Eggs standing straight up... (APOD 21 Sep 2008)

daedalus · Post by **daedalus** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:08 am

Sorry guys, but this just ain't cutting it for me. Slow day at the web site?

I don't mean to be obnoxious as I really dig the site and usually check in every day. But sometimes you folks put things up that look like you had a really hard time finding something that day.

makc · Post by **makc** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:09 am

Join the club

Any way, still beats those days when they repeat pictures from the past.

daedalus · Post by **daedalus** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:15 am

Too bad you folks can't get more amateur contributions. That recent solar eclipse photo was great. Shoot, I wish I had the equipment and skills to contribute something.

apodman · Post by **apodman** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:22 pm

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080921.html

Astronomy? It's a myth about the laws of the Universe that every school kid needs busted sooner or later, so yeah, okay.

Picture? A little bit low resolution for a terrestrial shot, but it gets points for composition - just look at the reflection in the counter top, and decode the secret alien message in the letters on the refrigerator (or maybe it's a message to aliens). Also, your local tv meaty-ore-ologist usually only uses one egg (budget concerns with the internet siphoning off all those local coverage media dollars), so this is 3 times as good. As a bottom line, it does illustrate the intended point.

Of the Day?

makc wrote:... beats those days when they repeat pictures from the past.

This picture is from 10 years in the past, though it doesn't lose many points if it isn't a repeat. But it still gets an "A" for "the Day" because it's near the pertinent day of the year.

Conclusion (calculated opinion)? Pass, with the obvious notation that this is an APOD not from the center of the cluster.

Now back to the emotional messages everyone would rather read:

Boy does APOD get my blood boiling. I woke up this morning thinking, "I'll bet everyone pronounces 'APOD' to themselves with a long 'A' like they are pronouncing the letter of the alphabet instead of the 'A' sound from the word 'Astronomy'." I don't think we should move forward until we can all agree on a standard pronunciation.

Tatiana · Post by **Tatiana** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:34 pm

I think it's cool that this site educates people about astronomy, and people who read it every day over time end up understanding a whole lot more about the universe. Part of that involves debunking people's misconceptions. The egg balancing-on-the-equinox trick is one of those. The preferred method of egg-balancing for tricksters in my house is to start with a small pile of salt, balance the egg on the salt, then gently blow away the salt leaving only those grains that are trapped under the egg keeping it balanced. That way nobody can see the remaining salt and the egg seems to be suspended on its own.

Part of learning about astronomy is learning what's NOT true that people believed throughout history, like learning the difference between astronomy and astrology, learning that comets don't really portend the death of kings, and so on. It's strange to me that so many people feel intuitively that whatever happens in the sky profoundly affects us here on earth, but they don't really want to learn about the rest of the universe outside our planet, what's really out there.

They don't care that there are near-earth-orbit asteroids that could take us out some day, and that we need to get rid of them as soon as possible. They don't want to hear that the Sun is a slightly variable star that could vary over time and change our climate substantially. And they don't seem to want to realize how very, very small we are compared to the rest of the universe. All the REAL ways in which the universe matters, people often don't seem to care that much about. Instead they want to believe that where the sun is relative to the stars and planets at the instant a person was born affects the person's personality. Huh?

So anyway, I'm glad for APODs like this one. =)

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:37 pm

Tatiana wrote:I think it's cool that this site educates people about astronomy, and people who read it every day over time end up understanding a whole lot more about the universe. Part of that involves debunking people's misconceptions. The egg balancing-on-the-equinox trick is one of those. The preferred method of egg-balancing for tricksters in my house is to start with a small pile of salt, balance the egg on the salt, then gently blow away the salt leaving only those grains that are trapped under the egg keeping it balanced. That way nobody can see the remaining salt and the egg seems to be suspended on its own.

Part of learning about astronomy is learning what's NOT true that people believed throughout history, like learning the difference between astronomy and astrology, learning that comets don't really portend the death of kings, and so on. It's strange to me that so many people feel intuitively that whatever happens in the sky profoundly affects us here on earth, but they don't really want to learn about the rest of the universe outside our planet, what's really out there.

They don't care that there are near earth orbit asteroids that could take us out some day, and that we need to get rid of them as soon as possible. They don't want to hear that the Sun is a slightly variable star that could vary over time and change our climate substantially. And they don't seem to want to realize how very, very small we are compared to the rest of the universe. All the REAL ways in which the universe matters, people often don't seem to care that much about. Instead they want to believe that where the sun is relative to the stars and planets at the instant a person was born affects the person's personality. Huh?

So anyway, I'm glad for APODs like this one. =)

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080921.html

Light yolk slowly rises => center of gravity drops => egg balances?
...........................................................
The specific gravity of all four parts of the egg are different:

shell, 2.325
shell membranes, 1.075
albumen, 1.038
yolk, 1.032
----------------------------------------
Humpty Dumpty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty

<<Humpty Dumpty is a character in a Nursery rhyme typically portrayed as an egg. Most English-speaking children are familiar with the rhyme:

. Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
. Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
. All the king's horses and all the king's men
. Couldn't put Humpty together again.

It should be noted that it is not stated in the rhyme that Humpty Dumpty is an egg. In its first printed form in 1810, the rhyme is posed as a riddle and exploits for misdirection the fact that "humpty dumpty" was also 18th-Century reduplicative slang for a short and clumsy person; the riddle being that whereas a clumsy person falling off a wall would not be irreparably damaged, an egg would be.

Previous to the "little, clumsy person" meaning, "humpty dumpty" referred to a drink of brandy boiled with ale. There are also various theories of an original "Humpty Dumpty". As some are mutually exclusive, the theories necessarily include false etymologies.

. * According to an insert taken from the East Anglia Tourist Board in England, Humpty Dumpty was a powerful cannon used in the Siege of Colchester during the English Civil War. It was mounted on top of the St Mary's at the Wall Church in Colchester defending the city against siege in the summer of 1648. Although Colchester was a royalist stronghold, it was besieged by the Roundheads for 11 weeks before finally falling. The church tower was hit by enemy cannon fire and the top of the tower was blown off, sending "Humpty" tumbling to the ground. Naturally all the King's horses and all the King's men (royalist cavalry and infantry respectively) tried to mend "him" but in vain. Other reports have Humpty Dumpty referring to a sniper nicknamed One-Eyed Thompson, who occupied the same church tower.

. Visitors to Colchester can see the reconstructed Church tower as they reach the top of Balkerne Hill on the left hand side of the road. An extended version of the rhyme gives additional verses, including the following:

. . In Sixteen Hundred and Forty-Eight
. . When England suffered the pains of state
. . The Roundheads lay siege to Colchester town
. . Where the King's men still fought for the crown
. . There One-Eyed Thompson stood on the wall
. . A gunner of deadliest aim of all
. . From St. Mary's Tower his cannon he fired
. . Humpty-Dumpty was its name
. . Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall...

. * In another theory, Humpty Dumpty referred to King Richard III of England, the hunchbacked monarch, the "Wall" being either the name of his horse (called "White Surrey" in Shakespeare's play), or a reference to the supporters who deserted him. During the battle of Bosworth Field, he fell off his steed and was said to have been "hacked into pieces".

. * The story of Cardinal Wolsey's downfall is supposedly depicted in the children's nursery rhyme of Humpty Dumpty. At length Cawood Castle (Cawood, a village in Yorkshire, seven miles southwest of York) passed to Cardinal Wolsey, who let it fall into disrepair in the early part of his career (1514 - 1530), due to his residence at the Court, devotion to temporal affairs and his neglect of his diocesan duties. King Henry VIII sent Wolsey back home in 1523 after he failed to obtain a divorce from the Pope - a huge mistake on Wolsey's part. Wolsey returned to the castle and began to restore it to its former grandeur. However, he was arrested for high treason in November, 1530 and ordered to London for trial. He left on 6 November, but took ill at Leicester and died in the Abbey there on 29 November.

. * An explanation given on a British radio programme described Humpty Dumpty as a siege tower, used by the Cavaliers (King's Men) during the English civil war. Unfortunately, as it was poorly designed, the tower often toppled over when it was full of men and broke. Hence, "All the King's horses and all the King's men, couldn't put Humpty together again."

. * In another twist Humpty Dumpty was the name of a cannon which was upon the wall of Edinburgh Castle (dates and times unclear)and that the cannon one day (while firing) exploded into a thousand pieces, scattering bits of it far and wide with whatever was left in a shattered heap at the bottom of the wall.

Humpty appears in Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking-Glass, where he discusses semantics and pragmatics with Alice. Among other things, he (mis-)explains the difficult words from Jabberwocky. Like all of the characters in the story (aside from those who feature within the Jabberwocky poem itself) he is a Chess-piece, or more specifically the Red Rook, and his falling from the wall with a "very heavy crash [which shakes] the forest from end to end" represents his being "taken" by a piece on the White side.>>
---------------------------------------------------
Alice waited a minute to see if [Humpty Dumpty] would speak again, but as he never opened his eyes or took any further notice of her, she said `Good-bye!' once more, and, getting no answer to this, she quietly walked away: but she couldn't help saying to herself as she went, `Of all the unsatisfactory -- ' (she repeated this aloud, as it was a great comfort have such a long word to say) `of all the unsatisfactory people I ever met -- ' She never finished the sentence, for at this moment a heavy crash shook the forest from end to end.
.
The next moment soldiers came running through the wood, at first in twos and threes, then ten or twenty together, and at last in such crowds that they seemed to fill the whole forest. Alice got behind a tree, for fear of being run over, and watched them go by.
.
She thought that in all her life she had never seen soldiers so uncertain on their feet: they were always tripping over something or other, and whenever one went down, several more always fell over him, so that the ground was soon covered with little heaps of men.
.
Then came the horses. Having four feet, these managed rather better than the foot-soldiers: but even they stumbled now and then; and it seemed to be a regular rule that, whenever a horse stumbled the rider fell off instantly. The confusion got worse every moment, and Alice was very glad to get out of the wood into an open place, where she found the White King seated on the ground, busily writing in his memorandum-book.
.
`I've sent them all!' the King cried in a tone of delight, on seeing Alice. `Did you happen to meet any soldiers, my dear, as you came through the wood?'
.
`Yes, I did,' said Alice: several thousand, I should think.'
.
`Four thousand two hundred and seven, that's the exact number,' the King said, referring to his book. `I couldn't send all the horses, you know, because two of them are wanted in the game. And I haven't sent the two Messengers, either.'

apodman · Post by **apodman** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:55 pm

Tatiana wrote:I think it's cool ...

I think it's cool that another person who can organize thoughts and write coherently has joined the forum. (No offense to previous members who are wonderful too.) Welcome.

Tatiana wrote:They don't care that there are near-earth-orbit asteroids that could take us out some day ... that the Sun ... could vary over time and change our climate substantially.

Men in Black wrote:K: "There's always an Arquillian Battle Cruiser, or a Corillian Death Ray, or an intergalactic plague that is about to wipe out all life on this miserable little planet, and the only way these people can get on with their happy lives is that they Do ... Not ... Know about it!"

loujudson · Post by **loujudson** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:10 pm

I would rather have an astronomy photo than a kitchen shot. Even if the guy in the picture plays an astronomer on the web.

Myths and science are great, but I look to APOD for astronomy, not popmythology, unless the myths are about astronomy.

Thanks for the other photos, though.

Lou

rigelan · Post by **rigelan** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:32 pm

Astronomy has nothing to do with the Earth. The earth is not a planet. It does not rotate, and even if it did, the rotation would have nothing to do with egg-balancing or even the movement of the stars over the course of the night.

---- OR -----

The rotation of the Earth plays a major role in our understanding of astronomy. Astronomy is not just about the stars and planets. . . It is about OUR perception of the stars and planets. There is a very big human aspect of astronomy.

Its not just about putting a goofy (or splendid) picture online. Its about teaching us how to think about where we live. And without some basic knowledge about how the earth moves and behaves, we lose some of the knowledge about how the universe or the planets or the stars move and behave.

loujudson · Post by **loujudson** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:37 pm

Rogelan, I was expressing my prefernces in imagery. not participating in a debate about the importance of understanding. Your two choices above and irrelevant to my preference for space pictures, not kitchen pictures.

Lou

PS - I assume you were tyrying to repond to my recent comment. If not, we simply are not seeing the same ideas...

apodman · Post by **apodman** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:42 pm

http://www.answers.com/topic/egg-on

Egg on: to stir to action or feeling: excite, foment, galvanize, goad, impel, incite, inflame, inspire, instigate, motivate, move, pique, prick, prod, prompt, propel, provoke, set off, spur, stimulate, touch off, trigger, work up. See cause/effect, excite/bore/interest.

Idioms: Egg on
Incite, urge ahead, provoke, as in Jack is always egging me on to drive faster, or ... Margo actually eggs on Donald to quarrel with his staff. This expression has nothing to do with hen's eggs but comes from an Old Norse word, eggja, "to edge." Both edge on and egg on were used interchangeably, but today the latter is preferred. (c. 1200)

Earth is not a planet! Earth is not an egg! The IGY determined Earth is a pear.

loujudson wrote:I was expressing ... not participating in a debate

It's the law of unintended consequences again. Around here (just like every time I open my mouth in the "real world"), everything you say is part of somebody's debate whether you like it or not and no matter how uncontroversially you manage to express yourself. Just grin and duck.

Tilt · Post by **Tilt** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:04 pm

Bad Bad Astronomy:

http://www.bautforum.com/bad-astronomy- ... ntact.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/movies/contact.html

In Other News ----

Un petit d'un petit s'etonne aux Halles....

Also -----

How's about a pic of the two shuttles at pads 39A & B?

(my double vision always seems to get the best of me.................)

Andy Wade · Post by **Andy Wade** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:09 pm

rigelan wrote:Astronomy has nothing to do with the Earth. The earth is not a planet. It does not rotate, and even if it did, the rotation would have nothing to do with egg-balancing or even the movement of the stars over the course of the night.

---- OR -----

The rotation of the Earth plays a major role in our understanding of astronomy. Astronomy is not just about the stars and planets. . . It is about OUR perception of the stars and planets. There is a very big human aspect of astronomy.

Its not just about putting a goofy (or splendid) picture online. Its about teaching us how to think about where we live. And without some basic knowledge about how the earth moves and behaves, we lose some of the knowledge about how the universe or the planets or the stars move and behave.

Well you know, that argument would be great if it wasn't for the fact that there's already an EPOD. I think a lot of people come here just to see splendid pictures of what's out there, not what's down here.

Although this particular picture did have something to do with astronomy,
I've seen a kitchen before though (I have one of my own) and the egg balancing trick is a bit lame for APOD. I think people could learn more from a diagram of the relationship between sun, the planets and our own earth. I just think it's a lost opportunity.
YMMV.

Hey 200 posts, crack open a bottle of beer!

Edited to add: Why has the bad astronomer got his head on upside down?

Earthbelow · Post by **Earthbelow** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:58 pm

Tilt wrote:
How's about a pic of the two shuttles at pads 39A & B?

My thoughts eggs-actly!

Tilt · Post by **Tilt** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:59 pm

Earthbelow wrote:My thoughts eggs-actly! :)

Vincent Price Strikes From Afar -----

jtomney · Post by **jtomney** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:31 pm

Anyone else find it ironic that while dispelling one myth bout eggs APOD promotes another- namely that day and night are equal on September 22nd? Check out your ephemeris and then the USNO site (http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/equinoxes.php) about the equinoxes.

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:59 pm

Dr. Phil Plait, very bad astronomy.

How yah all doing? Hanging in there?

Keep up the good images there APOD, , , when yah actually have them that is.

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:06 pm

loujudson wrote: Even if the guy in the picture plays an astronomer on the web.Lou

Lou,
I don't know your qualifications, but unless you have a PhD in astronomy, and have worked on the Hubble and COBE or similar, then Dr.Plait is more of an astronomer than you are.
And a phocomelic to boot, it would seem from the pic.
John

emc · Post by **emc** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:13 pm

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080921.html

The eggs are OK (could have been more equally spaced though). I mostly like the multi-colored alphabet letters near the bottom of the refrigerator. The longer I looked at them the more I was reminded of globular clusters, particle collisions and art.

rigelan · Post by **rigelan** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:27 am

Even if I do think this particular picture is justified, I won't say for 100% that all of the pictures that have ever been posted were astronomy related. But lets just enjoy them. Since you mentioned Epod, I tried to take a look, but it seems to be offline for the moment.

And Egghead is just funny.
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na
Batman! Pow Blam Oof!

Indigo_Sunrise · Post by **Indigo_Sunrise** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:59 am

Anyone else find it ironic that while dispelling one myth bout eggs APOD promotes another- namely that day and night are equal on September 22nd? Check out your ephemeris and then the USNO site (http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/equinoxes.php) about the equinoxes.

And here's an expansion of that:

There are a few explanations on why the equinox dates differ in the Gregorian calendar. The varying dates of the equinox are mainly due to the calendar system – most western countries use the Gregorian calendar, which has 365 days in a year, or 366 days in a leap year. According to the National Maritime Museum, the equinoxes generally occur about six hours later each year, with a jump of a day (backwards) on leap years. An extra day is added in a leap year to minimize a gradual drift of the equinox date through the seasons.

As for the tropical year, it is approximately 365.242199 days, but varies from year to year because of the influence of other planets. A tropical year is the length of time that the sun takes to return to the same position in the cycle of seasons, as seen from earth. The exact orbital and daily rotational motion of the Earth, such as the “wobble” in the earth's axis (precession), also contributes to the changing solstice dates.

From here: about half way down

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:00 pm

craterchains wrote:Dr. Phil Plait, very bad astronomy.

How yah all doing? Hanging in there?

Keep up the good images there APOD, , , when yah actually have them that is.

CC

good to know you're still alive

I like the debunking that bad astronomy does. But then, that's probably why you don't ...

Tilt wrote:How's about a pic of the two shuttles at pads 39A & B?

Asterisk: Submit Pictures to APOD: Two Shuttles at the Same Time

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:55 pm

rigelan wrote:And Egghead is just funny.
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na
Batman! Pow Blam Oof!

Batman! Pow Blam Oeuf!

___*NEUENDORFFER*
_____ {anagram}
__ *NERD FERN OEUF*

<<In an often-repeated anecdote from the set of Batman, Vincent Price, after a take was printed, started throwing eggs at series stars Adam West and Burt Ward, and when asked to stop replied, "With a full artillery? Not a chance!", causing an eggfight to erupt on the soundstage.
.
During the 1960s Vincent Price was as well-known for his sophistication and intelligence. Along with being a gourmet, he was an art connoisseur, and his books on both topics were best-sellers. He was on The $64,000 Question where his topic was art history.>>

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:05 pm

emc wrote:http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080921.html

The eggs are OK (could have been more equally spaced though). I mostly like the multi-colored alphabet letters near the bottom of the refrigerator. The longer I looked at them the more I was reminded of globular clusters, particle collisions and art.

http://astronomy.byu.edu/sdb/Mnemonic.html

O B A F G K M

. This is the Harvard Spectral Classification System for the stars. Each letter corresponds to a certain type of spectrum, and therefore color, of a star. The letters also correspond roughly to the temperatures, with O, the bluest, being the hottest. Why aren't the letters in alphabetical order? Well, they started out in order, according to the strength of the Balmer lines in the spectra, but then some of the letters turned out to be equivalent, so they dropped those. Then the order was rearranged according to temperature. Rather than rename the spectral types, they simply placed them in the correct order, and so we have OBAFGKM. To remember this order, we like to invent mnemonics. The most common one is:

. Oh, Be A Fine Girl, Kiss Me

. There are three more types of stars, that are mixed in with the M giants. These are R, N, and S. So, adding these letters to the mnemonic we can have:

. "Oh, Be A Fine Girl, Kiss Me Right Now...Smack!"

. Here's a list of some other mnemonics I have collected. If you come up with any, with or without the RNS, please send it in. I'll give you credit for it.

. Note: Recently two more types of stars have been added to the sequence, cooler even than the M stars (that is, less hot than M stars). These have been named L and T stars. I still don't have many mnemonics for this sequence, so if you know any more, please send them in!

O B A F G K M L T :

. Oh Be A Fine Girl Kiss My Lips Tonight
. --Submitted by Steffen Knollmann

. Oh Brilliant And Fiery Geminids, Kindle My Lamp Tonight --Newly added
. --Submitted by Richard Stratford

. Officially, Bill Always Felt Guilty Kissing Monica Lewinsky Tenderly
..........................................
O B A F G K M :

. Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully
. --unknown

. Optical Binary Affairs Fundamentally Generate Keplerian Marriages
. --"Introductory Astronomy and Astrophysics" (Zeilik * Gregory)

. Only Bold Astronomers Forge Great Knowledgeable Minds
. --"Introductory Astronomy and Astrophysics" (Zeilik * Gregory)

. Occasional Banter And Feghoots Graciously Kill Monotony
. --SummerDale Beckstrand (This one's for Dr. Taylor, the king of Feghootry)

. Orange Banana Apple Fig Grape Kiwi Mango
. --J. Snedeker

. Orion, Badly Armored, Faught Gargantuan's Killing Machine
. --David Carroll

. October Babies Always Find Great Kostume Masks
. --Oblivion

. Odin Bityi Anglichanin Finiki Geval Kak Morkov'
. --km (from Russian: one beaten English chews dates like a carrot)

. Only Bored Astronomers Find Gratification Knowing Mnemonics
. --Taken from Answers.com

. Omnivorous Butchers Always Find Good Kangaroo Meat
. --Dr. Matt Adams
..........................................
O B A F G K M (R N S):

. Orbiting Bodies Always Follow Gravitational Kinetic Modes (Round Nearest Star) --Newly added
. --the bert

. Out Beyond Andromeda Fiery Gases Keep Making Really Nifty Stars
. --unknown

. Overseas Broadcast: A Flash Godzilla Kills Mothra (Rodan Named Successor)
. --unknown

. Octopus Brains, A Fine Gastronomical Kitchen Menu, Require No Sauce
. --unknown

. Oh, Be A Fine Guy, Kill My Roommate Now, Sweetie
. --Gary Fouts

. O Belli Astri, Forma Gloriaque Kanatis. Me, Reges Noctis, Serenatis.
. --SummerDale Beckstrand *Kanatis is really spelled "Canatis", but as there are no "K"s in Latin, I had to make do with a "C"

. Ordinary, But Awesome, Far-reaching Gases Kindly Make Regal New Stars
. --SummerDale Beckstrand

. Oh, Beautiful Angels Fly Gracefully, Kneel Mercifully, Reviving Needy Souls
. --SummerDale Beckstrand

. Only Big Astronomy Federal Grants Keep Money. Research Needs Support!
. --Taken from Answers.com

. Oh, Boy! Another Failing Grade Keeps Me Reconsidering Night School!
. --Dr. Taylor

jesusfreak16 · Post by **jesusfreak16** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:41 pm

Starship Asterisk*

Eggs standing straight up... (APOD 21 Sep 2008)

Eggs standing straight up... (APOD 21 Sep 2008)

4207

Oh, Be A Fine Girl, Kiss Me Right Now...Smack!