are able to get there and dig it up. That should be around the year 2120. The language is universal to this galaxy.

You any good at archeology?

[fangy]

IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!

[jacklap]

My first impression when I viewed this APOD image was that of a circular calculator or decoder of some type. It's a rendering of an actual device with multiple rotating concentric rings. The top narrative is a description of the device and its workings. Got me what it says, tho! I'll get the scissors out and try to build one.

[John Scales]

Has anyone noticed the National Geographic program shown this evening on Public Television (Houston, Texas). It concerned the Kingdom of Mustang and the investigation of ancient manuscripts found in mountain caves. Of the hundreds of manuscript pages found there, one was shown to the camera. For the short moment that it was shown, the document looked very similiar to the Voynich Manuscript shown on APOD.

[geckzilla]

Did it look like this?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... 32981.html

Passing resemblance, yeah. But not really. They're religious writings and not very mysterious. And a lot more skillfully crafted, if you ask me...

[FieryIce]

Did it look like this?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... 32981.html

Passing resemblance, yeah. But not really. They're religious writings and not very mysterious. And a lot more skillfully crafted, if you ask me...

Just a side note.
geckzilla why would you post a link such as that?

What kind of skull would have a mold seam down the entire side?

[FieryIce]

Antediluvian remnant that was copied from surviving fragments and passed hand to hand through the ages. This volume is written in the original language of the first visitors who arrived and colonized earth. The only hand copy known and being preserved as of this date in time on Earth. Front plate is a calculator which contains the keys for the entire work and also maps the path to the additional volumes. Mostly a reference book or science log with knowledge from the ancients coupled with new knowledge (notes) of this solar system. One book or the first book of a volume as indicated by the volume number printed on the front plate. Remaining originals are still buried in a special chest on the planet Mars. Those volumes contain advanced knowledge that we will be ready to utilize (not destroy one another with) when we finally are able to get there and dig it up. That should be around the year 2120. The language is universal to this galaxy.

You have a couple of very interesting ideas. I highlighted a couple I have suspected over the years along with DNA testing, manipulation and tracking change over generations. Is there such a thing as error in replication through the generations; is that better described as lesser in statue?

[BMAONE23]

Did it look like this?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... 32981.html

Passing resemblance, yeah. But not really. They're religious writings and not very mysterious. And a lot more skillfully crafted, if you ask me...

Just a side note.
geckzilla why would you post a link such as that?

What kind of skull would have a mold seam down the entire side?

The writing in the image does resemble that of the manuscript.
Though the entire APOD Image Page resembles a Zodiac chart of sorts.
(Perhaps it is written in the Ancient Cylon Language and speaks of the 12 planets of Cobol) (Geminon, Arieon, Scorpion, Capricon, Tauron, etc)

[bystander]

What kind of skull would have a mold seam down the entire side?

Cylons, indeed. As mark would say:

You any good at archeology?

Most likely a plaster cast made of the original to prevent damage in further handling.
What I can't believe, is that they are handling the manuscript without gloves.