Mars Water

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:38 pm

From the images I have looked at (many hundreds, if not thousands by now) clearly show water and debris movement up hills and mountains for a couple kilometers at least. FieryIce and I have been exploring that idea for about three years now. But because of secret agendas and closed door discussions about the same things we want to discuss, all we get are their politically correct interpretations of the images. I want the meat and
potatoes with clear clean water. What do we get instead; baby food, muddy water, and sanitized images and data.

Enough is enough.

Norval

harry · Post by **harry** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:36 am

I do not remember if you have seen this link

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020219.html

Water on the caps

Rev · Post by **Rev** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:45 am

Hi
Nice pictures. Nice to know Craterchains and Fieryice are on a similar frequency.
Thanks for the polar picture posting Harry. The polar ice almost seems to have a circumpolar flow mmmmmmmm.
This is an interesting link to Noachin pit craters and a boulder deposit in one of the pits Top right hand picture Note pits are in the south of the crater lining up with water-debri flow going north
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/01_ ... oachispit/
These are in the high flow southern areas about 47 south. I have said in the past that the flow was roughly north and this area would have been in a high flow area with high speed boulder laden water tumbling over the crater edge-- waterfalling over and shaping the pits. I would imagine much of the heavier boulder material would have been deposited in this manner. I just wander if there are other pits like these in the area or other southern latitude craters which have these pits in the south part of the crater perhaps with similar debris at the bottom.
Thanks to Malin space science systems for the links and pictures.
We are in a super frustrating area- I think I will have a beer!
regards Dave R

harry · Post by **harry** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:22 am

Hello Rev

You must like water.

Water water everywhere but not a drop to drink.

Smile

Rev · Post by **Rev** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:38 pm

Hi Harry
Does anyone drink that stuff

I had a look at a couple of interesting sites last night about Saturns moons- I knew of Promethius and its thieving qualities but did not know about Ensiladus and its atmosphere-lean. I am not sure of the orientation of its "Tail" but I presume there is a gravity induced direction of its atmophere and plume. I would imagine it would be a combination of the Sun Saturn and also Saturns ring debris.
It is to me interesting- the evidence and effect of gravity interaction between bodies. I presume comets could be included in that. I am relating the observations to Mars and its water and of course its atmosphere which has virtualy gone and to me-- in an an initial asymetric
lean of its atmosphere starting with the approach of the gravity source.
The crater pits of my last post are interesting- they are in the south of a crater complete with rubble debris and they have puzzled the "scientists"-- This all to me still leans to that northern direction waterflow-- just another clue.
regards Dave R

Empeda2 · Post by **Empeda2** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:54 pm

Another interesting element to throw into the discussion:

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0512/21marswater/

harry · Post by **harry** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:04 am

Hello Empeda2

Thank you for your link on mars

I read,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,smile

Merry Xmas

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:33 am

Happy New years to one and all.

Norval

FieryIce · Post by **FieryIce** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:37 pm

Let's not forget the weeping, leakage and dried ponds on Mars.

"Weeping" Layer in Gorgonum Chaos
Newton Crater: Evidence for Recent Water on Mars
Martian Crater Shows Evidence of Dried Pond

Rev · Post by **Rev** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:26 am

Hi
Happy new year folks
I have had a look at another posting by Aqua and a further post by Craterchains and I hope you both dont mind if I post the link by Craterchains
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/200 ... index.html
This particular picture is very interesting although it may not be of much value to me re water on Mars.
There would appear to be one water feature just below and halfway along the top wide streak- one of the tapering rivulets I have talked about previously. The picture description- quote
--The rocks in this August 2005 image were once below the ground and flat-lying. Now they are tilted on edge—a product of the impact that formed Oudemans Crater. Their regular layering and light tone suggest these might be ancient sedimentary rocks.
I am not quite sure re the layers but there would seem to be so many sedimentary layers it would be unlikely- but I do know very lttle about geology.
The top wide streak is interesting. To me it looks glacial with a debris build up at the edges. What could the feature be at the western edge of the top channel which resembles a foot with the toes pointing down- dit it cause the feature by being dragged along or am I reading the picture incorrectly.
Could the features be dry errosion or gravity induced as the picture does include weeping leakage evidence too.
regards Dave R

Rev · Post by **Rev** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:53 am

Hi
Just had a look at FieryIce's- last post and the reference to Newton Crater.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap000626.html
Great picture.
Just have a close look at rocks which protrude on the face of the feature and which way the sheltered debris tails point. There is evidence of down flow in the form of the evaporating rivulets I have talked about previously but the sheltered tails from the more catastrophic errosion would seem to go in the opposite direction
regards Dave R

FieryIce · Post by **FieryIce** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:37 pm

Looking at the larger area of the Valles Marineris and Labyrinthus Noctis might help. It has been said for some time now that the Valles Marineris is a collapsed area so the ends of the collapse should show some interesting indications of partial collapse and buckling, plus the added impacts and total area awash with water, surface material and debris.

P.S. Norval is slightly under the weather this morning but he suggests looking at the European Space Agency’s color images of the Newton Crater, they are better and the color helps, plus the top ridge in those color images show leakage. No one has mentioned black gold, Texas Tea on Mars since some of the leakage has peculiar look to it.

Rev · Post by **Rev** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:46 pm

Thanks FieryIce. and Norval.
I came across this picture the other day and it had me thinking. I still think I am on the right track.
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/pub ... 00015p.gif
Craterchains may find this interesting too if he has not seen it already.
The marks I see on the surface may or may not be debris marks from acretion debris taken in the process described in the original posting, but the marks have a distinct orientation and a fairly acute strike angle which would line up with some debris falling back in the process. Perhaps they are not strike marks at all but they provoke thought in a similar direction.
What would be interesting would be to go down to the altitude they may have come in at and look at the strike patterns again which with the topography of the surface- may produce a more linear pattern.
Regards a thought process-- Lets say Mars did have the water and an associated atmosphere to go with it to retain the warmth and the liquid state. Lets say the atmosphere and the water were taken -- (preferably by my original process.) Now consider recent meteor encounters with Earth that come in at a shallow angle to Earth and begin to burn as they hit the atmosphere and then bounce off again. What I am saying is- the acute angle will bounce objects away again and if they dont bounce off they are slowed down to strike with a fairly vertical angle.
Lets say that with mars-- after the event- the water and most importantly the atmosphere went with it, we would see some recent crater evidence of meteor strikes with fairly acute strikes compared with older - atmosphere strikes.
To sum up-- I am trying to say (badly) a study of old water and atmosphere present strikes compared with new atmosphere and water gone strikes may show a more acute strike angle for the latter. It will take a while with my steam driven computer at 24000 bps- an hour for one picture the other day. Dial up and bad country lines!
I am still thinking about the Texas Tea.
Regards Dave R