Which satellite is this?

[LReese]

I'd like to add my "vote" to the Atlas launch vehicle fuel dump hypothesis, as this seems to account very neatly for all observable aspects of this phenonmena. However, if I recall correctly, there was mention that this was visible either the next evening as well, or at other NSL sites over 15+ hours. Does a fuel dump last sufficiently long before dispersion to account for the length of time this was observable? Also, would the fuel dump have been in the correct relationship to the sun (outside, or close to outside) Earth's shadow to allow lighting in the manner and for the time period observed? I don't have the orbital mechanics/geometry skills or data to perform these calculations, but thing the answer to them is a key aspect of this intriguing object.

Lastly, several individuals here have commented that this object or others they have observed have moved through the sky soundlessly. Having grown up and spent much time around the military and airbases I don't find that particularly probative. Even low flying aircraft can appear to be soundless given the right conditions, and of course sufficient altitude can render even the noisiest air vehicle completely silent to an observer on the ground. Just an observation.

Love the discussion, thank you all.

LReese

[mactypetim]

I'm not experienced with the actual math, but a couple things should be easily calculated:

IF the object is in earth orbit, then its altitude can easily be calculated just by how fast it is crossing the sky. The time is captured in the pictures, the location is relative to the stars. An earlier post suggested about 50 degrees in 20 minutes, which is about right. There's no such thing as a "slow" satellite in orbit. The speed and height are related. At 23000 miles, the satellite would not (appear to) move at all (geosynchronous). At 200 miles it crosses the entire sky in less than 5 minutes (look up upcoming ISS or HST passes on Heavens Above). So, if it is in orbit, it is well above 200 miles, and well below 23000. I'm sure someone who knows this stuff can be fairly precise. (I'm not sure how a highly elliptical orbit changes this, but I think its not by much.)

It may not be in orbit. It could be higher, and passing by. It can't be lower. To be lower, it would have to be in the atmosphere (eg a blimp, weather balloon, etc) With the cameras 50KM apart, and the maximum atmospheric height around 30KM (~20 miles), the parallax would be huge. This thing would not be in the same constellation. Indeed, at 25Km up, and between the cameras, one would show it at 45 degrees above one horizon, one would show it 45 degrees above the OPPOSITE horizon.

Whatever it is, it is very high (ie in space).

Wow: somebody is thinking!

A few notes on my part -

1. If it is a cloud of fuel then it would have to be out of the atmosphere or the fuel would not have built up around the object (more info needed!).

2. I am no expert, but it seems to me that altitude would be the most important factor of all as that would limit our options.

3. Ditto donb! Thank you! Why has someone not gone farther with his assertion? Couldn't one use the stars as an anchor point to trangulate roughly between the two cameras?

[me]

If you wathc closely you can see it colapsing on inward.

[Refugee]

Can anyone explain why so many of us assume the object is even in space? Can't it be just - oh, I don't know, a weather balloon? Or an ultralight aircraft piloted bya drunk who forgot to turn off his landing lights?

[dkroneb]

Has the government calculated size and speed of the object? Does anyone have the distance it was at above the earth?

I agree that the speed of the object is very interesting.

[Guest]

Maybe it is a Chinese spy sattelite...?

[SaKaMoNi]

IF this thing actually slowed down as previously suggested, would that not be controlled flight?

[Elaine]

It was the Atlas-5/AMC-16 fuel dump. Launched on Dec.16.

[Myke]

This forum is getting the type of play that results in throw-away posts from self-congratulatory wits, crackpots and (worst of all) political partisans.

Please, those of you responsible for the outstanding discussion on pages 1 - 6, DONT RUN AWAY. Yes, a moderator would be a blessing, but absent that, trust the rest of us to operate our own filters...we'll get through to your offerings if you continue to make them.

In other words: More updates on the fuel dump hypothesis please!

Thanks!

[yet another guest view]

since the description indicates that TWO sites recorded the event, doesn't that imply that it's distance can be determined rather easily?

has anyone done that yet?

The simple calculation of triangulation assumes that both pictures were snapped at exactly the same moment. But since both cameras were snapping pictures at different intervals, additional calculations by expert mathematicians will have to be done to correct for this that and the other things...

What if it was a test to see whether or not we would notice if something was launched from our sea-space. If not, then next time they could launch something with a horrible payload and have it blamed on us.

this is just yet another guest vew

[Guest]

This forum is getting the type of play that results in throw-away posts from self-congratulatory wits, crackpots and (worst of all) political partisans.

Please, those of you responsible for the outstanding discussion on pages 1 - 6, DONT RUN AWAY. Yes, a moderator would be a blessing, but absent that, trust the rest of us to operate our own filters...we'll get through to your offerings if you continue to make them.

In other words: More updates on the fuel dump hypothesis please!

Thanks!

Myke,
I have learned from experience that one must, despite however tempting they might make the prospect of embarrassing them in conversation, ignore them.

[aflyonthewall]

this link is on the Drudge Site today,,, say what you will but Drudge has everything everyday for the uninformed... and ok,,, you have to have credibility before can lose it,, maybe someone lit a match around ted

[speedracer3]

Did anyone catch the photos of the ship in orbit around saturn on Coast to Coast, Art bells old website; now the George Noory website? I think you will find a NASA jpeg that shows this cylinder in orbit around Saturn very, very creepy.....

[billbeck]

What was the streak seen over Hawaii? Well consider a few facts.
The Moon could not have been involved with some sort of glare in the optics, as it set around 08:00UT at that location and the streak is seen around 17 UT. I understand that there is no real paralax seen from the two Hawaii locations, so we can rule out low Earth Orbit for the object. The fact it moves across some 35-40 degrees of sky in 20 mins means it has to be up rather high and that would seem to indicate an altitude of some 3,000 - 5000 miles. (not sure of my math here!). So what ever it was has to be fairly bright and up high. Note the brightness of Jupiter in the east. The exposure times are regular and therefore, since the object is MOVING and not still as Jupiter is, it has to be brighter, and my guess is about -2 magnitude or a bit dimmer.
It COULD be a highly eliptical orbit and moving away or towards the earth, but in any case, it is of significant size to reflect that much light and almost surely metalic.

I have been observing the night sky rather frenquently for over 45 years and have seen one or two things I could not explain. But for discussion, here are my best guesses:

1. A booster rocket stage dumping unused fuel (someone needs to check from launches.
2. Space junk in high orbit at just the right angle to reflect sunlight.
3. A rock passing VERY near the Earth - it would have to be at least 100 meters wide to be that bright.
4. A small comet. Remember that SOHO picks up many of these near the sun and we do not see them. In addition, this object was heading east into the solar glare, and could have been lost to others because of that.
5. Some rare and unknown electrical event - not likely this because I understand that there was not paralax seen between the two Hawian sites.
6. Some new and secret space plane. Remember the SR-71 Blackbird was being tested long before it became known. What better places to test a new craft than over the Pacific?

I would like to hear what others think of my small comet idea and the other thoughs I have as well. Thanks, and CLEAR SKIES to all - looks like astronomy can be exiting at times! Bill Smith, in northern CA.

[Guest]

is it possible that it's a laser created guide star?

[guesty]

ahh well.. i'll be the first to say something nonsensical.. if this object is unidentified, would it be an unidentified flying object??

[billbeck]

The planet seen in the eastern sky from Hawaii was SATURN and not Jupiter - my error - that makes the extimated magnitude even a bit brighter. (I got my planet symbols mixed up!) I used "YOUR SKY" to create the night sky for Hawaii on that date and time. Bill Smith, CA

[mattos]

i'm entirely ignorant of this subject, but i was curious about the story b/c of something i saw last week: i was driving home, about 6:00 EST, when i saw a bright line about a centimeter long at about a 30 degree angle and about 30 degrees off the horizon. it shown like it had its own light or was reflecting light. and it didn't move, or it moved to slow for me to tell. as the road would wind i wouldn't see it anymore and then when the road turned back there it would be unchanged and unmoving. it was too short and bright to be a contrail, at least the way they normally look. it was odd enough to me that i called my wife to explain it. anyways, when i saw this story on drudge i thought i'd see if it was the similar and it did look a lot like the line in the 2nd and 3rd pictures in the first post in this thread.

[Guest]

How about a near earth asteroid, or other relatively small space rock less than a million miles distant?

[Lonnie]

The series of pictures 4 minutes apart that was on today's Astronomy Picture of the Day makes it look much as if,whatever the object is, it's definitely slowing. It goes from a long streak down to an oval (Disc??)over a 10 minute period.

[billbeck]

Good idea - however, if it were that far out, other cameras or scopes would have had a pretty good chance of picking it up. There are many patrol cameras around the world that would have a chance to do so. The fact is was so bright seems to rule that out. A check would have to be made of all pictuers taken on that date. I am surprised that some other astronomers both pro and amateur did not see it. Another camera in Hawaii did, but so far I have not read any reports of others in the Islands picking it up. Bill Smith

[Guest]

Maybe it was a bottle rocket?

[ronp7]

It would be nice to know the altitude and speed of this object. If you watch the the clip closely there is one point you can see what appears to be a wing and rudder of an aircaft. But this is proably just the way the light is reflecting off of the object. So I would agree that it is just a piece of space debris

[R.L.]

is it possible that it's a laser created guide star?

The laser guide star created by the laser is 9-11th magnitude- the streak was clearly much brighter than that. Furthermore there is only one laser guide star system around there and it is at Keck. There was not a laser run that day. When the laser is run it shows up on the mauna kea concam as a thin line originating from the keck 2 dome on the left hand side of the image.

[roosevelt HS]

Could the object be an interceptor from Vandenburg for the ABM program?They're not fast, but they get pretty high fast, so the booster rocket and plume would be long gone.