APOD: Fomalhaut b (2008 Nov 14)

Doum · Post by **Doum** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:14 am

That is more interesting then Sputnick opinion. WOW!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27702538

Like redshift bring the big bang theory, that is a fact picture. Like it or not. Thats what count. So....

(Drunk too here.)

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap081114.html

harry · Post by **harry** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:21 am

G'day from the land of ozzzzz

News Release - heic0821: Hubble directly observes planet orbiting Fomalhaut
http://www.spacetelescope.org/news/html/heic0821.html

13-Nov-2008: The NASA/ESA Hubble Space Telescope has taken the first visible light snapshot of a planet circling another star.

Estimated to be no more than three times Jupiter's mass, the planet, called Fomalhaut b, orbits the bright southern star Fomalhaut, located 25 light-years away in the constellation Piscis Austrinus (the Southern Fish).

This planet must be from the land of ozzzzzzzzz.

apodman · Post by **apodman** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:32 am

Time to pay off on the office pool. Who had Fomalhaut?

Helio George · Post by **Helio George** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:08 am

Fomalhaut b image was the first Hubble direct image of a planet beyond our solar system... EVER. [Surprisingly, yesterday also introduced three directly imaged planets around the star HR8799 by the Keck and Gemini team.]

Nov. 13th marks another wonderful milestone in astronomy. Congrats to all astronomers.

It was 1781 when William Herschel announced for the very first time a planet was discovered -- the others were obviously known for eons till then.

Therefore, since Herschel was not allowed the name he chose for his planet (and they went with Uranus???), I propose we name the first planet with him in mind. Whatever name he used then might work great now. I think it began with a G, right?

JDsg · Post by **JDsg** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:34 am

The Economist http://www.economist.com/science/displa ... d=12592240 (of all magazines) has an article in today's issue on the three planets of HR 8799. I also suspect we'll consider this photo http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080919.html to be the first visual photograph of a planet, unlike the two more recent pictures.

Helio George · Post by **Helio George** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:50 pm

The Economist? Ug. I never did see it in Yahoo or in mainstream news. Did anyone???

I could be wrong, but wouldn't the fact that Folmhault b was imaged in 2004 count it as first? Yesterday seems to be a confirmation of that event, which I assume was earlier than the others, or was it?

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:34 pm

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap081114.html

<<Explanation: Fomalhaut (sounds like "foam-a-lot") is a bright, young, star, a short 25 light-years from planet Earth in the direction of the constellation Piscis Austrinus. In this sharp composite from the Hubble Space Telescope, Fomalhaut's surrounding ring of dusty debris is imaged in detail, with overwhelming glare from the star masked by an occulting disk in the camera's coronagraph. Astronomers now identify, the tiny point of light in the small box at the right as a planet about 3 times the mass of Jupiter orbiting 10.7 billion miles from the star (almost 14 times the Sun-Jupiter distance). Designated Fomalhaut b, the massive planet probably shapes and maintains the ring's relatively sharp inner edge, while the ring itself is likely a larger, younger analog of our own Kuiper Belt - the solar system's outer reservoir of icy bodies.>>
-------------------------------------
A law was made a distant moon ago here:
July and August cannot be too hot.
And there's a legal limit to the snow here
In Fomalhaut.

The winter is forbidden till December
And exits March the second on the dot.
By order, summer lingers through September
In Fomalhaut.

Fomalhaut! Fomalhaut!
I know it sounds a bit bizarre,
But in Fomalhaut, Fomalhaut
That's how conditions are.

The rain may never fall till after sundown.
By eight, the morning fog must disappear.
In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Fomalhaut.

Fomalhaut! Fomalhaut!
I know it gives a person pause,
But in Fomalhaut, Fomalhaut
Those are the legal laws.

The snow may never slush upon the hillside.
By nine p.m. the moonlight must appear.
In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Fomalhaut.

(With apologies to Lerner and Loewe)

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:56 pm

Snapshot of an exoplanet
Astronomers capture first optical photo of exoplanet orbiting nearby star.
Provided by University of California, Berkeley
Astronomy.com - November 13, 2008

Astronomers capture first images of newly discovered solar system
A team of researchers was able to see three orbiting planetary companions to HR8799 using high-contrast, near-infrared adaptive optics observations.
Provided by Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Astronomy.com - November 13, 2008

Extrasolar planetary system makes pictorial debut
First images of planetary system beyond the solar system released
ScienceNews - November 13, 2008

Hubble Sees Planet Orbiting Another Star
Hubble Directly Observes a Planet Orbiting Another Star
NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has taken the first visible-light snapshot of a planet circling another star.
11.13.08 - NASA News Release: 08-289

iamlucky13 · Post by **iamlucky13** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:56 pm

JDsg wrote:The Economist http://www.economist.com/science/displa ... d=12592240 (of all magazines) has an article in today's issue on the three planets of HR 8799. I also suspect we'll consider this photo http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080919.html to be the first visual photograph of a planet, unlike the two more recent pictures.

Aha! I was trying to find that picture. Thanks.

The biggest difference I know of about that picture is it was taken in infrared. It's still very young, and was only visible because it's still cooling down from its formation. Some have already been qualifying their statements about Fomalhaut-b by saying first visible-light picture. A lesser difference is that the processing method the Gemini telescope uses to eliminate the light from the nearby star sort of stretches the definition of "picture," but I don't think there's any serious doubts the object is real.

Also, as of the article that older APOD is based off of, astronomers hadn't confirmed it's orbiting the star it was pictured with. It sits about 3 times further from its star than Fomalhaut-b does from Fomalhaut. It could be free in space, in which case it wouldn't be the first such object. If it is orbiting, it challenges models of solar system formation, and I suspect some astronomers may propose that our solar system could have had similar large gas giants orbiting beyond the Kuiper Belt that may have been stripped away by gravitational interactions with other systems over billions of years.

Helio George wrote:It was 1781 when William Herschel announced for the very first time a planet was discovered -- the others were obviously known for eons till then.

Therefore, since Herschel was not allowed the name he chose for his planet (and they went with Uranus???), I propose we name the first planet with him in mind. Whatever name he used then might work great now. I think it began with a G, right?

Great idea!

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:40 pm

Helio George wrote:It was 1781 when William Herschel announced for the very first time a planet was discovered -- the others were obviously known for eons till then.
Therefore, since Herschel was not allowed the name he chose for his planet (and they went with Uranus???), I propose we name the first planet with him in mind. Whatever name he used then might work great now. I think it began with a G, right?

. King Richard III > Act I, scene I
.
CLARENCE: He hearkens after prophecies and dreams;
. And from the cross-row plucks the letter G.
. And says a wizard told him that by G
. His issue disinherited should be;
-------------------------------------------------------
"In the fabulous ages of ancient times the appellations of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn were given to the Planets, as being the names of their principal heroes and divinities. In the present more philosophical era it would hardly be allowable to have recourse to the same method and call it Juno, Pallas, Apollo or Minerva, for a name to our new heavenly body. The first consideration of any particular event, or remarkable incident, seems to be its chronology: if in any future age it should be asked, when this last-found Planet was discovered? It would be a very satisfactory answer to say, 'In the reign of King George the Third.' " - William Herschel

In the reign of George Bush the Second?

rigelan · Post by **rigelan** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:55 pm

Yes! I was excited to see it in the news last night, as well as on the radio this morning.

apodman · Post by **apodman** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:14 am

neufer wrote:(With apologies to Lerner and Loewe)

Apologies aside, they got their glory with 60 weeks atop the charts with the original cast album.

And I know two people who still sing that tune with feeling after 48 years.

I forwarded them your groaner and they will love it.

apodman · Post by **apodman** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:23 am

And has there been another historical occurrence? In my experience, this is the first time a Café thread has been merged into an APOD thread. Usually the flow goes the other way. We might need to reconsider the laws of physics. On the other hand, a thread that anticipated the next day's APOD might have been predictable in this case.

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:01 am

With all that apparent gas and dust surrounding the star perhaps it will form a lot of planets

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:35 am

apodman wrote:And has there been another historical occurrence? In my experience, this is the first time a Café thread has been merged into an APOD thread. Usually the flow goes the other way. We might need to reconsider the laws of physics. On the other hand, a thread that anticipated the next day's APOD might have been predictable in this case.

Actually, the first I know of was Young Star With Hot Planet, Gemini N gets pic (19Sep08) (discussion of the APOD JDsg mentions above). Harry's OP was in the Café. This one, however, had two Café threads merged into it. Both Doum's and Harry's posts were in the Café.

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:00 am

BMAONE23 wrote:With all that apparent gas and dust surrounding the star perhaps it will form a lot of planets

It's my understanding that the dust cloud outside the planets orbit is more like our Oort cloud. There's plenty of room between the planet and the star for other planets to exist in stable orbits. What I found amazing was the extreme elliptical nature of the planets orbit. See the animation at http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubbl ... lhaut.html

geckzilla · Post by **geckzilla** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:27 pm

Heh, somehow astronauts drinking their own "urine" is overshadowing this news. Sigh.

apodman · Post by **apodman** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:41 pm

geckzilla wrote:Heh, somehow astronauts drinking their own "urine" is overshadowing this news. Sigh.

Sure glad I checked for new posts before breakfast.

astrolabe · Post by **astrolabe** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:54 pm

Hello All,

Didn't go as well for the old circumnavigators.

tricera · Post by **tricera** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:24 pm

Can somebody help me with this?....
About the image, HubbleSite says .... "The radial streaks are scattered starlight."
These streaks aren't something you'd see up close, are they? Would they retain their arrow straight courses while ploughing through all that dust? Are they lens artifacts?

Thanks
Mark

Chris Peterson · Post by **Chris Peterson** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:35 pm

tricera wrote:Can somebody help me with this?....
About the image, HubbleSite says .... "The radial streaks are scattered starlight."
These streaks aren't something you'd see up close, are they? Would they retain their arrow straight courses while ploughing through all that dust? Are they lens artifacts?

The radial streaks are light from Fomalhaut (which isn't perfectly masked) scattered by optics in the telescope and camera. It has nothing to do with scatter from dust in space.

tricera · Post by **tricera** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:56 pm

Thanks Chris. So the dust belt itself would appear as a fairly homogeneous mass close up?

Mark

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:59 pm

apodman wrote:
geckzilla wrote:Heh, somehow astronauts drinking their own "urine" is overshadowing this news. Sigh.
Sure glad I checked for new posts before breakfast.

If Venus has a Venereal atmosphere does Uranus have a Uranal atmosphere?
---------------------------------
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Uranus

<<Originally set to be named Uranal, Herschel decided to name his discovery Georgium Sidus, which is Latin for George's Star, thereby honoring the then King of England George III. Others felt that since the other planets had mythological names, this tradition should be followed and it was officially named Uranus. This unfortunate nomenclature has made Uranus the butt of many jokes. Some still insist upon saying "youranus" even though the correct pronunciation is closer to "urinous". Although people today find the name incredibly silly and moronic, it still sounded just as idiotic and embarrassing even back in Herschel's day. That's why Tycho Brache named his observatory Uraniborg. During the 2006 meeting of the International Astronomical Union (which eventually robbed Mickey Mouse planet Pluto of its planetary status) a proposal was put forth by Dr. Pierre Giovanni Gustafson. He stated that if they really needed to demote a planet, just on name alone, Uranus deserved serious disqualification.>>
-----------------------
Urophagia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urophagia

<<Urophagia is the consumption of urine. There are various reasons that humans may consume urine. Urine was used in several ancient cultures for various health, healing, and cosmetic purposes; practices which are still used by some people of these cultures today. In Western culture, these practices are known as urine therapy, a form of alternative medicine.
.
Other reasons for urophagia include attempting survival, if no other potable fluid is available; though numerous sources advise against it. Also, some people consume urine as a sexual activity. Members of at least one culture consume urine for ceremonial purposes.

Health considerations

Consuming one's own urine (or the urine of a healthy person, if participating in urolagnia involving urophagia) is relatively low in risk. Bacterial infection of the urinating person's urethra, or disease in the person urinating may pose a risk. Elements of medications and dietary supplements can be excreted in urine, which can effect the person consuming the urine. Also, if urine comes into contact with the skin, it can cause a rash in sensitive individuals.

The main dangers are the high salt and mineral content. The high salt content usually does not pose a problem if the urine is sufficiently diluted, and not consumed in mass quantities. The effect of the high salt may be mitigated by drinking some water after consuming urine. The urine may be diluted if the person drinks some water an hour or so before producing the urine that will be consumed.

Urine should not be drank when dehydrated. The kidneys, which filter the urine, concentrate salts into the urine. Drinking the urine will only make one reingest the salts that have already been excreted by the kidneys. For the first fifteen minutes after ingestion of any fluid, the thirst seems to be quenched, but in the case of urine and other salty liquid, after the body has absorbed the fluid, the thirst returns, stronger, due to the salt.

Bacterial contamination

The urethra contains bacteria, hence many urine therapy practitioners use mid-stream urine, in order to allow the first few seconds of urination to wash out the bacteria within the urethra. This is also why many physicians ask for a urine sample mid-stream.

Flavor and odor

Since artificial sweeteners are excreted in urine, consuming artificial sweetener (such as in diet soda) before engaging in urophagia can lend a sweet taste to the urine, which may be of particular interest to those performing the activity for sexual pleasure. Consuming asparagus causes the person's urine to have an unpleasant smell with about 40–79% of people.

If the taste of sugar is detected in an individual's urine, and it is known that artificial sweetener has not been consumed, this may be a sign of diabetes. If put through a household water filter, urine will become odorless and the flavor will be reduced.

Attempting survival

Drinking urine for survival is advised against by numerous survival instructors and guides, inluding the US Army Field Manual. These guides explain that drinking urine tends to worsen, rather than relieve dehydration due to the salts in it, and that urine should not be consumed in a survival situation, even when there is no other fluid available.

Aron Ralston used the technique when trapped for several days with his arm under a boulder, and Bear Grylls of the Discovery Channel's Man vs. Wild drank his own urine while he was in the Outback of Australia. Relatedly, Les Stroud on Survivorman advised against drinking pure urine, instead producing drinkable water from urine using a solar still.

Ceremonial

The Koryak people of Siberia are reported to have used the psychoactive Amanita muscaria mushroom, commonly known as fly agaric, as a ceremonial entheogen. The active alkaloids are unchanged as they pass through the human body, allowing the urine to retain the intoxicating effects of the mushroom: those who drank the urine of those using the mushroom would experience the psychoactive effects, themselves. Tribesmen who could not afford the mushrooms drank the urine of those who could; tribesmen drank their own urine in order to prolong the experience; and tribesmen on trips carried their own urine with them.>>
-------------------------------------------

Chris Peterson · Post by **Chris Peterson** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:29 pm

tricera wrote:Thanks Chris. So the dust belt itself would appear as a fairly homogeneous mass close up?

Close up or far away, it makes no difference. Better to say it would appear fairly homogeneous if viewed without artifacts. In fact, the eye/brain is an excellent filter for removing these sorts of highly structured artifacts. Since the radial scatter is seen both inside and outside the dust ring, I find it quite easy to view the image and remove the artifacts in my mind's eye, leaving what I perceive to be your homogeneous dust ring.

tricera · Post by **tricera** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:36 am

Close up or far away, it makes no difference. Better to say it would appear fairly homogeneous if viewed without artifacts.

Thanks. If it's the same thing as lens eye/artifacts Ithink I understand.
I'm trying to put together a decent graphical representation of how it might look close up. For example, if I was floating in the position of Fomalhaut B and facing away from the star, I would see the thin illuminated inside edge of the belt of dust? There looks to be some kind of light diffusion inside and a bit outside the belt. Is this also glare from starlight, or is there still a significant amount of dust inside the belt reflecting light? And the CG image (http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archiv ... /image/d/) in the press release, Fomalhaut B isn't actually ploughing through illuminated dust like this, is it?

Thanks
Mark

Starship Asterisk*