Voynich manuscript discussion: 2005 January 22

[Louise]

Too much information to read for me right now, but I don't think its the sun, it's the moon; the first and last 'kwartier' (don't now the english word), but it's the moon in the center becoming full and getting smaller again. the three fases in one.

[Sir John]

Looks like a hoax to me.The Stars and Stripes are a dead giveaway, with the cute modern facial cartoons. Don't we have enough of this rubbish with the Da Vinci code.

[Ashen]

I would not be to quick to jump on the hoax bandwagon as the easiest thing to do if you can't figure it out is to say "It doesn't mean anything!"
or "It's nothing but gibberish" After all we would never have been able to translate heiroglyphs if it were not fot the rosetta stone.

[Guest]

http://www.sbuniv.edu/~hgallatin/ht34633e08.html#pri

[Helen]

This excerpt from the SciAm article (link previously posted in thread) seems to second the motion that it's a hoax:

"For example, the word lengths of Voynichese form a binomial distribution--that is, the most common words have five or six characters, and the occurrence of words with greater or fewer characters falls off steeply from that peak in a symmetric bell curve. This kind of distribution is extremely unusual in a human language. In almost all human languages, the distribution of word lengths is broader and asymmetric, with a higher occurrence of relatively long words. It is very unlikely that the binomial distribution of Voynichese could have been a deliberate part of a hoax, because this statistical concept was not invented until centuries after the manuscript was written. "
http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm? ... 414B7F0000

But the Stars and Stripes, or for that matter the Procter and Gamble logo arrived even later than the binomial distribution - and I understand the ink on the manuscript has been dated conclusively.

[Helen]

By "hoax" I only meant it's neither a language nor a linguistic code with one-to-one correspondence in letters. Does anybody know if gambling was illegal in the 16th century? That binomial distribution suggests this whole book is some sort of medieval casino.

[Guest]

http://reference.allrefer.com/country-g ... gal34.html

[Guest]

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_1 ... _west1.htm

[yuguy]

It's a hoax!!! The pic posted on AOPD, 1/22/05 is clearly that of the headdress for a captain of a Fancy Brigade for a Philadelphia Mummer’s parade, circa 1920. Accordingly, the script is probably of South Philly origin too which would account for the inability of linguists and cryptographers to understand it.

[Guest]

http://www.ceha-madeira.net/livros/madeira1.htm 8)

[Paula in OR]

This is probably a book on astrology written by an amateur who made his or her living by telling fortunes.

[Guest]

http://www.ethnologue.com/site_search.asp#sp

[Guest]

Languages of Cape Verde Islands

Republic of Cape Verde. República de Cabo Verde. National or official languages: Portuguese, Kabuverdianu. 408,000 (1998 UN). Literacy rate 37% to 70%. Information mainly from J. Holm 1989; S. and T. Graham 1998. Christian, secular. Data accuracy estimate: B. The number of languages listed for Cape Verde Islands is 2. Of those, both are living languages. Diversity index 0.00.

Spoken living languages KABUVERDIANU [KEA] 393,943 including 255,101 in Sotavento or 65% of the speakers, 138,842 in Barlavento or 35% of the speakers (1998 S. Graham). Population total all countries 934,000. Alternate names: CABOVERDIANO. Dialects: SOTAVENTO, BARLAVENTO. Classification: Creole, Portuguese based.
More information.

PORTUGUESE [POR] Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Italo-Western, Western, Gallo-Iberian, Ibero-Romance, West Iberian, Portuguese-Galician.
More information.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ethnologue: Web | Ethnologue: Print | Bibliography | Publications Catalog | LinguaLinks | Tools
Who we are | Shopping cart | Site search | Site map | Home

URL: http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country. ... de+Islands
Bibliography database last modified: November-2003

[metalgina]

I'm commenting on the APOD image posted 1/22/05:

The blurb says it may be the sun, but it looks more like the MOON, especially since there are 12 segments surrounding it. The writing looks similar to the kind of writing around in the 1700's (the "s"'s back then looked like un-crossed, lower case "f"'s) and at first glance seems like some sort of latin language. It looks like some kind of horoscope to me...

[Guest]

http://www.sil.org/computing/catalog/sh ... &name=Font

[Woody NaDobhar]

My first impression (assuming, for a moment, it's not a hoax or in some other way random) is that it seems to follow all the rules of what modern occultists would call a 'Book of Shadows'. That is, a book of times and recipes used by practitioners of hedge magic.

By tradition, such books are written in a sort of proprietary language...highly symbolic, 'low' (informal) vocabulary one would hear from the peasantry, usually with a custom alphabet.

The plants are obviously not real, but suggest a sort of botanical chimera. Assuming the text for each page is related to the chimera, one could suppose the 'plant' is more of an ingrediant list to accompany textual instructions or use guide. Many of the plant parts tend towards the generic (most stems, and a number of the roots), suggesting a lack of importance...maybe there are no stems in that recipe?

A curious aspect of the plants...some of them seem to have roots or stems that grow appart and together in a fairly non-sensical way. A number of these instances suggest a sort of 'Georgia O'Keefe' thing going on.

The wheels are, for the most part, obviously time indicators. Note that quite a few actually have more than 12 radii, tho. There are a number of circles that don't seem to make any correlation to a calendar. I'm particularly intrested in this one:



As for the text having a clue to how to translate it, I doubt it. If it is a proprietary language used by a tradition of hedge magic, there won't be any clues anywhere...wouldn't be a very good secret if there was a key ;)

[markscosmiclight]

Online discussion of the ancient Voynich Astronomical Manuscript

Fascinating! As a recent university adjunct astronomy teacher in Portland Oregon, I realize that we have so much undiscovered and documented history of our world and universe. *Did anyone see the Tuesday Jan 18th NY Times Science Section pg D3 "Visions of Ancient Night Sky Were Hiding in Plain Sight for Centuries" - Discovery of the Zeuss marble sculpture holding the globe of the sky with ecliptic and lines of latitude realized by the Greeks 100 years before Christ!?

I hope to see more discussions on this Voynich piece. Am I seeing all the discussions? I only see one post here???

please advise, thanks,

-Mark Seibold

What is the strange astronomical Voynich manuscript? This manuscript was discussed on the 2002 August 26 APOD and the 2005 January 22 APOD respectively found here: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020826.html , http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/ap050122.html .

Any insight involving what the manuscript says, which culture wrote it, or even when it was written could be a breakthrough in this stalled historical field.

My hope is that the broad international collective experience and proven intelligence of the diverse APOD readership will be able to uncover some previously overlooked clue. Please feel free to post your thoughts!

- RJN

[Guest]

Linguistic Lineage for PORTUGUESE
Indo-European (443)
Italic (48)
Romance (47)
Italo-Western (38)
Western (32)
Gallo-Iberian (30)
Ibero-Romance (17)
West Iberian (10)
Portuguese-Galician (3)
PORTUGUESE [POR] (Portugal)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- lunch time

Ethnologue: Web | Ethnologue: Print | Bibliography | Publications Catalog | LinguaLinks | Tools
Who we are | Shopping cart | Site search | Site map | Home

URL: http://www.ethnologue.com/show_lang_family.asp?code=POR
Bibliography database last modified: November-2003
Publications catalog database last modified: December-2004
Ethnologue data from Ethnologue: Languages of the World, 14th Edition
Copyright © 2001?2005 SIL International
Contact us
















ETHNOLOGUE
ETHNOLOGUE
ETHNOLOGUE
BIBLIOGRAPHY
BIBLIOGRAPHY
BIBLIOGRAPHY
PUBLICATIONS CATALOG
PUBLICATIONS CATALOG
PUBLICATIONS CATALOG
LINGUALINKS
LINGUALINKS
LINGUALINKS
TOOLS
TOOLS
TOOLS
WHO WE ARE
WHO WE ARE
WHO WE ARE
SHOPPING CART
SHOPPING CART
SHOPPING CART

Web version
Web version
Web version

CD ROM and print version
CD ROM and print version
CD ROM and print version

Overview
Overview
Overview

Browse
Browse
Browse

Search the Ethnologue
Search the Ethnologue
Search the Ethnologue

Feedback & FAQs
Feedback & FAQs
Feedback & FAQs

Preface to the Web Version
Preface to the Web Version
Preface to the Web Version

Introduction to the Printed Version
Introduction to the Printed Version
Introduction to the Printed Version

Abbreviations
Abbreviations
Abbreviations

Bibliography of Ethnologue Data Sources
Bibliography of Ethnologue Data Sources
Bibliography of Ethnologue Data Sources

Geographic Distribution of Living Languages, 2000
Geographic Distribution of Living Languages, 2000
Geographic Distribution of Living Languages, 2000

Languages of Special Interest
Languages of Special Interest
Languages of Special Interest

Links of Interest
Links of Interest
Links of Interest

Nearly Extinct Languages
Nearly Extinct Languages
Nearly Extinct Languages

Policies
Policies
Policies

Questionnaires
Questionnaires
Questionnaires

Terms of Use
Terms of Use
Terms of Use

Privacy Policy
Privacy Policy
Privacy Policy

External Links Disclaimer
External Links Disclaimer
External Links Disclaimer

Country Index
Country Index
Country Index

Language Codes
Language Codes
Language Codes

Language Families
Language Families
Language Families

Language Names
Language Names
Language Names

Overview
Overview
Overview

Browse
Browse
Browse

Search the Bibliography
Search the Bibliography
Search the Bibliography

Authors
Authors
Authors

Countries
Countries
Countries

Serials
Serials
Serials

Subjects
Subjects
Subjects

Browse
Browse
Browse

New Publications
New Publications
New Publications

Serial Publications and Journals
Serial Publications and Journals
Serial Publications and Journals

On-line Publications
On-line Publications
On-line Publications

Search Publications Catalog
Search Publications Catalog
Search Publications Catalog

Contact the International Academic Bookstore
Contact the International Academic Bookstore
Contact the International Academic Bookstore

Authors
Authors
Authors

Categories
Categories
Categories

Titles
Titles
Titles

Overview
Overview
Overview

LinguaLinks Library
LinguaLinks Library
LinguaLinks Library

LinguaLinks Workshops
LinguaLinks Workshops
LinguaLinks Workshops

LinguaLinks Tech Support and Training
LinguaLinks Tech Support and Training
LinguaLinks Tech Support and Training

Catalog of Whole-Text Works
Catalog of Whole-Text Works
Catalog of Whole-Text Works

Complete Subject Index
Complete Subject Index
Complete Subject Index

Overview
Overview
Overview

SIL Language Software
SIL Language Software
SIL Language Software

Other software (SIL Software Catalog)
Other software (SIL Software Catalog)
Other software (SIL Software Catalog)

SIL Software Technical Support and Training
SIL Software Technical Support and Training
SIL Software Technical Support and Training

SIL Fonts
SIL Fonts
SIL Fonts

Overview
Overview
Overview

Policies
Policies
Policies

Contact Us
Contact Us
Contact Us

Terms of Use
Terms of Use
Terms of Use

Privacy Policy
Privacy Policy
Privacy Policy

External Links Disclaimer
External Links Disclaimer
External Links Disclaimer

[D'n]

[here] "Balwuakan iditox monicasto plotonsa, mechanos iverisot beht hem saj concenvox. To mi mar meca sot be hevlos mi chora sox, sox abros boster beta, btor sma risa to sare. Colors thesi aths aieh vorisotsic para; abre sieng demora osotix baren."

dubious, if you transpose all the "e"'s and "o"'s, and the "i"'s and "s"... it's STILL gibberish. Maybe, the Manuscript was written by the Gibbers?

Seriously...

[here] A start to understanding the Voynich manuscript would be to do an analyses of the paper and ink. Carbon dating could give a close date. By comparing the paper and ink to those used in different times and places, a close date and place should be easy to find.

.. and...

[here] Has anyone actually done a test on the paper and ink used in this? This would be very helpful in determining a whole host of things, such as the fibers in the paper showing where the pulp came from, or, if done on some other medium, the physical clues would go a long way towards determination of its physical origin.

I very much concur with sj & moodman - let's look at the physical evidence, even if the inks from the "two" authors match. That will give us a location and time. I'm sure there are manuscript dating techniques that can place an ink or a vellum within 50 years, within 50 miles, no? Or at least rule out things, like it was Rudolph's own mad creation, or such.

I'm also leaning towards the calendar theory, though perhaps not for planting as much as some obscure fertility rite. Or, maybe, a 15th century Viagra?

[Guest]

Try looking at the text in a mirror

[llharmon]

My first question would be: What is the actual age? Can we determine?

[Frodo]

It obviously is an ancient form of elvish

[smurph]

This particular picture/chart looks like an Astrology Chart. Each 3-part section contains three colors- maroon, blue and beige, and can easily represent an astrological sign. Counting the three colors as one sign, there are exactly 12 signs (zodiac signs) Branching off from the 3-section sign are other segments that can easily represent houses, cusps, trines, etc. as explained in Astrology. This is just my opinion, and I'm not well-versed in Astrology. However, it seems to be well known that BCE and BC astrologers were sometimes associated with astronomers and visa versa.

[Rick]

This is obviosly written by someone who came from another planet. The constelations are from another perspective,even the species of plant is not found on earth. The pinwheel drawing looks like the hovercraft toy , "Vectron Ultimate" that I purchased at a science store recently.

[Guest]

http://muweb.millersville.edu/~columbus ... RRIN01.ART