Branes and the Big Bang

RJ Emery · Post by **RJ Emery** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:21 am

In the 3rd episode of the PBS Nova presentation of “The Elegant Universe", the following dialog ensues:

Burt Ovrut (Univ. of Pennsylvania): It’s so simple. Here’s a brane on which we live, and here’s another brane floating in a higher dimension. There’s absolutely nothing difficult about imagining that these (clap) collide with each other.

Brian Greene: According to this idea, sometime before the Big Bang, two branes carrying parallel universes began drifting toward each other ... until (bang)

Ovrut: All this energy has to go somewhere. Where does it go? It goes into the Big Bang. It creates the expansion that we see and it heats up all the particles in the universe in this big fiery mass.

(end dialog)

My question is what energy? Did the other brane impart energy to our brane? What happened to the other brane when contact was made?

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:15 am

The source of the "energy" will remain unknown until the qualities of the other proposed seven of eleven dimensions are understood. The theory suggests the colliding branes created space/time and matter/energy as a byproduct (the beginning of our universe). The other seven dimensions do not readily interact with the four from our universe making it difficult to create a comprehensive theoretical model. If pre-Big Bang there were seven dimensions, one or fifty, those answers are decades away.

The BB was the start of space/time, the "energy" was already there in some form, "already" is a type of oxymoron when referring to a non-space/time period or a different space/time not of our universe.

harry · Post by **harry** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:15 am

Hello All

I had to smile,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:29 pm

RJ Emery wrote:My question is what energy? Did the other brane impart energy to our brane? What happened to the other brane when contact was made?

The end results would be interdimentional / an attempt at time travel. This I think would be highly dangerous and probably weaponised if ever discovered.

Norval

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:16 pm

If contact between these (Mem)branes was the beginning of our four physical dimensions, and existed prior to the Big Bang then they are part of the universe and as such denote a universal existance that predates the Big Bang.

Try this for a theory:

Dimentional membrane A
Interspacial dimention
Dimentional membrane B

Brane A makes contact thru the interspacial dimension with Brane B and causes a reaction creating the other dimensions in a sandwhich effect. Creating a new gravitational dimension:

Dimentional membrane A
Interspacial dimension
Gravitational dimension
Interspacial dimension
Dimentional membrane B

The gravitons in the newly created gravitational dimention react with and pull Membrane A and Membrane B together again in a much stronger reaction creating a Matter dimension surrounded by a Space/time bubble

Dimentional membrane A
Interspacial dimention
Gravitational dimention
Space ti(Matter dimention)me bubble
Gravitational dimention
Interspacial dimention
Dimentional membrane B

Gravity causes space time to stretch in every direction creating our 3 spacial dimention visible universe

01 Dimentional membrane A................A
02 Interspacial dimention (top).............I
03 Gravitational dimention (top)...........G
04 Space time bubble (top)..................S
05 Spacial dimention Length.................L
06 Spacial dimention Width..................W
07 Spacial dimention Height.................H
08 Space time bubble (bottom)............S
09 Gravitational dimention (bottom).....G
10 Interspacial dimention (bottom)......I
11 Dimentional membrane B..............B

This would give the universe this structure

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
IIIAIIIIIAIIIIIIIIIIAIIIIIIIIIIAIIIAIIIIIIIIIAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIAIIIIAIIIIIII
IIIIIIGIIIIIIIGIIIIIIIIIIGIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGIIIIIIIIIGIGIIIIIIIIIIGIIIIIIIIIGII
IIIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGII
IGSSSSSSSSGSSSSSSSGSSSSSSSSSSGSSSSSSSGSSSSSSSGSSSSSII
IIGSHWGLHHHLGLWWHWLLGWGHLLGGGLLHHGLGLWWGLGWSSGII
IIGSLWLHGWLHLLGGWWHLGHGLHGWGWHLWLGWWHLGGWGLSGII
IIGSWLGLHLLWGHGLWLLWGWLLHGHHLGWWLLGHWLLWLLHGSGII
IIIGSSSSSGSSSGSSSSSSSGSSSGSSSSGSSSSSSSGSSSSSSGSSSSSIII
IIIIIIGIIGIGIIIIIIIGIIIIIIIGIIGIIIIIIIGIIIIGIIIIGIIIIIIIGIIIIIIGIIIIIIIGIII
IIIIBIIIIBIIBIIIIIIIBIIIIIBIIIIIBIIIIIIBIIIIIBIIIIIBIIIIIIBIIIBIIIIIIBIIIIIBI
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

Just a possible theory

orin stepanek · Post by **orin stepanek** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:38 pm

Maybe dark matter is from being felt from the other dimension. A leftover effect from after the collusion of the two universes? Maybe we can feel it but can't see it because it's in another dimension?

Just a thought on my part.

Orin

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:53 pm

orin stepanek wrote:Maybe dark matter is from being felt from the other dimension. A leftover effect from after the collusion of the two universes? Maybe we can feel it but can't see it because it's in another dimension? Just a thought on my part.
Orin

You're on the right track, keep those thought experiments going.

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:08 pm

Perhaps dark matter is simply a result of the vacillating environment of space?

Wadsworth · Post by **Wadsworth** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:00 pm

These branes must be highly dense to form a point collision that would result in such massive energy production.

Whose to say if these membranes wouldn't simply pass through each other? Or stick together?

also,

Gravity causes space time to stretch in every direction creating our 3 spacial dimention visible universe

Why would gravity cause space time to stretch in every direction?

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:04 pm

Wadsworth wrote:These branes must be highly dense to form a point collision that would result in such massive energy production.

Whose to say if these membranes wouldn't simply pass through each other? Or stick together?

also,

Gravity causes space time to stretch in every direction creating our 3 spacial dimention visible universe
Why would gravity cause space time to stretch in every direction?

You are using 4 dimensional terns that may not apply to the physics of the pre-Big Bang. Maybe our 4 dimensions are others "stuck together" or broken apart. Because there is no tools to understand "what" happened, it will require even more work to prove "how" it happened. The data simply states something happened to create the universe, and now are using reverse-engineering and our best tools to see what/how it happened.

It is the presence of matter that creates space/time, depending on how one looks at it, gravity is a derivative of matter.

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:03 pm

Gravity is an attracting force. Internal to planetary bodies, it attracts matter to its center. As an external force acting in a separate dimension it would act to attract in every direction thereby pulling in every direction.

orin stepanek · Post by **orin stepanek** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:47 pm

This is interesting. I don't know if it's believable or not.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=510772
If true it could explain where 80% of dark matter lies. If each brane has 3 dimensions like ours [4 counting time]; and each could be as large as ours and all were clumped together. That would hold the universe together.

Orin

Qev · Post by **Qev** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:16 pm

orin stepanek wrote:This is interesting. I don't know if it's believable or not.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=510772
If true it could explain where 80% of dark matter lies. If each brane has 3 dimensions like ours [4 counting time]; and each could be as large as ours and all were clumped together. That would hold the universe together.
Orin

Weird... is the '83 actually part of her name? oO;

orin stepanek · Post by **orin stepanek** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:26 pm

Qev wrote:
orin stepanek wrote:This is interesting. I don't know if it's believable or not.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=510772
If true it could explain where 80% of dark matter lies. If each brane has 3 dimensions like ours [4 counting time]; and each could be as large as ours and all were clumped together. That would hold the universe together.
Orin
Weird... is the '83 actually part of her name? oO;

I was wondering if it meant the class of 83'; anyway here is more information.
http://physics.harvard.edu/people/facpages/randall.html
Orin

Lowe · Post by **Lowe** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:33 pm

Where did branes come from? At some point there had to a time when there was no matter or energy and then branes existed. How did all of the matter and energy of these branes arise from nothing?

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:35 pm

Lowe wrote:Where did branes come from? At some point there had to a time when there was no matter or energy and then branes existed. How did all of the matter and energy of these branes arise from nothing?

If you reverse your question:

What happened to the branes that caused the creation of time?
(Branes existed before time)

Then you would have a wonderful question heading in the right direction.

Solve the unified theory problem and you may have you answer.

Lowe · Post by **Lowe** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:20 am

Dr. Skeptic wrote: What happened to the branes that caused the creation of time?
(Branes existed before time)

I'm sorry, but this sounds nonsensical to me. How can something exist before time? It seems to me that at the instant that something exists then time starts.

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:49 am

True, at the instant that something exists then time starts - in our four dimensional universe. In theory, the other seven dimensions do not (may not) interact with space/time. If the M-theory is correct, both space/time and gravity are unique to our 4 dimensions. The concept of an existence void of space time is perplexing.

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:48 pm

Time, time, and time -I fundamentally understand the principles of this word and its relevance in a 3+1 dimensional existence however, I believe it to be greatly exaggerated as to its relevance to the physical structure of the universe.

I desperately want to see its significance but I am struggling- for is it not ultimately just a byproduct of measurement? I find it more likely that it is of intellectual structure than physical structure. I know physical properties are governed by it but what EXACTLY does this mean? Is time truly a thing to be measured or is it just a part of a measuring system?

I say its just part of a measuring system

Dr. Skeptic -

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:21 pm

Time is "just" a part ...

Should I interpret that as "only"

Time is much more than the passing of an event, it can be a factor inserted into any and every mathematical equation. In SR it is a extremely fluid variable. The excepted term "Space/Time" proves they are 100% interdependent. Time is a dimension all its own. It is also the most valuable commodity ever!

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:27 pm

Please define "fluid variable".

Please address this specifically as well:

"The intellectual structure of the universe vs. the physical structure of the universe".

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:41 pm

Please define "fluid variable".

A fluid variable is one that's value is based on the changing of external conditions - a non static variable.

"The intellectual structure of the universe vs. the physical structure of the universe".

I don't believe this is one of my quotes, do you have a context this came from or would you like me to "wing it"?

orin stepanek · Post by **orin stepanek** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:07 pm

I have a hard time defining time as a dimension. Time only travels one way forward. length width and depth create volume that can be be measured. Time creates history. It too can be measured but differently. It really doesn't occupy any space though it exists along with space. I think time is more a property of the three dimensions. Please explain how it is a dimension.

Orin

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:19 pm

A contrasting view is that time is part of the fundamental intellectual structure (together with space and number) within which we sequence events, quantify the duration of events and the intervals between them, and compare the motions of objects. In this view, time does not refer to any kind of entity that "flows", that objects "move through", or that is a "container" for events. This view is in the tradition of Gottfried Leibniz and Immanuel Kant, in which time, rather than a thing to be measured, is part of the measuring system.

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:58 am

I'm not coming up with a quick answer. Space and time are in a symbiotic relationship, one cannot exist with out the other. An object can be represented on a 3D graph, to plot where it resides in both time and space to another 3D object, a fourth dimension needs to be added.

I know I can explain the concept much better than that, I'll need to ponder awhile.

Starship Asterisk*

Branes and the Big Bang

Branes and the Big Bang

Re: Branes and the Big Bang

Branes

Re: Branes

Re: Branes