split from Light Echoes from V838 Mon (APOD 03 Feb 2008)
-
- G'day G'day G'day G'day
- Posts: 2881
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:04 am
- Location: Sydney Australia
split from Light Echoes from V838 Mon (APOD 03 Feb 2008)
Hello Starnut
It does not matter what I think.
What matters is you doing research:
Google for:
Neutron Stars Cosmology
Compact Core Cosmology
Star Formation Cosmology
Than come back and discuss Neutron Stars.
Than read up on the formation of the elements within the solar envelope.
The information is out there.
It does not matter what I think.
What matters is you doing research:
Google for:
Neutron Stars Cosmology
Compact Core Cosmology
Star Formation Cosmology
Than come back and discuss Neutron Stars.
Than read up on the formation of the elements within the solar envelope.
The information is out there.
Harry : Smile and live another day.
I duly did as you suggested - googling those terms - and Google did not find anything about them. Did you invent them? More figments of your imagination?harry wrote:
What matters is you doing research:
Google for:
Neutron Stars Cosmology
Compact Core Cosmology
Star Formation Cosmology
Than read up on the formation of the elements within the solar envelope.
The information is out there.
Just once, why don't you take the time to tell us what you know instead of telling us to look for non-existing info elsewhere?
Fight ignorance!
huh?
Neutron Stars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuetron_star
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/new ... ybrid.html
http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Res ... utron.html
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect ... utron.html
http://www.uwgb.edu/DutchS/CosmosNotes/COSMOLGY.HTM
Compact Cores
http://www.ice.csic.es/en/view_research_line.php?RID=18
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000A&A...353..823C
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1983heac.book..394F
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/pro ... id=6541826
Star Formation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_formation
http://www.alma.nrao.edu/science/cosmol ... 0000000000
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/research/stars_and_galaxy.htm
=/
Neutron Stars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuetron_star
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/new ... ybrid.html
http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Res ... utron.html
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect ... utron.html
http://www.uwgb.edu/DutchS/CosmosNotes/COSMOLGY.HTM
Compact Cores
http://www.ice.csic.es/en/view_research_line.php?RID=18
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000A&A...353..823C
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1983heac.book..394F
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/pro ... id=6541826
Star Formation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_formation
http://www.alma.nrao.edu/science/cosmol ... 0000000000
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/research/stars_and_galaxy.htm
=/
-
- Science Officer
- Posts: 499
- Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:53 am
- Location: Old Orchard Beach, Maine
Oh, I get it. At first I thought this was a discussion forum but now I see that it's a bickering forum. I've seen this "banter" amongst you spill into other topics as well. What is this a king of the universe contest or some such thing? I posted a thought or two about V838 and got brushed aside with a comment on dark matter. It was like politics in that it did not answer the question posed. In fact, my somewhat facetious response went unnoticed altogether. Now, I've watched APOD for better than three years, which isn't long, but I'm not stupid. I decided to join this forum to learn something and maybe gain a little deeper appreciation for the processes at work around this universe of ours and my first time out I get the heave-ho. Is this why the input on this particular topic is practically nil? Why don't you guys give it a rest and email privately- It's all so boring!
For my exit from this forum: if one of you would like to answer my question regarding V838, the key phrase is: "Could the nuclear composition ever be such" with the key word being "EVER". A simple, honest "yes" or "no" will suffice, key word being"HONEST" and you can get back at each pther's fine-pointed throats.
Goodbye
For my exit from this forum: if one of you would like to answer my question regarding V838, the key phrase is: "Could the nuclear composition ever be such" with the key word being "EVER". A simple, honest "yes" or "no" will suffice, key word being"HONEST" and you can get back at each pther's fine-pointed throats.
Goodbye
"Everything matters.....So may the facts be with you"-astrolabe
Harry said:Arramon wrote:huh?
Neutron Stars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuetron_star
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/new ... ybrid.html
http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Res ... utron.html
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect ... utron.html
http://www.uwgb.edu/DutchS/CosmosNotes/COSMOLGY.HTM
Compact Cores
http://www.ice.csic.es/en/view_research_line.php?RID=18
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000A&A...353..823C
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1983heac.book..394F
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/pro ... id=6541826
Star Formation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_formation
http://www.alma.nrao.edu/science/cosmol ... 0000000000
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/research/stars_and_galaxy.htm
=/
Neutron Star COSMOLOGY
Stellar Core COSMOLOGY
Star Formation COSMOLOGY
I was looking for those specific terms as Harry suggested and found that there aint no such animals!
Quoth the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language:
cosmology n. 1. A branch of philosophy dealing with the origin, processes, and structure of the universe. 2. The astrophysical study of the structure and constituent dynamics of the universe.
While stars are undoubtedly parts of the universe, the study of their births, lives and deaths is NOT cosmology.
Fight ignorance!
- neufer
- Vacationer at Tralfamadore
- Posts: 18805
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
- Location: Alexandria, Virginia
starnut wrote:cosmology n. 1. A branch of philosophy dealing with the origin, processes, and structure of the universe. 2. The astrophysical study of the structure and constituent dynamics of the universe.
While stars are undoubtedly parts of the universe, the study of their births, lives and deaths is NOT cosmology.
Code: Select all
Google site hits
-----------------------
COSMOLOGY : 7,970,000
COSMETOLOGY : 4,540,000
METROLOGY : 3,690,000
METEOROLOGY : 9,020,000
METEORICS : 2,350
http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sci ... age_id=166
Art Neuendorffer
I'm not sure what you're complaining about. You were answered at bottom of page two by starnut. You even responded to the reply at the top of page three. Did you not get the answer you wanted? I don't know about "EVER", but your answer seems to be "Probably not."astrolabe wrote:For my exit from this forum: if one of you would like to answer my question regarding V838, the key phrase is: "Could the nuclear composition ever be such" with the key word being "EVER". A simple, honest "yes" or "no" will suffice, key word being"HONEST" and you can get back at each pther's fine-pointed throats.
Know the quiet place within your heart and touch the rainbow of possibility; be
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk. — Garrison Keillor
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk. — Garrison Keillor
Speaking of not being able to follow directions;
Results 1 - 10 of about 429,000 for neutron stars cosmology. (0.27 seconds)
Was the brightest supernova the birth of a quark star? - cosmology ...
But the team argues that some neutron stars last only a short time because their magnetic properties cause their spin rates to drastically slow down. ...
space.newscientist.com/ channel/astronomy/cosmology/dn12514
Results 1 - 10 of about 64,000 for compact cores cosmology. (0.18 seconds)
The Asterisk* :: View topic - Light Echoes from V838 Mon, diameter ...
It does not matter what I think. What matters is you doing research: Google for: Neutron Stars Cosmology Compact Core Cosmology Star Formation Cosmology ...
asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?t=13119& start=30&sid=786290ee02597d4ad1d3d1a30acb3677
(Oh look, your spat is now enshrined in google forever !)
ICE - Quark matter, signatures in compact stars and cosmology
Quark matter, signatures in compact stars and cosmology ... This phase may be present in the core of compact stars, or still in the hypothetical quark stars ...
http://www.ice.csic.es/en/view_research_line.php?RID=18
Results 1 - 10 of about 320,000 for star formation cosmology. (0.42 seconds)
Report of the Cosmology and Extragalactic Working Group
Overview; Highlights; Cosmology and the Early Universe; Epoch of Galaxy Formation and Subsequent Galaxy Evolution; Imaging Gas in Galaxies: Star Formation, ...
http://www.alma.nrao.edu/science/cosmology/cos.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages
CONSTRAINTS ON COSMOLOGY AND GALAXY FORMATION FROM THE NHDF
cosmology independent observations such as the apparent magnitude function to. heavily cosmology and model dependent constraints such as the star formation ...
http://www.springerlink.com/index/r127862x4721837q.pdf - Similar pages
- - -
The spirit of scientific discussion is to listen to others, and by allowing their imperfect human condition then look for what it is they are trying to say and what is it they really mean; and not devolve into self-ego driven squabbling.
- - -
I interpret what Harry is saying is, Mainstream science has a long way to go before it correctly explains things, and it should keep its ears open to new ideas. For, as science throws out 95% of what it thinks is correct theory every 500 years, in 500 years mainstream will be saying quite different things than today.
Those who are rigid in their thinking and opinions, will be broken off by the winds of change. Those who are flexible in considering many ideas will only be bent by the wind, and live to smile another day!![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
- - -
In my arrogant opinion (IMAO)
; As inertia containing matter accumulates (as the star grows in mass), the gravity increases and causes the electrical properties of matter to start affecting a response, that of an electric field and magnetic effects. This resultant growing electrical effect as gravity grows, is what causes the nova to occur. In my view matter can never accumulate to the point of its gravity being so strong it will form a black hole. The electrical effects will disperse matter faster than gravity can accumulate it. Witness the 'jets' in Cygnus A and the Crab Nebula. Those jets are a result of the electrical reaction to an intense gravity field. As the gravity gets stronger, the electrics will throw more matter away further and faster. The Black Hole will never be allowed to form. The fact that stars nova is the proof that black holes are prevented from forming. Nova is natures way of prevention, otherwise the universe would have disappeared down a black hole long ago.
Results 1 - 10 of about 429,000 for neutron stars cosmology. (0.27 seconds)
Was the brightest supernova the birth of a quark star? - cosmology ...
But the team argues that some neutron stars last only a short time because their magnetic properties cause their spin rates to drastically slow down. ...
space.newscientist.com/ channel/astronomy/cosmology/dn12514
Results 1 - 10 of about 64,000 for compact cores cosmology. (0.18 seconds)
The Asterisk* :: View topic - Light Echoes from V838 Mon, diameter ...
It does not matter what I think. What matters is you doing research: Google for: Neutron Stars Cosmology Compact Core Cosmology Star Formation Cosmology ...
asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?t=13119& start=30&sid=786290ee02597d4ad1d3d1a30acb3677
(Oh look, your spat is now enshrined in google forever !)
ICE - Quark matter, signatures in compact stars and cosmology
Quark matter, signatures in compact stars and cosmology ... This phase may be present in the core of compact stars, or still in the hypothetical quark stars ...
http://www.ice.csic.es/en/view_research_line.php?RID=18
Results 1 - 10 of about 320,000 for star formation cosmology. (0.42 seconds)
Report of the Cosmology and Extragalactic Working Group
Overview; Highlights; Cosmology and the Early Universe; Epoch of Galaxy Formation and Subsequent Galaxy Evolution; Imaging Gas in Galaxies: Star Formation, ...
http://www.alma.nrao.edu/science/cosmology/cos.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages
CONSTRAINTS ON COSMOLOGY AND GALAXY FORMATION FROM THE NHDF
cosmology independent observations such as the apparent magnitude function to. heavily cosmology and model dependent constraints such as the star formation ...
http://www.springerlink.com/index/r127862x4721837q.pdf - Similar pages
- - -
The spirit of scientific discussion is to listen to others, and by allowing their imperfect human condition then look for what it is they are trying to say and what is it they really mean; and not devolve into self-ego driven squabbling.
- - -
I interpret what Harry is saying is, Mainstream science has a long way to go before it correctly explains things, and it should keep its ears open to new ideas. For, as science throws out 95% of what it thinks is correct theory every 500 years, in 500 years mainstream will be saying quite different things than today.
Those who are rigid in their thinking and opinions, will be broken off by the winds of change. Those who are flexible in considering many ideas will only be bent by the wind, and live to smile another day!
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
- - -
In my arrogant opinion (IMAO)
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
-
- G'day G'day G'day G'day
- Posts: 2881
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:04 am
- Location: Sydney Australia
Hello All
Starnut said
====================================
Hello Kovil
How are you?
I have ben trying to send you email,,,,,,,,,,,they return to sender.
Starnut said
Mate you must be on another planet. Making silly statements is really nice of you. If you do not want to read to understand than no one can help you.I duly did as you suggested - googling those terms - and Google did not find anything about them. Did you invent them? More figments of your imagination?
Just once, why don't you take the time to tell us what you know instead of telling us to look for non-existing info elsewhere?
====================================
Hello Kovil
How are you?
I have ben trying to send you email,,,,,,,,,,,they return to sender.
Harry : Smile and live another day.
-
- G'day G'day G'day G'day
- Posts: 2881
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:04 am
- Location: Sydney Australia
Hello Astrolabe
You said
Your right.
You hit the nail on the head.
You said
It would illuminate what ever it hits. But! dark matter has varies meanings and defined in so many ways and yet there is no evidence for DARK MATTER.
You said
Oh, I get it. At first I thought this was a discussion forum but now I see that it's a bickering forum. I've seen this "banter" amongst you spill into other topics as well. What is this a king of the universe contest or some such thing? I posted a thought or two about V838 and got brushed aside with a comment on dark matter. It was like politics in that it did not answer the question posed. In fact, my somewhat facetious response went unnoticed altogether. Now, I've watched APOD for better than three years, which isn't long, but I'm not stupid. I decided to join this forum to learn something and maybe gain a little deeper appreciation for the processes at work around this universe of ours and my first time out I get the heave-ho. Is this why the input on this particular topic is practically nil? Why don't you guys give it a rest and email privately- It's all so boring!
For my exit from this forum: if one of you would like to answer my question regarding V838, the key phrase is: "Could the nuclear composition ever be such" with the key word being "EVER". A simple, honest "yes" or "no" will suffice, key word being"HONEST" and you can get back at each pther's fine-pointed throats.
Your right.
You hit the nail on the head.
You said
What type of dark matter are you talking about?The dialog is "lively" to be sure! My own knowledge of such processes is pretty laughable so all I have are novice opinions at best. V838 is truly gorgeous in a dusty sort of way. Could the nuclear composition that began this event ever be such that it would illuminate dark matter once released? The "fur" looks more akin to matter caught up in magnetic lines of force with say north at 2:00 and south at 8:00 or some other similar alignment. An honestly astounding photo.
It would illuminate what ever it hits. But! dark matter has varies meanings and defined in so many ways and yet there is no evidence for DARK MATTER.
Harry : Smile and live another day.
-
- G'day G'day G'day G'day
- Posts: 2881
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:04 am
- Location: Sydney Australia
Hello Martin
You said
Using the word absolute is too hash. But than again I agree with you.
You said
Matter that cannot been seen is called Dark Matter. The so called black holes that contain millions and billions of sun masses, the theoretical quark stars and preon stars and other compacted star cores are all dark matter in that we are unable to see them. But! we can see their effects on their surroundings. This is one form of dark matter.There is absolutely no evidence for Dark Matter?
1. So there is no unexplained matter/force that is reacting with observable matter
2. Are you saying everything is observable or that there cannot be matter unkown to us
Using the word absolute is too hash. But than again I agree with you.
Harry : Smile and live another day.
-
- G'day G'day G'day G'day
- Posts: 2881
- Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:04 am
- Location: Sydney Australia
Hello Qev
You said
That it had nothing to do with the Big Bang.
Although your statement is correct to explain orbits.
http://metaresearch.org/publications/bu ... b06cp6.asp
Interesting link
Degenerate sterile neutrino dark matter in the cores of galaxies
http://www.aanda.org/index.php?option=a ... 10-06.html
Scientists Say Dark Matter Doesn't Exist
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0 ... heory.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6871
What came first the chicken or the egg?
You said
Show me the link that proves that point.No, dark matter theory originated with observations of the orbits of galaxies in large galaxy clusters, and the rotation curves of stars in spiral galaxies; it had nothing to do with Big Bang theory.
That it had nothing to do with the Big Bang.
Although your statement is correct to explain orbits.
http://metaresearch.org/publications/bu ... b06cp6.asp
Came across this link“Dark matter” seen? Look again!
In ApJ 648:L109-L113 (2006), astronomers claim to have found the first direct evidence for the existence of “dark matter”. Their reasoning is as follows:
Interesting link
Degenerate sterile neutrino dark matter in the cores of galaxies
http://www.aanda.org/index.php?option=a ... 10-06.html
Scientists Say Dark Matter Doesn't Exist
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0 ... heory.html
Big bang sound waves explain galaxy clusteringTwo Canadian astronomers think there is a good reason dark matter, a mysterious substance thought to make up the bulk of matter in the universe, has never been directly detected: It doesn't exist.
Dark matter was invoked to explain how galaxies stick together. The visible matter alone in galaxies—stars, gas and dust—is nowhere near enough to hold them together, so scientists reasoned there must be something invisible that exerts gravity and is central to all galaxies.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6871
Sound waves that roared through space after the big bang left behind a subtle imprint in the way galaxies are clustered today, reveal two major studies. The results bolster the standard theory that the universe is flat, and measuring the distance between the sound ripples may provide a new cosmic yardstick to probe the past.
Two independent teams mapping the universe have found that galaxies are currently slightly more likely to be 500 million light years apart than any other distance. The finding, a result of the conditions in the early universe, was announced on Tuesday at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society in San Diego, California, US.
The results back the standard models of a flat universe, dominated by dark matter and dark energy, that has been expanding since the rapid period of inflation just after the big bang. Generally speaking, the distance between galaxies matches the pattern of sound wave ripples from the early universe.
What came first the chicken or the egg?
Harry : Smile and live another day.
Ignorance does, in fact, mean lack of knowledge. Asinine, I think, is the word you're looking for.Martin wrote:However, "ignorance" is a very harsh word. Science is and will always be playing catch-up. It is not ignorance to not know -but it is ignorant to refuse to give merit to evidence or a good
Know the quiet place within your heart and touch the rainbow of possibility; be
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk. — Garrison Keillor
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk. — Garrison Keillor
-
- Commander
- Posts: 507
- Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:20 pm
Nice quote NoelC.
However, "ignorance" is a very harsh word. Science is and will always be playing catch-up. It is not ignorance to not know -but it is ignorant to refuse to give merit to evidence or a good
Ignorance is "Not Knowing" and can be easily overcome - unlike Stupidity or Asinine.
Speculation ≠ Science
As I said, it originated from the observations of galactic motion in galaxy clusters, published by Fritz Zwicky back in 1937. This was then followed up 40 years later by the work of Vera Rubin on galactic rotation curves. That is was discovered by observation independent of Big Bang theory, and its inclusion in Big Bang cosmology serves to strengthen the model, should say something about both theories.harry wrote:Hello Qev
You said
Show me the link that proves that point.No, dark matter theory originated with observations of the orbits of galaxies in large galaxy clusters, and the rotation curves of stars in spiral galaxies; it had nothing to do with Big Bang theory.
That it had nothing to do with the Big Bang.
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
Quote:
"Scientists Say Dark Matter Doesn't Exist
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0 ... heory.html
Quote:
Two Canadian astronomers think there is a good reason dark matter, a mysterious substance thought to make up the bulk of matter in the universe, has never been directly detected: It doesn't exist.
Dark matter was invoked to explain how galaxies stick together. The visible matter alone in galaxies—stars, gas and dust—is nowhere near enough to hold them together, so scientists reasoned there must be something invisible that exerts gravity and is central to all galaxies. "
From the same article at the end (Conclusion):
Douglas Clowe, the lead astronomer of the team that linked the Bullet Cluster observations with dark matter (and now at Ohio University), says he still stands by his original claim. For him and many other astronomers, conjuring up new particles that might account for dark matter is more palatable than turning a fundamental theory of how the univese works on its head.
"As far as we're concerned, [Moffat] hasn't done anything that makes us retract our earlier statement that the Bullet Cluster shows us that we have to have dark matter," Clowe said. "We're still open to modifying gravity to reduce the amount of dark matter, but we're pretty sure that you have to have most of the mass of the universe still in some form of dark matter."
So they use a modified gravity theory to explain their result but modified gravity need more test for now. Does it realy exist? Still many question. We need many answers. For now it is an idea. How much priority it should have for a research fund remain to be seen. We'll see later. It doesnt seem to be enough yet. So dont change your mind yet.![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
"Scientists Say Dark Matter Doesn't Exist
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0 ... heory.html
Quote:
Two Canadian astronomers think there is a good reason dark matter, a mysterious substance thought to make up the bulk of matter in the universe, has never been directly detected: It doesn't exist.
Dark matter was invoked to explain how galaxies stick together. The visible matter alone in galaxies—stars, gas and dust—is nowhere near enough to hold them together, so scientists reasoned there must be something invisible that exerts gravity and is central to all galaxies. "
From the same article at the end (Conclusion):
Douglas Clowe, the lead astronomer of the team that linked the Bullet Cluster observations with dark matter (and now at Ohio University), says he still stands by his original claim. For him and many other astronomers, conjuring up new particles that might account for dark matter is more palatable than turning a fundamental theory of how the univese works on its head.
"As far as we're concerned, [Moffat] hasn't done anything that makes us retract our earlier statement that the Bullet Cluster shows us that we have to have dark matter," Clowe said. "We're still open to modifying gravity to reduce the amount of dark matter, but we're pretty sure that you have to have most of the mass of the universe still in some form of dark matter."
So they use a modified gravity theory to explain their result but modified gravity need more test for now. Does it realy exist? Still many question. We need many answers. For now it is an idea. How much priority it should have for a research fund remain to be seen. We'll see later. It doesnt seem to be enough yet. So dont change your mind yet.
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)