APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
Post Reply
User avatar
APOD Robot
Otto Posterman
Posts: 5592
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:27 am
Contact:

APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by APOD Robot » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:06 am

Image M16: Pillars of Star Creation

Explanation: These dark pillars may look destructive, but they are creating stars. This pillar-capturing image of the inside of the Eagle Nebula, taken with the Hubble Space Telescope in 1995, shows evaporating gaseous globules (EGGs) emerging from pillars of molecular hydrogen gas and dust. The giant pillars are light years in length and are so dense that interior gas contracts gravitationally to form stars. At each pillars' end, the intense radiation of bright young stars causes low density material to boil away, leaving stellar nurseries of dense EGGs exposed. The Eagle Nebula, associated with the open star cluster M16, lies about 7000 light years away. The pillars of creation have been imaged more recently in infrared light by Hubble, NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope, and ESA's Herschel Space Observatory -- showing new detail.

<< Previous APOD This Day in APOD Next APOD >>

User avatar
XgeoX
Science Officer
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:57 pm
AKA: Uncle Rico

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by XgeoX » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:06 am

The iconic image of the Hubble era, I can’t help but wonder what will be the image of the upcoming Webb era?
Ego vigilate
Ego audire

heehaw

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by heehaw » Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:28 am

We see the pillars because of dust. The interstellar medium is 95% or more gas, not dust. The gas is almost all hydrogen atoms or hydrogen molecules. Or, ionized hydrogen: protons and electrons. When the universe recombined after the big bang, ALL the hydrogen in the universe was neutral. But today 99% of the hydrogen in the universe is ionized. What caused that ionization? The only source of ionizing radiation that we know of is the hottest stars. Can you believe that they accomplished that? This picture is showing us that stars can't even do it for our own galaxy. Hmmmm!

User avatar
orin stepanek
Plutopian
Posts: 8200
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by orin stepanek » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:54 pm

pillars8_hst_960.jpg

Awesome! Makes one wonder where all the gas and dust come from! :shock: Beautiful though! 8-)
Orin

Smile today; tomorrow's another day!

Tszabeau

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by Tszabeau » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:37 pm

Being the resident asker of dumb questions compels me to ask. What’s the “pink donut” left of center, just above the large spiky star?

CuriousChimp
Ensign
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:37 pm
AKA: "Get off of our planet!"

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by CuriousChimp » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:19 pm

Tszabeau wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:37 pm Being the resident asker of dumb questions compels me to ask. What’s the “pink donut” left of center, just above the large spiky star?
Hey, that's my job, friend.

But, to answer the question, the pinkish toroid is a better, larger, safer Ringworld that NASA/JAXA/ESA/JPL forgot to redact when they cut out the other blatantly obvious Alien Structures with that upper-right rectangle bit. It's not sloppy workmanship, it was merely The Team getting tired and making one tiny mistake. It happens. With all of the images NASA and friends have to creatively edit to keep us in the dark it is astonishing that it doesn't happen a lot more; they are, after all, only human.

Many of them. Some of them. The ones employed locally. :)

Merry Christmas and have a nice, happy, peaceful New Year.

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 18599
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:26 pm

Tszabeau wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:37 pm Being the resident asker of dumb questions compels me to ask. What’s the “pink donut” left of center, just above the large spiky star?
As a rule, rings like this in astronomical images are usually artifacts caused by internal reflections in the optical system, commonly off of filter surfaces. Since they are somewhat out of focus point sources, we see the shadow of the secondary mirror in the middle of the telescope aperture.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

User avatar
rstevenson
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Posts: 2705
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by rstevenson » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:32 pm

I’m curious when the common name was changed from “Pillars of Creation” to “Pillars of Star Creation”. Were religious groups complaining?

Rob

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 18599
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:40 pm

rstevenson wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:32 pm I’m curious when the common name was changed from “Pillars of Creation” to “Pillars of Star Creation”. Were religious groups complaining?
On APOD, it seems the shift happened between 2015 and 2016. There's nothing to suggest that the name has changed at NASA or anyplace else I can find. A Google search has the term with "star" added only existing on a couple of APODs and nowhere else.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

E Fish
Science Officer
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:29 pm

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by E Fish » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:53 pm

rstevenson wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:32 pm I’m curious when the common name was changed from “Pillars of Creation” to “Pillars of Star Creation”. Were religious groups complaining?

Rob
In my experience, it's not religious groups that have problems with the idea of creation. :) More seriously, I haven't seen any complaints from anyone. And I'll admit that I didn't even notice the added word. I saw the picture and thought, "Oh! Pillars of Creation!"

Regardless, I love this photo. It's been one of my favorites, and I love seeing the EGGs (Eggs in the Eagle Nebula! Coincidence? Read the book.). I downloaded a high resolution version of this once and zoomed in as far as I could and just enjoyed taking in all the details, the places where star formation is happening, the patterns in the gas and dust. It's beautiful.

De58te
Commander
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by De58te » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:54 pm

Regarding the said pink donut. It does appear to be a glitch. If you click on the Pillars of Creation link in the last sentence, it takes you to a video from HubbleESA that zooms in to the Pillars. Pausing the video when it gets to the same size as this Apod, you can't see the donut at all. It is missing and also missing is the vertical spike or halo whatever they are called of the large star in question, although the diagonal spikes are still there. I imagine perhaps the ESA images are a newer image than the NASA version.

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 18599
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:11 pm

De58te wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:54 pm Regarding the said pink donut. It does appear to be a glitch. If you click on the Pillars of Creation link in the last sentence, it takes you to a video from HubbleESA that zooms in to the Pillars. Pausing the video when it gets to the same size as this Apod, you can't see the donut at all. It is missing and also missing is the vertical spike or halo whatever they are called of the large star in question, although the diagonal spikes are still there. I imagine perhaps the ESA images are a newer image than the NASA version.
This target has been imaged several times by the HST. We're seeing the earliest here, with an old camera and less developed processing tools and processing skills. The vertical spike is caused by blooming in the CCD. For science images, they are ignored. For aesthetic images they are commonly removed using manual techniques like cloning.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 18805
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by neufer » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:23 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:40 pm
rstevenson wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:32 pm
I’m curious when the common name was changed from “Pillars of Creation” to “Pillars of Star Creation”. Were religious groups complaining?
On APOD, it seems the shift happened between 2015 and 2016. There's nothing to suggest that the name has changed at NASA or anyplace else I can find. A Google search has the term with "star" added only existing on a couple of APODs and nowhere else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Creation#Name wrote:
<<Pillars of Creation is a photograph taken by the Hubble Space Telescope of elephant trunks of interstellar gas and dust in the Eagle Nebula, specifically the Serpens constellation, some 6,500–7,000 light years from Earth. The pillar structure of the region resembles that of a much larger star formation region in the Soul Nebula of Cassiopeia, imaged with the Spitzer Space Telescope in 2005 and characterized as "Pillars of Star Creation".[Nemiroff, R.; Bonnell, J., eds. (16 September 2008). "W5: Pillars of Star Creation". Astronomy Picture of the Day. NASA.] or "Pillars of Star Formation" [Nemiroff, R.; Bonnell, J., eds. (20 November 2011). "W5: Pillars of Star Formation". Astronomy Picture of the Day. NASA.]. They are so named because the gas and dust are in the process of creating new stars, while also being eroded by the light from nearby stars that have recently formed.

The "Pillars of Creation" name is based on a phrase used
by Charles Spurgeon in his sermon "The Condescension of Christ":
  • In calling the Hubble's spectacular new image of the Eagle Nebula the Pillars of Creation, NASA scientists were tapping a rich symbolic tradition with centuries of meaning, bringing it into the modern age. As much as we associate pillars with the classical temples of Greece and Rome, the concept of the pillars of creation – the very foundations that hold up the world and all that is in it – reverberates significantly in the Christian tradition. When William Jennings Bryan published The World's Famous Orations in 1906, he included an 1857 sermon by London pastor Charles Haddon Spurgeon titled "The Condescension of Christ". In it, Spurgeon uses the phrase to convey not only the physical world but also the force that keeps it all together, emanating from the divine: "And now wonder, ye angels," Spurgeon says of the birth of Christ, "the Infinite has become an infant; he, upon whose shoulders the universe doth hang, hangs at his mother's breast; He who created all things, and bears up the pillars of creation, hath now become so weak, that He must be carried by a woman!">>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Spurgeon wrote:
<<Charles Haddon Spurgeon (19 June 1834 – 31 January 1892) was an English Particular Baptist preacher. Spurgeon remains highly influential among Christians of various denominations, among whom he is known as the "Prince of Preachers". He was a strong figure in the Reformed Baptist tradition, defending the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, and opposing the liberal and pragmatic theological tendencies in the Church of his day.

Spurgeon strongly opposed the owning of slaves. He lost support from the Southern Baptists, sales of his sermons dropped to a few, and he received scores of threatening and insulting letters as a consequence.
  • Not so very long ago our nation tolerated slavery in our colonies. Philanthropists endeavored to destroy slavery; but when was it utterly abolished? It was when Wilberforce roused the church of God, and when the church of God addressed herself to the conflict, then she tore the evil thing to pieces. I have been amused with what Wilberforce said the day after they passed the Act of Emancipation. He merrily said to a friend when it was all done, "Is there not something else we can abolish?" That was said playfully, but it shows the spirit of the church of God. She lives in conflict and victory; her mission is to destroy everything that is bad in the land. The Best Warcry, March 4th, 1883'
In a letter to the Christian Watchman and Reflector (Boston), Spurgeon declared:
  • I do from my inmost soul detest slavery . . . and although I commune at the Lord's table with men of all creeds, yet with a slave-holder I have no fellowship of any sort or kind. Whenever [a slave-holder] has called upon me, I have considered it my duty to express my detestation of his wickedness, and I would as soon think of receiving a murderer into my church . . . as a man stealer.
>>
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 18599
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA
Contact:

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:37 pm

neufer wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:23 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:40 pm
rstevenson wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:32 pm
I’m curious when the common name was changed from “Pillars of Creation” to “Pillars of Star Creation”. Were religious groups complaining?
On APOD, it seems the shift happened between 2015 and 2016. There's nothing to suggest that the name has changed at NASA or anyplace else I can find. A Google search has the term with "star" added only existing on a couple of APODs and nowhere else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Creation#Name wrote:
The "Pillars of Creation" name is based on a phrase used
by Charles Spurgeon in his sermon "The Condescension of Christ":
  • In calling the Hubble's spectacular new image of the Eagle Nebula the Pillars of Creation, NASA scientists were tapping a rich symbolic tradition with centuries of meaning, bringing it into the modern age. As much as we associate pillars with the classical temples of Greece and Rome, the concept of the pillars of creation – the very foundations that hold up the world and all that is in it – reverberates significantly in the Christian tradition. When William Jennings Bryan published The World's Famous Orations in 1906, he included an 1857 sermon by London pastor Charles Haddon Spurgeon titled "The Condescension of Christ". In it, Spurgeon uses the phrase to convey not only the physical world but also the force that keeps it all together, emanating from the divine: "And now wonder, ye angels," Spurgeon says of the birth of Christ, "the Infinite has become an infant; he, upon whose shoulders the universe doth hang, hangs at his mother's breast; He who created all things, and bears up the pillars of creation, hath now become so weak, that He must be carried by a woman!">>

I don't actually find much to make me very confident that the name that the scientists chose is from Spurgeon's words.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

classicana
Asternaut
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:26 am

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by classicana » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:47 pm

Do we not revisit art galleries? Can we visit the Smithsonian museum(s) too often? Bring on the repeats!
I'm quite sure I saw this in the late 1990s, and again at the end of 2019 or early 2020... I'll be happy to
enjoy it again sometime in the next few years.

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 3232
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by johnnydeep » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:50 pm

E Fish wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:53 pm
rstevenson wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:32 pm I’m curious when the common name was changed from “Pillars of Creation” to “Pillars of Star Creation”. Were religious groups complaining?

Rob
In my experience, it's not religious groups that have problems with the idea of creation. :) More seriously, I haven't seen any complaints from anyone. And I'll admit that I didn't even notice the added word. I saw the picture and thought, "Oh! Pillars of Creation!"

Regardless, I love this photo. It's been one of my favorites, and I love seeing the EGGs (Eggs in the Eagle Nebula! Coincidence? Read the book.). I downloaded a high resolution version of this once and zoomed in as far as I could and just enjoyed taking in all the details, the places where star formation is happening, the patterns in the gas and dust. It's beautiful.
"Read the book"? What book? Or did I miss your joke?
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 3232
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by johnnydeep » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:08 pm

Alright, all you spurious claimants to the title of Asker of Stupidest Question, step aside! The true title holder has now arrived!

Where exactly, if I may be so bold, ARE these EGGs that are being referred to? I've circled some that I thought might be them, but I'd hesitate to call any of them "globules" which to me should be roughly spheroidal in shape (well, I suppose the two seemingly disconnected ones are). The rest are just "bulges"

Are All These &quot;EGG&quot;s in the Pillars of Creation?
Are All These "EGG"s in the Pillars of Creation?

Also, where are the stars that are shaping these pillars and EGGs? Behind them or within? Are any such stars visible here or in other images, perhaps using different wavelengths?
Last edited by johnnydeep on Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 18805
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Bilbo: A box without hinges, key, or lid, Yet golden treasure inside is hid.

Post by neufer » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:39 pm

E Fish wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:53 pm
I love seeing the EGGs (Eggs in the Eagle Nebula! Coincidence? Read the book.). I downloaded a high resolution version of this once and zoomed in as far as I could and just enjoyed taking in all the details, the places where star formation is happening, the patterns in the gas and dust. It's beautiful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporating_gaseous_globule wrote:
<<An evaporating gas globule or EGG is a region of hydrogen gas in outer space approximately 100 astronomical units in size, such that gases shaded by it are shielded from ionizing UV rays. Dense areas of gas shielded by an evaporating gas globule can be conducive to the birth of stars.Evaporating gas globules were first conclusively identified via photographs of the Pillars of Creation in the Eagle Nebula taken by the Hubble Space Telescope in 1995.

EGG's are the likely predecessors of new protostars. Inside an EGG the gas and dust are denser than in the surrounding dust cloud. Gravity pulls the cloud even more tightly together as the EGG continues to draw in material from its surroundings. As the cloud density builds up the globule becomes hotter under the weight of the outer layers, a protostar is formed inside the EGG. A protostar may have too little mass to become a star. If so it becomes a brown dwarf. If the protostar has sufficient mass, the density reaches a critical level where the temperature exceeds 10 million kelvin at its center. At this point, a nuclear reaction starts converting hydrogen to helium and releasing large amounts of energy. The protostar then becomes a star and joins the main sequence on the HR diagram. A study of 73 EGGs in the Pillars of Creation (Eagle Nebula) with the Very Large Telescope showed that only 15% of the EGGs show signs of star-formation. The star-formation is not everywhere the same: The largest pillar has a small cluster of these sources at the head of the pillar.>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_egg wrote:
<<The world egg, cosmic egg or mundane egg is a mythological motif found in the cosmogonies of many cultures that is present in proto-Indo-European culture and other cultures and civilizations. Typically, the world egg is a beginning of some sort, and the universe or some primordial being comes into existence by "hatching" from the egg, sometimes lain on the primordial waters of the Earth. Eggs symbolize the unification of two complementary principles (represented by the egg white and the yolk) from which life or existence, in its most fundamental philosophical sense, emerges. The earliest idea of the "cosmic egg" comes from some of the Sanskrit scriptures. The Sanskrit term for it is Brahmanda (ब्रह्माण्ड) which is derived from two words - 'Brahma' (ब्रह्मा) the 'creator god' in Hinduism and 'anda' (अण्ड) meaning 'egg'. The Rig Veda uses a similar name for the source of the universe: Hiranyagarbha (हिरण्यगर्भ) which literally means "golden fetus" or "golden womb" and is associated with the universal source Brahman where the whole of all existence is believed to be supported. The Upanishads elaborate that the Hiranyagarbha floated around in emptiness for a while, and then broke into two halves which formed Dyaus (the Heavens) and Prithvi (Earth). The Rig Veda has a similar coded description of the division of the universe in its early stages.>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Egg wrote:
<<Dragon's Egg is a 1980 hard science fiction novel by Robert L. Forward. In the story, Dragon's Egg is a neutron star with a surface gravity 67 billion times that of Earth, and inhabited by cheela, intelligent creatures the size of a sesame seed who live, think and develop a million times faster than humans. Most of the novel, from May to June 2050, chronicles the cheela civilization beginning with its discovery of agriculture to advanced technology and its first face-to-face contact with humans, who are observing the hyper-rapid evolution of the cheela civilization from orbit around Dragon's Egg. The novel is regarded as a landmark in hard science fiction. As is typical of the genre, Dragon's Egg attempts to communicate unfamiliar ideas and imaginative scenes while giving adequate attention to the known scientific principles involved.>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EG%26G wrote:
<<In 1931, MIT professor Harold Edgerton (a pioneer of high-speed photography) partnered with his graduate student Kenneth Germeshausen to found a small technical consulting firm. EG&G, formally known as Edgerton, Germeshausen, and Grier, Inc., was a United States national defense contractor and provider of management and technical services. The company was involved in contracting services to the United States government during World War II and conducted weapons research and development during the Cold war era (from 1948 and onward).>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Gatsby wrote:
<<The Great Gatsby is a 1925 novel written by American author F. Scott Fitzgerald that follows a cast of characters living in the fictional towns of West Egg and East Egg on prosperous Long Island in the summer of 1922>>
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 18805
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by neufer » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:48 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
johnnydeep wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:08 pm
Alright, all you spurious claimants to the title of Asker of Stupidest Questions, step aside! The true title holder has now arrived!

Where exactly, if I may be so bold, ARE these EGGs that are being referred to? I've circled some that I thought might be them, but I'd hesitate to call any of them "globules" which to me should be roughly spheroidal in shape. All these are just "bulges"

Also, where are the stars that are shaping these pillars and EGGs? Behind them or within? Are any such stars visible here or in other images, perhaps using different wavelengths?
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 3232
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by johnnydeep » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:27 am

neufer wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:48 pm
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
johnnydeep wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:08 pm
Alright, all you spurious claimants to the title of Asker of Stupidest Questions, step aside! The true title holder has now arrived!

Where exactly, if I may be so bold, ARE these EGGs that are being referred to? I've circled some that I thought might be them, but I'd hesitate to call any of them "globules" which to me should be roughly spheroidal in shape. All these are just "bulges"

Also, where are the stars that are shaping these pillars and EGGs? Behind them or within? Are any such stars visible here or in other images, perhaps using different wavelengths?
Thanks - great video! So, the stars shaping the pillars are well out of this particular field of view, off in the direction the pillars are pointing. But the video didn’t mention the EGGs. Still not really appreciating the shape that acronym evokes.
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 18805
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by neufer » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:26 am

johnnydeep wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:27 am
Thanks - great video! So, the stars shaping the pillars are well out of this particular field of view, off in the direction the pillars are pointing.
well..we can all thank Bruce Costa: http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php? ... d4#p308731
  • (I just forgot where I had just seen it.)
johnnydeep wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:27 am
But the video didn’t mention the EGGs. Still not really appreciating the shape that acronym evokes.
But you were able to see the chicken first: http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php? ... 66#p301966
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 3232
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by johnnydeep » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:38 pm

neufer wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:26 am
johnnydeep wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:27 am
Thanks - great video! So, the stars shaping the pillars are well out of this particular field of view, off in the direction the pillars are pointing.
well..we can all thank Bruce Costa: http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php? ... d4#p308731
  • (I just forgot where I had just seen it.)
johnnydeep wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:27 am
But the video didn’t mention the EGGs. Still not really appreciating the shape that acronym evokes.
But you were able to see the chicken first: http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php? ... 66#p301966
Yes, the chicken came before the egg in this case, but there too I failed to be able to "see" it until assisted. EGGs, globules, fingers, elongaged lobes, bulbous protuberances: perhaps they're all the same for all intents and purposes.
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

E Fish
Science Officer
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:29 pm

Re: APOD: M16: Pillars of Star Creation (2020 Dec 06)

Post by E Fish » Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:08 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:50 pm
E Fish wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:53 pm
rstevenson wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:32 pm I’m curious when the common name was changed from “Pillars of Creation” to “Pillars of Star Creation”. Were religious groups complaining?

Rob
In my experience, it's not religious groups that have problems with the idea of creation. :) More seriously, I haven't seen any complaints from anyone. And I'll admit that I didn't even notice the added word. I saw the picture and thought, "Oh! Pillars of Creation!"

Regardless, I love this photo. It's been one of my favorites, and I love seeing the EGGs (Eggs in the Eagle Nebula! Coincidence? Read the book.). I downloaded a high resolution version of this once and zoomed in as far as I could and just enjoyed taking in all the details, the places where star formation is happening, the patterns in the gas and dust. It's beautiful.
"Read the book"? What book? Or did I miss your joke?
Sorry, yes. That was me making a joke or at least a reference to the overly dramatic voiceovers in some news casts. :) I should work on my delivery. :D

E Fish
Science Officer
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:29 pm

Re: Bilbo: A box without hinges, key, or lid, Yet golden treasure inside is hid.

Post by E Fish » Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:12 pm

neufer wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:39 pm
E Fish wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:53 pm
I love seeing the EGGs (Eggs in the Eagle Nebula! Coincidence? Read the book.). I downloaded a high resolution version of this once and zoomed in as far as I could and just enjoyed taking in all the details, the places where star formation is happening, the patterns in the gas and dust. It's beautiful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporating_gaseous_globule wrote:
<<An evaporating gas globule or EGG is a region of hydrogen gas in outer space approximately 100 astronomical units in size, such that gases shaded by it are shielded from ionizing UV rays. Dense areas of gas shielded by an evaporating gas globule can be conducive to the birth of stars.Evaporating gas globules were first conclusively identified via photographs of the Pillars of Creation in the Eagle Nebula taken by the Hubble Space Telescope in 1995.

EGG's are the likely predecessors of new protostars. Inside an EGG the gas and dust are denser than in the surrounding dust cloud. Gravity pulls the cloud even more tightly together as the EGG continues to draw in material from its surroundings. As the cloud density builds up the globule becomes hotter under the weight of the outer layers, a protostar is formed inside the EGG. A protostar may have too little mass to become a star. If so it becomes a brown dwarf. If the protostar has sufficient mass, the density reaches a critical level where the temperature exceeds 10 million kelvin at its center. At this point, a nuclear reaction starts converting hydrogen to helium and releasing large amounts of energy. The protostar then becomes a star and joins the main sequence on the HR diagram. A study of 73 EGGs in the Pillars of Creation (Eagle Nebula) with the Very Large Telescope showed that only 15% of the EGGs show signs of star-formation. The star-formation is not everywhere the same: The largest pillar has a small cluster of these sources at the head of the pillar.>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_egg wrote:
<<The world egg, cosmic egg or mundane egg is a mythological motif found in the cosmogonies of many cultures that is present in proto-Indo-European culture and other cultures and civilizations. Typically, the world egg is a beginning of some sort, and the universe or some primordial being comes into existence by "hatching" from the egg, sometimes lain on the primordial waters of the Earth. Eggs symbolize the unification of two complementary principles (represented by the egg white and the yolk) from which life or existence, in its most fundamental philosophical sense, emerges. The earliest idea of the "cosmic egg" comes from some of the Sanskrit scriptures. The Sanskrit term for it is Brahmanda (ब्रह्माण्ड) which is derived from two words - 'Brahma' (ब्रह्मा) the 'creator god' in Hinduism and 'anda' (अण्ड) meaning 'egg'. The Rig Veda uses a similar name for the source of the universe: Hiranyagarbha (हिरण्यगर्भ) which literally means "golden fetus" or "golden womb" and is associated with the universal source Brahman where the whole of all existence is believed to be supported. The Upanishads elaborate that the Hiranyagarbha floated around in emptiness for a while, and then broke into two halves which formed Dyaus (the Heavens) and Prithvi (Earth). The Rig Veda has a similar coded description of the division of the universe in its early stages.>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Egg wrote:
<<Dragon's Egg is a 1980 hard science fiction novel by Robert L. Forward. In the story, Dragon's Egg is a neutron star with a surface gravity 67 billion times that of Earth, and inhabited by cheela, intelligent creatures the size of a sesame seed who live, think and develop a million times faster than humans. Most of the novel, from May to June 2050, chronicles the cheela civilization beginning with its discovery of agriculture to advanced technology and its first face-to-face contact with humans, who are observing the hyper-rapid evolution of the cheela civilization from orbit around Dragon's Egg. The novel is regarded as a landmark in hard science fiction. As is typical of the genre, Dragon's Egg attempts to communicate unfamiliar ideas and imaginative scenes while giving adequate attention to the known scientific principles involved.>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EG%26G wrote:
<<In 1931, MIT professor Harold Edgerton (a pioneer of high-speed photography) partnered with his graduate student Kenneth Germeshausen to found a small technical consulting firm. EG&G, formally known as Edgerton, Germeshausen, and Grier, Inc., was a United States national defense contractor and provider of management and technical services. The company was involved in contracting services to the United States government during World War II and conducted weapons research and development during the Cold war era (from 1948 and onward).>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Gatsby wrote:
<<The Great Gatsby is a 1925 novel written by American author F. Scott Fitzgerald that follows a cast of characters living in the fictional towns of West Egg and East Egg on prosperous Long Island in the summer of 1922>>
Well, I'm happy to note that I've heard of at least half of your egg references. :mrgreen:

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 18805
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Pillows of Star Deconstruction

Post by neufer » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:22 pm

Art Neuendorffer

Post Reply