Ugly Piece of Earth Raping Hardware (APOD 22 Nov 2006)

Richard Fredrick · Post by **Richard Fredrick** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:28 am

I'm sorry that my first post to this discussion group is going to sound negative, but I feel that I must comment.

APOD has at its disposal a vast number of images of strange, inspiring, beautiful objects, both on Earth and in the rest of the universe. I never imagined that I would see something as, for want of a better word, ugly as the current (11/22/06) image.

To be quite honest, I can't imagine a logical argument for featuring that beast on APOD. Sure, the scars of its work can be seen from space and it moves even slower than the Apollo/Shuttle crawlers, but surely there are better images. This one just makes me a little uncomfortable in that somehow I probably derive some benefit from that monster's use.

Again, I apologize that my first post is so negative. I generally enjoy the images on APOD (it's my home page at home and work.)

I'm putting on my asbestos suit and kicking over the soapbox...

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:07 am

I for one would like to have seen the open pit mine in the link be one that had one of these behemoths in operation. Here is another image of one in operation http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... weiler.jpg

ckam · Post by **ckam** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:09 am

looky here

as seen from damn space! better spot, yet 8)

jelleoelle · Post by **jelleoelle** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:02 am

I agree. It's impressive and all, but it doesn't have anything to do with astronomy!

Bob Stothfang · Post by **Bob Stothfang** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:59 am

No asbestos suit required here, my first thoughts about the "scar maker" photo on 11/22 mirrored yours exactly.

What I found really interesting though is my next daily stop after APOD is the Earth Science Photo of the Day and it featured a photo of the Mercury transit. You can see today's (11/22) photo here:
http://epod.usra.edu/archive/epodviewer.php3?oid=337248

ckam · Post by **ckam** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:55 pm

ckam wrote:looky here as seen from damn space! better spot, yet 8)

Don't you get it? From SPACE! It is obvious link to astronomy!

Orca · Post by **Orca** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:55 pm

Richard, I have been a regular viewer of APOD for years and have not seen anything like that posted. I pretty much felt the same way you did.

I think most of us are impressed by gigantic machinery of any kind; however, some of us can't maintain a positive outlook if the purpose of the machine has, in our minds, a negative impact.

The idea of a machine that can tear apart entire mountains never set well with me.

ben · Post by **ben** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:31 pm

I also agree with Richard! I made a similar complaint once when the APOD was a picture of an airplane belching smoke out of its end (to trick radar? I don't remember) but I got flamed down because of it was supposedly connected with aeronautics..... but yes, I would indeed like to hear what this big machine has to do with astronomy. It's almost an insult to our intellegence when the author tries to fashion a slim connection by saying that the hole it digs can be seen from space -- then show us the picture from space! Another thing that bothers me is that the author didn't see fit to mention anything about the serious environmental consequences of strip mining..... that might at least have revealed a connection to earth and planetary science....

Certainly, the most irrelevant APOD I've seen since I became a fan....

n9lij · Post by **n9lij** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:05 pm

I couldn't agree more. This is also my first post. I wanted to make a similar comment to yours, so I read the rules for posting, and found out that posts were to be related to astronomy, science, etc. I guess our posts, as well as the APOD are not allowed. Just the mention of NASA crawler and space shuttle, somehow don't qualify this image as an astronomical picture of the day.

Sincerely,

J. Brennan Fitzl

ckam · Post by **ckam** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:19 pm

ben wrote:It's almost an insult to our intellegence when the author tries to fashion a slim connection by saying that the hole it digs can be seen from space -- then show us the picture from space! Another thing that bothers me is that the author didn't see fit to mention anything about the serious environmental consequences of strip mining.

1st, I am not APOD author;

2nd, I have posted two links that show you "the picture from space!" if you follow them;

3rd, "serious environmental consequences of strip mining" are natural fuels, ores and other various resources that power up our economy, or better, our whole civilization. come to think about it, we can enjoy many things we do, like posting these messages on this message board, because these machines are doing their job.

orin stepanek · Post by **orin stepanek** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:48 pm

I; for one was in awl by the size of the machine. I don't think it's ugly. The grid work reminded me on a ferris wheel grid work; or that of a giant erector set. I believe that most strip mining projects have to repair the scars of mining before they move on. Maybe it's not required in some countries.
Orin

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:43 pm

It reminded me of a gigantic sextant http://www.westsea.com/tsg3/octlocker/o ... 3inst.html
maybe they could use the design to build a gigantic mobile telescope???

CKAM
Thanks for the links, Impressive piece of hardware but Rat Butt ugly land scars.

iamlucky13 · Post by **iamlucky13** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:09 pm

It's a fantastic piece of engineering to be sure, and I like pictures from the Hubble, computers, and all the other things "earth raping" devices like this enable us to create as much as the next guy, but I too have to admit, this is stretching the relevance of APOD little too thin.

However, as long as we're on the topic, here's a really interesting photo set that gives another perspective on how big this thing is. Keep an eye out for the bulldozer:

http://thrillingwonder.blogspot.com/200 ... hines.html

alanh1954 · Post by **alanh1954** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:10 pm

I was also sad to see this piece of machinery as picture of the day, but for several reasons. The first and foremost reason is that I am involved with some of my neighbors in my community in protesting the coal-fired power plant that belches pollution and carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Our protest has branched off into several areas; and one of these is the destruction of the earth that is taking place to get coal out of the ground. A lot of it comes from open pit mines in South America; but a good deal of it also comes from "mountaintop removal" in places like West Virginia. People who own homes in the valleys below a moutain targeted for coal mining are forced out of their homes by the mining company making offers on their houses; if they do not accept these offers, the mining begins and the dust and smoke FORCES them to agree to sell their homes. A huge machine (not the one in the APOD, but one that's just about the same size, I believe) removes huge slabs right off the top of the mountain and dumps them into the valleys below. This makes access to the coal deposits inside of the mountain available.

The second reason I am sad to see machines like this glorified in APOD is because they are responsible for destroying some of the oldest mountains in the world -- which are the Appalachian Mountains. True, the damage to earth from these kind of machines can be seen from space -- but what would "visitors" to our planet think as they descended into our orbit and saw the scars that we have made on our beautiful planet? That we have no value for something that took our planet millions of years to form?

I would have like to have seen some commentary in the APOD on the negative aspects of how these machines are ravaging the earth.

Please visit these links to find out more about mountaintop removal in the Appalachian Mountains:

http://www.ohvec.org/index.html

http://campusprogress.org/cartoon/430/a ... -matt-bors

kiffy · Post by **kiffy** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:44 pm

Some things make me embarassed to be a part of civilization. This is one of them. I don't care if you can see it from space. This is a noxious machine that has no other purpose than to raise the profit margin of some large corporation. Does anyone know who manufactures these behemoths? The caption may've stated the manufacturer, but I was so angry when I saw the picture, the reading became a blur. I have looked at this site for years and loved every image that has been submitted - that is, until today. It amazes me that something like this has not raised eyebrows before today - tell me I'm wrong and where I can write to complain!!

iamlucky13 · Post by **iamlucky13** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:04 am

This could rapidly turn into a flamewar over, shall I say, the costs and benefits of open pit mining. I know I personally have been resisting the urge to respond to some of the comments here, but I don't think anything I could say on the topic of mining practices would lead to meaningful, and certainly not APOD-relevant conversation.

In the interest of regulating ourselves, I'd like to quite recommend we restrict our discussion on this APOD to topics relevant to astronomy and space exploration. For example, "This APOD is utterly irrelevant" or "I wonder if we could use these for in-situ resource utilization on asteroids."

It would be quite ironic if we complained about the relevance of a digging machine to astronomy, then proceeded to debate the merits of the use of such diggers in an astronomy forum.

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:17 am

I am perplexed about the negative opinions on the APOD picture.

- If you don't like today's picture wait until tomorrow.
- As Grandma would say " If you can't say something nice, say nothing"
- Yes, it may have some negative impact, what about black lung and subterranean explosions?
- Is keeping energy cost down a bad thing?
- With a small effort a strip mine can become a viable forest in less that 100 years.
- If you have a problem with the technology, state your alternative so your solution(s) can be scrutinized.

When is everything going to be just right for me?

( When you get to the other side of the Pearly Gates!)

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:47 am

Disscussions here never HAVE to be about APOD. This is an astronomy and science open-opinion forum and so far I have seen just that. How ironic is that?

My opinion.....It was because I saw this picture in APOD that my first thought was "wow, what would it take to get this beast into space and on an asteroid or a moon." Not "oh the poor lumps of rock and dirt."

We are here to do what we can so that we may continue to exist. And I will mention it in case you are not aware of it.......Us humans are in a race. A race to make a home in space before the next terrible event renders our planet unkind to humankind. If you think this can be done by thinking small and "must protect the daisies" you are very much wrong and you do not speak for me or my children or my children's children ..etc.. Life is destruction we must all face that reality sooner or later.

Just because you decide to move on or next to a mountain does not give you anymore right to claim it for preservation than those that want to mine it. Regulations Yes - cease construction/mining and exploration NO.

This machine's work dwarfs the scars of more natural means anyday. And it is all too relvant in an astronomy forum. Astronomy and science was founded on dreams and disbeliefs in the pursuit of truths.

ckam · Post by **ckam** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:03 am

edit: did i just said all of that... nevermind. luddites ha ha... why do you always have to complain about these things? just stay away from females, and environmental pressure growth could be slowed down significantly

FieryIce · Post by **FieryIce** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:53 pm

jelleoelle wrote:I agree. It's impressive and all, but it doesn't have anything to do with astronomy!

Epod would be the logical site for this image about huge resource gathering machines but remember the main premise is astronomy so find the relevance.

Look at the Uranian moon Miranda, the scaring called chevrons:
Target is Miranda

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:34 pm

The dark blotchiness in these images of Pluto and Charon http://www.nineplanets.org/pluto.html
will probably show a similarity to Miranda http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA00140.jpg

FieryIce,
Interesting how this outer moon does appear strip mined, Interesting correlation

Galactic Groove · Post by **Galactic Groove** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:33 pm

i can't believe it, i just wrote about 2 hours of stuff about this, my session disconnected, and now everything i wrote is lost........ wonderful (i've left out swear words out of respect but it was hard) Admin, this seriously needs to be fixed, it's not the first time

DavidLeodis · Post by **DavidLeodis** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:28 pm

The credit for the APOD in question has a link to the SwapMeetDave website, but when I went into that site I was unsure what it has to do with the APOD. Did the Dave Ahl who runs the SwapMeetDave website take the image

Nereid · Post by **Nereid** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:52 pm

Threads on same APOD merged; the other thread was started by kiffy, and was entitled "I'm Embarassed 11/22/06".

l3p3r · Post by **l3p3r** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:59 am

I for one was pretty impressed by the sheer size of this machine. Any APOD which impresses me is fine! (i.e. not one of those silly artists impressions of what multiple universes look like :p)

That said it was a little left of field...

Starship Asterisk*

Ugly Piece of Earth Raping Hardware (APOD 22 Nov 2006)

Ugly Piece of Earth Raping Hardware (APOD 22 Nov 2006)

A?POD

I'm Embarassed 11/22/06

i'm pissed off!