APOD: Jelly Donut Shaped Rock Appears on Mars (2014 Jan 29)

[BDanielMayfield]

Two back to back LLOL postings, Anthony and Rob.

But Anthony, you have a history of highlighting the benefits of robotic over manned exploration. A far less expensive approach would be to simply back the rover up, or circle it around so it can find the durn hole the rock came from.

To those in Acemellow’s “its there all along” camp, please consider this short chain of logic:

Explanation: … the rock's unusual light tones surrounding a red interior created interest in its composition -- as well as causing it to be nicknamed Jelly Donut. A subsequent chemical analysis showed the rock has twice the abundance of manganese than any other rock yet examined ...

Note that this rock has already been subjected to chemical analysis.

And from NBC Science:

A closer look at the rock using Opportunity's robotic arm-mounted instruments revealed even more surprises.

Don’t you think they would have found the hole from whence this came when they picked it up???

Bruce

[Nitpicker]

Though the two de-skewed blink comparisons are excellent (and wish I knew how to extract the secrets embedded in Chris's 3D cross-eye before image ... I haven't been able to "see" those since I was a kid).

Do you prefer anaglyphs?

Ha! I just re-trained my eyes and can now "see" your cross-eye images (and anyone else's). Very cool (although the method has a slightly nauseating after-effect, which has nothing to do with the subjects of the photos).

I vaguely recall playing with red/blue glasses almost two decades ago, but I had forgotten (or never learnt) the word "anaglyphs". I will dig up my disused eyepiece filters later, to fashion an effective pair of red/blue glasses. Thanks again.

[ta152h0]

Dust devil delivery system ?

[MarkBour]

I am wondering 2 things.

1. How was a chemical analysis performed on the jelly-donut object ? If one of you can explain that to me I would greatly appreciate it.
2. I wonder why nobody replied to one of the earliest comments in the thread:

   More likely to be a piece of the aging and decaying rover itself?

I think one should consider not just the rover itself. I imagine that a rover landing involves a lot of debris of various materials. And I think that these rovers travel relatively small distances in their travels. So, for example, a piece of styrofoam or parachute or some other such material, having blown in the wind to rest near the rover seems a possibility. Perhaps slim, perhaps not. It may be that ta152h0, posting just above, is thinking along the same lines, at least in part.

[Chris Peterson]

How was a chemical analysis performed on the jelly-donut object ?

I haven't seen any details published yet. But there are a number of instruments that could be used, individually or in combination. These include the cameras and their large filter assortment, and the IR, x-ray, and Mössbauer spectrometers.

I wonder why nobody replied to one of the earliest comments in the thread:

More likely to be a piece of the aging and decaying rover itself?

I think one should consider not just the rover itself. I imagine that a rover landing involves a lot of debris of various materials. And I think that these rovers travel relatively small distances in their travels. So, for example, a piece of styrofoam or parachute or some other such material, having blown in the wind to rest near the rover seems a possibility. Perhaps slim, perhaps not. It may be that ta152h0, posting just above, is thinking along the same lines, at least in part.

Nothing on the rover is decaying like this. The object has already been studied mineralogically to some extent. That it's a natural Martian rock is beyond doubt.

[Nitpicker]

I am wondering 2 things.

1. How was a chemical analysis performed on the jelly-donut object ? If one of you can explain that to me I would greatly appreciate it.
2. I wonder why nobody replied to one of the earliest comments in the thread:

   More likely to be a piece of the aging and decaying rover itself?

I think one should consider not just the rover itself. I imagine that a rover landing involves a lot of debris of various materials. And I think that these rovers travel relatively small distances in their travels. So, for example, a piece of styrofoam or parachute or some other such material, having blown in the wind to rest near the rover seems a possibility. Perhaps slim, perhaps not. It may be that ta152h0, posting just above, is thinking along the same lines, at least in part.

There are details of the scientific instruments aboard Opportunity, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunit ... nstruction

The rock has been analysed by experts and determined to be, first and foremost, a rock. From the "analysis showed" link in the APOD explanation:

It's like nothing we [sic] ever seen before. It's very high in sulfur, very high in magnesium, it has twice as much manganese than anything we've seen on Mars," Squyres said with excitement in last week's Jan. 16 event.

Edit: and Opportunity is more than 20 km away from its landing site.

[Nitpicker]

Damn it, now I'm wondering about the precise chemistry of the lithium ion batteries (LIBs) used by Opportunity, and what kind of chemical reaction one might see on the Martian soil, if the batteries were to leak. It seems there is a wide variety of chemistry across the range of LIBs and some include manganese. And magnesium sulphate appears to be in abundance in Meridiani Planum. Are there any chemists on board the Starship?

[geckzilla]

Are there any chemists on board the Starship?

Chris knows everything but dancing.

[MarkBour]

Thanks, Chris and Nitpicker, for your replies.
They strongly persuade me against the theory that it is a piece of human space junk, debris blown into the region.
In particular, I did not realize that Opportunity was actually 20 km away from its landing site. Way farther than I imagined.

Still, it kind of looks to me like it could be a wadded up piece of this stuff:

NASA image from Wikimedia

(highest resolution of this image here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... A05152.jpg)
more than it looks to me like a martian rock.
(Here's a nice view of Challenger Memorial Station: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... Planum.jpg)

I would not argue with experts, but the link you gave did not show me that the experts said it was definitely a rock. I looked at the wikipedia article you linked. Lots in there. But it seems like Opportunity's instruments are mostly optical instruments. So, I don't know if it is able to poke the thing, pick it up, and weigh it for density, or anything like that.

So, while my theory now seems to me extremely unlikely, I am still wondering what theory of its origin is really able to hold up. Are we thinking Opportunity just happened to kick over a sort of a "geode" (is there a better term), that has a bottom side unlike anything ever yet found on Mars, let alone anything else in the nearby region?

I would probably know that my idea was totally ruled out if I better understood the analysis that produced the statements about the chemical composition of the object, and if it was able to prove that the object was inconsistent with the makeup of any part of the items that landed with the rover.

[MadMan]

Very nice geckzilla!!

[Chris Peterson]

Damn it, now I'm wondering about the precise chemistry of the lithium ion batteries (LIBs) used by Opportunity, and what kind of chemical reaction one might see on the Martian soil, if the batteries were to leak. It seems there is a wide variety of chemistry across the range of LIBs and some include manganese. And magnesium sulphate appears to be in abundance in Meridiani Planum. Are there any chemists on board the Starship?

Here's a useful paper about the batteries and their chemistry.

While Li ion batteries utilize liquid electrolytes, the volume is very low, so there's not a lot to leak. And in the case of the rovers, the batteries are inside the radioisotope heated, insulated warm box, so I think the likelihood of anything from the batteries coming into contact with the martian surface is extremely small.

[Chris Peterson]

Are there any chemists on board the Starship?

Chris knows everything but dancing.

Ha. Sometimes I just know where to go for answers.

And don't forget sports, and popular music from the last 20 years. Two of the Jeopardy categories that really mess me up.

[Strangerbarry]

I put it there. I'm a bit surprised at all the fuss and cafufle over what I thought was a harmless prank, but I'm really enjoying the reaction. I'm think next time I'll leave a picture of Miley Cyrus on the wrecking ball so I can follow the conversation of the scientific community as they debate the anomalies in the elemental analysis.

[Ron-Astro Pharmacist]

It would be interesting if there could be a correlation to the manganese content and manganese nodules found formed in the seabeds here on Earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_nodule

Of course the most fun would be if it turned out to be a manganese-containing sea shell.

[neufer]

I'm a bit surprised at all the fuss and cafufle over what I thought was a harmless prank, but I'm really enjoying the reaction.

KERFUFFLE (chiefly British) : disturbance, fuss; alteration of carfuffle, from Scots car- (probably from Scottish Gaelic cearr wrong, awkward) + fuffle to become disheveled [First Known Use: 1946]

[Ron-Astro Pharmacist]

Is it possible to follow NASA's plan to investigate this finding? I would have liked to see the look on the person's face when the download from the rover came on screen. That look and some quickened pulses has probably been a pretty common occurrence over the last ten years. Good work to all of you. You deserve lots of Kudos!!

[BMAONE23]

Are there any chemists on board the Starship?

Chris knows everything but dancing.

Click to play embedded YouTube video.

[thomas_callahan]

Has this really not been done on this thread yet?

I know where it came from:



Now we've solved the mystery of the appearing rock AND where Elvis has been hiding all this time.

[Nitpicker]

Damn it, now I'm wondering about the precise chemistry of the lithium ion batteries (LIBs) used by Opportunity, and what kind of chemical reaction one might see on the Martian soil, if the batteries were to leak. It seems there is a wide variety of chemistry across the range of LIBs and some include manganese. And magnesium sulphate appears to be in abundance in Meridiani Planum. Are there any chemists on board the Starship?

Here's a useful paper about the batteries and their chemistry.

While Li ion batteries utilize liquid electrolytes, the volume is very low, so there's not a lot to leak. And in the case of the rovers, the batteries are inside the radioisotope heated, insulated warm box, so I think the likelihood of anything from the batteries coming into contact with the martian surface is extremely small.

Thank you. I did actually "read" that, but completely missed the bit about LiPF₆:

This chemistry utilized our first generation low temperature Li-ion battery electrolyte, i.e., 1 M LiPF₆ dissolved in equi-proportion ternary mixture of ethylene carbonate, dimethyl carbonate and diethyl carbonate.

So, no manganese there.

[Walker1001]

It's a Tim Horton's blueberry donut, put there before Dunkin Donuts could get there. The puzzle is how did we Canadians do it?

[Beyond]

It's a Tim Horton's blueberry donut, put there before Dunkin Donuts could get there. The puzzle is how did we Canadians do it?

HINT--->

[rstevenson]

I leave a trail of donut crumbs. So much tastier than bread crumbs.

Rob

[BMAONE23]

Here is a short (3min) video featuring Steve Squyres discussing the Rock from Space.com

[BMAONE23]

Here is an interesting article on the rock in PHYS.ORG containing an image of the likely former resting place partially visible beneath the Rover Solar Array Wing

Click to view full size image

[neufer]

Here is an interesting article on the rock in PHYS.ORG containing an image
of the likely former resting place partially visible beneath the Rover Solar Array Wing

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