At the edge of Victoria Crater (APOD 03 July 2007)

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:55 pm

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070703.html

This days APOD marks a great destination in the history of space exploration for many reasons.
1) Just arriving here is testament to what Humans can accomplish when challenged and funded properly.
2) There is much to be gained/learned by this method of otherworldy examination (robotic).
3) It helps us to develop and refine our space exploration programs to the point of nearly flawless operations.
4) We get to see these places and wonder at their magesty.
5) All that science that is gained in the understanding of the processes that have shaped this other planet in our solar system.

I can't wait to see what comes from beraching this crater rim and examining the mysteries it contains.

I like the WIKI image link that is in the second "Victoria Crater" link. It leads to the High Resolution image of the crater in which you can see the rover, mast, and double wheel tracks.

sjbrodeur · Post by **sjbrodeur** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:57 pm

Hi all-

This picture struck me as unusual because it looks so Earthlike.

In particular, I don't see the harsh, sharp contrasts and BLACK shadows that I associate with airless space. I have seen many other Martian pictures, but this one stands out (to me). Is there enough atmosphere on Mars to diffuse the light and soften this effect, or am I just imagining things?

Thanks in advance for any responses!

rclay · Post by **rclay** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:49 pm

I love the APOD and visit every single day for inspiration and information. But one request or suggestion keeps coming up im my mind, so here it is:

Would it be possible to add a small legend to the images, or add a phrase in the text, that gives a human scale when the image is of a land feature? For example, how high are the walls at Victoria in the "ramp" picture? Am I looking at a cliff 100 feet high, or a wall 20 feet high? Is the ramp leading into the crater 10 feet wide, or 100 feet wide?

This information would be very helpful because it would enable viewers to better imagine the realities of the scene. If I could visualize a mark on the wall that is, say, the size of an average human height, then suddently the significance or difficulty of the setting becomes much more accessible, and therefore, more interesting.

I hope my idea hasn't been expressed in too wordy a manner -- I just want to know what I'm looking at relative to a person standing in that scene -- would they see a mountain or a molehill? Since I'll never be able to stand on Mars myself, it would be pretty cool to at least imagine how it would appear to me, if I could. Thanks!

aichip · Post by **aichip** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:13 pm

Although they imaged this in L2-L5-L7, they still could have adjusted the color to pretty accurately represent the calibration fixture for the visible spectrum. L2 is not visible to the human eye except when it is the only light present (and you are well adapted to the dark) because it is actually near-infrared. Also, sensitivity to it varies from person to person.

Just the same, it can be used with some accuracy to represent red but balancing it is an art. If you take the L4-L5-L6 calibration images for the MarsDial, you can get a pretty accurate picture. I have done this and the resulting image is here:

The smoggy orange sky is a myth; if there was that much dust in the air, the shadows would be blurred like you see in a fog. They are in fact razor sharp, and the sky appears gray to blue. Enjoy.

pjroutledge · Post by **pjroutledge** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:51 pm

Is it just me, or are they really layers of sedimentary rock?

Layers that deep (I suppose I'm only guessing at the scale) could take a few million years to form, implying that the rocks were formed under a long term body of some liquid (probably water).

Peter

Andy Wade · Post by **Andy Wade** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:51 pm

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070703.html

Yeah, I'd agree with this point. Occasionally there are pictures where a scale would be really helpful.

aichip · Post by **aichip** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:37 am

You are correct; these are sedimentary rocks. They are layers of gypsum (calcium sulfate) with alternating layers of extremely fine silicate particles (diatom shells). NASA is saying that the silicates are from hot springs but let's face it- hot springs did not periodically inundate the whole of the planet periodically; that is ludicrous.

They have at last admitted that the planet was covered with oceans, and we can see that those bodies of water must have disappeared and then reappeared from time to time; that is evident from the breaks in the structure of the sediments.

The soil in Meridiani is roughly 40% salts, consisting of Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate), melanterite (iron sulfate), some chlorides and other salts as well. The salts are roughly 50% water of hydration by mass and the gypsum rock itself is roughly 21% water of hydration by mass. Even without taking groundwater into account, we have an unlimited water supply if we simply heat the rock and soil and catch the released water vapor.

So the planet went through periods of oceanic history and dry history in the Meridiani area, not unlike the local changes in climate on Earth. Close examination also shows the spherules to be pretty uniformly distributed throughout the sediments, and of pretty uniform size as well. I posted a great deal of material on this in the "Meridiani is a Seabed" thread and also on my site (listed here).

http://xenotechresearch.com

I am also assembling an L2-L5-L6 image of the crater shortly.

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:34 am

So often we have asked for that information.

orin stepanek · Post by **orin stepanek** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:11 pm

It's a long way down; but it looks like there may be a passage to the bottom if someone gets a chance to explore someday.

Orin

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:30 pm

Maybe they should impose the image of a human at the cliffs edge or better yet, the rover.

makc · Post by **makc** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:20 pm

craterchains wrote:So often we have asked for that information.

Damn, man, I totally forgot about that. I even made small star database, and a script to pull stars at specified patch of the sky, and went as far as to register a domain for that, and then... you know how that happens with things you are not paid for. But I still have those things, so I might save some time to finish that.

AZJames · Post by **AZJames** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:32 am

Thanks for a great image, aichip.

ta152h0 · Post by **ta152h0** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:14 am

going into the crater not only looks suicidal, but also a communications nighmare. Probably the same exact words Christopher Columbus heard. Pass the beer

mesaxi · Post by **mesaxi** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:42 pm

they should just rev up the little guys engines and launch him into the crater, like some sort of badass mechanical evl knevil. Possibly an upgrade would be in order then, some rocket engines and a parachute maybe? Then set it up on Pay Per View to fund the next shuttle launch, cuz that would be the only way to get the majority of the public to pay attention to anything other than what Paris Hilton did in jail without a Red Bull and a Spoon Full hourly (what a trooper).

ta152h0 · Post by **ta152h0** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:20 pm

looks like this particular crater is full of sand, and these machines don't do well in sand.

ta152h0 · Post by **ta152h0** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:24 pm

rereading the above post, may I suggest a high speed dash followed by a double twist in the pike position...........................................

Starship Asterisk*

At the edge of Victoria Crater (APOD 03 July 2007)

At the edge of Victoria Crater (APOD 03 July 2007)

APOD 2007 July 3 At the edge of Victoria Crater

Victoria Crater - size/scale reference would be so helpful!

Horrible NASA color, as usual

Victoria Crater - Sedimentary Rocks?

Re: Victoria Crater - size/scale reference would be so helpf

Sediments of Mars

looks like a suicide mission

from the orbital pictures

rereading the above post