Where are ANY of the impactors?

sidekickbobcat · Post by **sidekickbobcat** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:21 pm

Astro - Your response is valid and I concede to your point of busy schedules. However, when a post provides a link to a poster's position, courtesy should demand at least a summary review of the material before jumping in with questions that only muddy the waters currently up for discussion, seemingly in an effort to discount the potential possibilities of the issue at hand.

As a single mother of 3 children, now all grown, and all those goes with that responsibility, as well as running my own businesses, my research over the years was addressed with determination and unfettered commitment, despite my parental obligations. Along the way I discovered bits and pieces that did not always appear to "fit", and yet with continued perserverance and an open mind, those bits and pieces were sorted out and those that did, in fact, have relevance were added into the "soup" and the others discounted. Reaching out into other realms of possibility provided even more evidence that I had not even begun to imagine would have anything of value to add to the "soup". Sometimes when you get hit in the head with a 2x4, the obvious result is that you now have a goose-egg that needs attention. Thus, I am at APOD.

Taking into consideration the other fields of research I have been involved in over the past 35+ years, none of which are in the area of physics or astronomy, I have recently been presented with the vast information available at APOD and have come to realize that it is incumbent upon me to merge these fields of research and delve into the inevitability of the reality before me.

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:43 pm

BMA, and all,
I concede, as I have before, that there are craters that have been made by impactors. Such as those bits and pieces blown off of Mars impacting our moon for an example. Those striking the moon would of course not go through an atmosphere and would accelerate into the moon by the gravity of the moon impacting at a very high velocity. Those that have made it to Earth, after having gone through our atmosphere, and been found and identified as having come from Mars in all highest probability, would have been burning up and slowing down before impacting at a much slower velocity and in all probability not leave any crater. I think that these points are all quite "scientifically" based. Most of the weapons tests were under ground or atmospheric as Hiroshima (2,000 feet) and Nagasaki were (1,540 feet), and the big one in Russia at 4,000 m above land.

Quoted from http://www.bikiniatoll.com/Baltimore%20Sun.html

The bomb, dubbed Castle BRAVO, exploded with the force of 15 million tons
of TNT, or 1,000 Hiroshima bombs. It turned the islet into a crater 24 stories
deep and 6,000 feet wide, and sent a debris cloud 114,000 feet into the sky.

Quoted from http://www.barringercrater.com/science/

The Barringer Meteorite Crater (also known as "Meteor Crater") is a gigantic hole in the middle of the arid sandstone of the Arizona desert. A rim of smashed and jumbled boulders, some of them the size of small houses, rises 150 feet above the level of the surrounding plain. The crater itself is nearly a mile wide, and 570 feet deep.
So we can create craters larger than the "smallest" as stated by BMA.

My advise to the readers is to think about these things and on final comment since the anomaly of Concise Systematic crater chains (CS crater chains) being so impossible to have formed with out "guidance" we are left with the necessary questioning of all craters found.

THX1138 · Post by **THX1138** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:33 am

Ok, uncle, and I give up.
Obviously extraterrestrials had a war and although they had the ability to
Travel light years to react this solar system they were such bad shots that they
Left craters on every rock in orbit around our local star / sun.
Makes sense to me, why oh why didn’t I see this as being the case before

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:52 am

So often people "jump" to conclusions with out thinking of all the possible or probable answers. Some think mankind may have had these wars in times past in a far more advanced society of the time. All I am saying is that there is enough evidence to cause many to question such "pat" answers as; "they are all traveling too fast to leave any surviving impactors behind."

It is often I have read just what THX wrote, or something like it; "Obviously extraterrestrials had a war and although they had the ability to Travel light years to react this solar system they were such bad shots that they Left craters on every rock in orbit around our local star / sun."

"If every bullet and bomb had found it's mark; wars would have only lasted days, not years."
Norval L. Cunningham 2007

Nereid wrote; "Or perhaps craterchains, or others, has an alternative view of what constitutes science, one involving secrecy, absence of (quantitative) analyses, etc?" Sounds like she is talking about NASA.

As I have stated several times; science is the search for truth.

Speaking of "quantitative";
How many craters show an impactor nearby or in the crater? Far less than 1% from visual observation.
How many concise and systematic chains of craters are there compared to recognizable "almost" aligned chains of craters? Far less than 1% by visual observation.
Shall I continue with quantitative questions?
How many pictures appeared in the publics media publications before there was a plausible / possible (not probable) explanation for CS (concise and systematic) types of crater chains?
Should I continue?

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:48 pm

craterchains wrote:(snip)

"If every bullet and bomb had found it's mark; wars would have only lasted days, not years."
Norval L. Cunningham 2007

If every soldier could aim accurately perhaps this would be more likely

craterchains wrote: Speaking of "quantitative";
How many craters show an impactor nearby or in the crater? Far less than 1% from visual observation.

This is because 99% of these events release enough energy to throw the ejecta material out of the crater bowl and spread it over miles of ground, sometimes hundreds of miles. The impactor remnants are carried with the ejecta material over the same distance.
The likelihood that the impactor would remain in the crater, is as likely as having ALL the ejecta material fall back into the crater.

craterchains wrote:How many concise and systematic chains of craters are there compared to recognizable "almost" aligned chains of craters? Far less than 1% by visual observation.
Shall I continue with quantitative questions?
How many pictures appeared in the publics media publications before there was a plausible / possible (not probable) explanation for CS (concise and systematic) types of crater chains?
Should I continue?

CC, I must agree with you on the remainder. This should warrant further investigation to assertain the cause of these anomalies.

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:47 am

Has anyone considered the aspect of the elongated craters? An example is found here at LPOD on our moon.
http://www.lpod.org/?m=20070410

There are other examples found on Mars. The problem I have with this is the very small number of them being found. Again, far less than one percent. Also that there are, again, no "impactors" fond nearby, or down range. It is stated that in some of these low angle impacts, and even that crater chains, may be caused by a "skipping" effect. Considering the "pat" answer that they ALL are destroyed, how is such an answer possible? An impactor survived not just one, but two or more (and some CS crater chains have over a hundred craters) hits and THEN disintegrated? Me thinks that laws of trajectories are being stretched a bit too far.

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:03 pm

craterchains wrote:Has anyone considered the aspect of the elongated craters? An example is found here at LPOD on our moon.
http://www.lpod.org/?m=20070410

There are other examples found on Mars. The problem I have with this is the very small number of them being found. Again, far less than one percent. Also that there are, again, no "impactors" fond nearby, or down range. It is stated that in some of these low angle impacts, and even that crater chains, may be caused by a "skipping" effect. Considering the "pat" answer that they ALL are destroyed, how is such an answer possible? An impactor survived not just one, but two or more (and some CS crater chains have over a hundred craters) hits and THEN disintegrated? Me thinks that laws of trajectories are being stretched a bit too far.

Have you ever skipped a stone accross a pond? The optimum angle of attack for SKIMMING is about 3-5 deg. This would produce a stronger likelihood for an impactor surviving the first point of impact. The more accute the angle, the greater the likelihood for survival.

Looking at the LPOD images, I would surmise that the impactor came in low causing the "A" streaking first then impacting the surafce causing the first crater, this impact then likely caused a rotation in the flat asteroid whereby it struck the second point on its edge causing the streaking in the Clementine image as the blast was forced out from the flat edges of the asteroid, and also causing the dark streak in the bottom of the crater (also visible in the Clementine image.)

makc · Post by **makc** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:19 pm

btw, I never knew some part of arizona crater impactor survived

http://www.rosssea.info/pix/big/Diablo- ... eorite.jpg

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:40 pm

BMAONE23
"Have you ever skipped a stone accross a pond?
No, the ponds here are too big to skip a stone all the way across.

"This would produce a stronger likelihood for an impactor surviving the first point of impact."
Agreed.

"this impact then likely caused a rotation in the flat asteroid whereby it struck the second point on its edge causing the streaking in the Clementine image as the blast was forced out from the flat edges of the asteroid,"
I haven't seen one of those, yet. (Unless you want to count those strange "flat disc" shaped objects that have been reported in our skies for several thousand years? The ones that don't exist? LOL)

Even more fun in back yard experimentation was skipping and throwing rocks across / into, dry, wet, crusted mediums such as sand, dirt, pebbles, mud, clay and so on over the years. Oh, and having fired into the same with guns, and blasted with explosives, such mediums. When it comes to craters of even greater size our atom bombs have more than demonstrated the capacity to create them. We do posses the capacity to build far larger nuclear devices, and have with out using them, but the fact remains we can make craters that are far larger than a mile across with bombs in the hundreds of megatons range if a 15kt one created the crater in the atoll at about one mile across.

Astro and Neried
Your "contributions" are also appreciated.

THX1138
"Obviously extraterrestrials had a war and although they had the ability to Travel light years to react this solar system "
I agree, in all probability.

"they were such bad shots that they Left craters on every rock in orbit around our local star / sun."
Nope, they missed a few places. Take another look around, and some places have had a resurfacing and then new craters and CS types of crater chains.
"If every bullet and bomb had found it's mark; wars would have only lasted days, not years."
Norval L. Cunningham 2007

"Makes sense to me, why oh why didn't I see this as being the case before"
Exactly my question?!?!?

makc
Thanks, and there are many other bits of that explosion that still remain.

THX1138 · Post by **THX1138** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:13 am

CC
As I would consider your opinion concerning the origins of the craters in question / Galactic war / as being borderline insane warranting a possible trip to Belleview, I most defiantly see you as one tenacious hombre, in fact “ at this moment “ I don’t think anyone on the planet is ever going to shake you of this idea of yours.
This topic is going nowhere, maybe this one should go away for some years until we have cameras that can search for Bits and pieces of impactors in every crater.
It’s pretty obvious that nothing less is going to resolve this question to your liking.
I like you Chains, this idea of yours is way, way out, nonetheless. It’s your idea and truly you are sticking to it.

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:11 am

Yes, quite the enigma, isn't it?

FieryIce · Post by **FieryIce** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:15 pm

A fascinating aspect of this enigma is not what is but what isn't.

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:50 pm

It has been proposed that an imminent Earth Impactor could be dragged out of its orbital path, away from the Earth. Maybe what is needed is for us to attempt the proposed "dragging" of potential impactors but to cause the impact with the Moon. We could not only learn about/perfect the process of "Dragging" but could gather data about the mass of the Impactor vs. the Crater created and impactor remnants (if any). This could serve to settle the argument about impactor survival and allow us to perfect possible Earth Saving ideas and methods.

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:15 pm

So often when opponents in discussions can't, or won't accept the known laws of physics, trajectories, and motion they resort to "name calling". Cosmo_uk started that from "it's" very first post on page 2 of this thread.

S.E.T.I., or the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, (also called Stupid Ear Toward Infinity by many) has limited it's search only to the possibilities of communications signals in the electromagnetic, and now optical, spectrums. While some of us search the more mundane optical band called "visible light" for signs of E.T.I.. As APOD is allowing and even using some of the S.E.T.I. pictures for it's POD, it stands to reason that discussion about the S.E.T.I. potentials besides just Radio Frequencies should be able to be discussed with out the moderators being the ones to start the name calling and belittlement of the posters.

The facts stand as they are and the reasons why certain topics are off limits remains an enigma, to say the least, to most. This completes my part of the research here at APOD and I thank all that have participated.

Norval L. Cunningham

makc · Post by **makc** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:33 pm

Just to comment, I would be more than happy to participate in "name calling" even if I was not a moderator of any sort. Simply because it's fun, you know. Sort of like kids in school bully on kids that are... well... irregular, to say it neutrally.

But, if I had my word meaning something here - like admin or something - I would simply get rid of you as someone who does not follow the rules of the place. And there's nothing personal here, or whatever. Just enforcing pre-set limits of what can be discussed. As you would put it, "information control" - because that is exactly the job of moderator, to control what's getting posted. Don't you think?

the reasons why certain topics are off limits remains an enigma

In past times, people have a nice little explanation that worked for them when nothing else did: "...for such is the will of gods; accept it"

This completes my part of the research here at APOD and I thank all that have participated.

Does this mean you think this thread has run its course?

makc · Post by **makc** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:47 pm

astro_uk wrote:The fact is, the moon has millions of craters, if you look at them at the right height/angle simple statistics will tell you that some of them will look like they have been arranged.

If you can program at a basic level you can verify this easily, simply write a program that produces randomly arranged circles of a random size. Then examine it dispationately and see how many "false positives" you get...

This sounds fun, let me think about it.

makc · Post by **makc** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:37 pm

all right, here goes quick little thing that draws 3000 random circles. the code in actionscript for flash player 8, for anyone to see there is no anything that adds patterns to the output:

Code: Select all

// canvas
var mc = _root.createEmptyMovieClip ("canvas", 1);

// this just draws a small circle
function makeSmallCircle (circle_mc, x, y) {
	var r = 3;
	var x0 = x -r, y0 = y -r;
	with (circle_mc) {
		lineStyle (1, 0xFFFF0000, 100);
		moveTo (x0+0*r,y0+1*r);
		curveTo(x0+0*r,y0+2*r,x0+1*r,y0+2*r);
		curveTo(x0+2*r,y0+2*r,x0+2*r,y0+1*r);
		curveTo(x0+2*r,y0+0*r,x0+1*r,y0+0*r);
		curveTo(x0+0*r,y0+0*r,x0+0*r,y0+1*r);
		endFill();
	}
}

// this generates a 3000 of circles
points = [];
for (var i = 0; i < 3000; i++) {
	var x = Math.floor(Stage.width  * Math.random ());
	var y = Math.floor(Stage.height * Math.random ());

	makeSmallCircle (mc, x, y); points.push (new Point (x, y));
}

here goes a screenshot with some circle chains I could spot:

sure thing, it will generate different (more or less chainy) picture for you.

THX1138 · Post by **THX1138** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:32 am

Makc, you’re a trip.
This site is really cool as far as I’m concerned, always something new and quite beautiful going on upstairs. Unfortunately, I’ll be missing out on all the fun for around six months.
Done my two terms in Iraq but have agreed to a special op’s run so hope to see you all months from now.
Maybe I’ll get lucky and get ole osama in my cross-hairs.
Goodbye you all, God bless America

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:07 pm

THX
Watch out for real "crater chains" that only automatic weapons fire can make. Stay out of harms way, if possible, in other words.

makc
Yes, I agree that the double standards here at ass tricks should continue, S.E.T.I. is OK to talk about, but not any that would show such a controversial discovery such as war showing intelligence.

Doum · Post by **Doum** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:18 am

THX1138,

It's out of the asterisk cafe of course but hey i hope you get osama and all the other too. See you in a few months. Ohh! by the way, i'm not from US but i want too to get them off the world. Go get them. Sry for being outside the cafe subject. My mouth is close now.

Back to the asterisk now. Mack, it's a nice demonstration you made. It remind me of these canals they were seeing on Mars.

makc · Post by **makc** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:14 pm

go for it THX, shoot osama and get a free tshirt from president.