How would the night sky look from within the Lagoon Nebula?

[lkstew]

If I were to live on an earth-like planet with a single sun similar to ours but located somewhere in the Lagoon Nebula, how would the night sky look to me? I'd suspect that I would be looking at a very bright sky lighted by massive numbers of stars along with many colorful groups of stars and dust. Would the daytime sky also show some of the brighter stars?

[Chris Peterson]

If I were to live on an earth-like planet with a single sun similar to ours but located somewhere in the Lagoon Nebula, how would the night sky look to me? I'd suspect that I would be looking at a very bright sky lighted by massive numbers of stars along with many colorful groups of stars and dust. Would the daytime sky also show some of the brighter stars?

You'd see no color (except for the desaturated color of some stars), and no gas or dust, except to the extent they might slightly raise the level of the sky background. The proximity of several bright stars would be obvious at night, of course, and a few might be daytime objects, as well, although not bright compared with the planet's own sun.

[lkstew]

Thanks Chris.

Larry

[mjimih]

At night it might look like this?

[Chris Peterson]

At night it might look like this?

Something like that. Just get rid of almost all the color. Make the bright stars closer to pinpoints. Make the sky background a bit lighter. Reduce the number of dim stars.

I'd say the view would be like what we see from Earth at late dusk, but with some very, very bright stars (brighter than Venus appears) peppered around the sky.

[lkstew]

Thanks to mjimh and Chris. I was kind of thinking it would look more like mjimh's clip. Since we're on a wispy arm of the Milky Way, and the Lagoon nebula is right in the midst of the galaxy, the sky would be very much more congested than what we see in this (relatively speaking) scarcely populated arm.

Thanks for the contribution. I hope to hear some additional opinions too.

Larry

[Chris Peterson]

Thanks to mjimh and Chris. I was kind of thinking it would look more like mjimh's clip. Since we're on a wispy arm of the Milky Way, and the Lagoon nebula is right in the midst of the galaxy, the sky would be very much more congested than what we see in this (relatively speaking) scarcely populated arm.

One thing that makes it harder to figure how many stars would be visible is the effect of the surrounding volume of gas and dust. On the one hand, you have more stars in the region. But on the other, you're in a less transparent, higher scattering medium. I'm sure we have enough information to analyze the situation reasonably well, but without doing so, it's hard to say whether we'd see more stars or less from inside the Lagoon.

One thing is certain, however: we'd see no more color or structure than we see from Earth through the eyepiece of a telescope, which isn't much.

[mjimih]

So basically as a Space shuttle astronaut enters space from a planet in the middle of a globular cluster, all he'll notice is far more stars, but with less contrast than he/she's used to seeing from high above the Earth's atmosphere. If there we're no gas clouds in the cluster floating around, would any "brightly" colored stars tend to stand out more? Which otherwise would tamp down on the color and obscure the fainter stars.

[Chris Peterson]

So basically as a Space shuttle astronaut enters space from a planet in the middle of a globular cluster, all he'll notice is far more stars, but with less contrast than he/she's used to seeing from high above the Earth's atmosphere.

I'm not sure the view from above the atmosphere would be all that different. I guess it would depend on how bright the night sky was, and how much atmospheric scattering reduced contrast. An atmosphere like Earth's is very transparent; we lose less than a magnitude in terms of sensitivity. The view of the stars from space isn't much better than it is from any dark, clear location on the surface.

If there we're no gas clouds in the cluster floating around, would any "brightly" colored stars tend to stand out more? Which otherwise would tamp down on the color and obscure the fainter stars.

Very few stars are strongly colored. How we see them isn't going to be affected significantly by local gas or dust. But just as we can't see well into the interior of very dusty regions, I think it's safe to say that anybody in the middle of such a place isn't going to be able to see out. So they won't have very many stars in their sky.

[mjimih]

very interesting. thanks.

[geckzilla]

I guess if we ever did see a lot of color in the sky and it wasn't a nearby aurora, it might involve a lot of the scary kind of energy. Maybe we are better off without the light show.

[Chris Peterson]

I guess if we ever did see a lot of color in the sky and it wasn't a nearby aurora, it might involve a lot of the scary kind of energy. Maybe we are better off without the light show.

I've heard of people exposed to high levels of ionizing radiation perceiving bright colors due to direct stimulation of retinal and visual cortex cells. Briefly.

[geckzilla]

I've only heard of people perceiving bright colors due to acid trips...

[Chris Peterson]

I've only heard of people perceiving bright colors due to acid trips...

I think that usually results in tasting bright colors, and seeing musical notes.

[geckzilla]

All of these things are terribly interesting to me but I have reservations about irreversibly altering my brain with an experiment.

[Chris Peterson]

All of these things are terribly interesting to me but I have reservations about irreversibly altering my brain with an experiment. :lol:

Me too. However, by most accounts, LSD is a very safe drug when taken under controlled conditions. Long term side effects are very rare. Aspirin is probably more dangerous.

[geckzilla]

Aspirin has some undeniably positive side-effects, though. The usefulness of LSD is questionable even though lot of artists swear by it. Oh well, I'm pretty satisfied with the surreal quality most of my dreams have. Wouldn't want to take that for granted. My one gripe is that I turn into a positively horrible driver in my dreams. I'm always crossing traffic and running red lights and never able to apply adequate brake pressure. The consistency of my inability to properly drive a car in my dreams is actually pretty disturbing.

[neufer]

My one gripe is that I turn into a positively horrible driver in my dreams. I'm always crossing traffic and running red lights and never able to apply adequate brake pressure. The consistency of my inability to properly drive a car in my dreams is actually pretty disturbing.

<<To dream that you are driving a vehicle signifies your life's journey and your path in life. The dream is telling of how you are moving and navigating through life. If you are driving and cannot see the road ahead of you, then it indicates that you do not know where you are headed in life and what you really want to do with yourself. You are lacking direction and goals. Similarly, to dream that you are driving at night suggests that you are unsure of where you are headed in life. You are experiencing obstacles toward your goals. Perhaps you do not want to see what is ahead for you or you are afraid to confront certain issues. You may be feeling apprehensive about the future. If your view is blocked or obstructed while you are driving, then it symbolizes your lacking awareness of something in your life. You are overlooking certain aspects in your life. Alternatively, the dream indicates dangers or problems that are not yet made known to you. If you are driving on a curvy road, then it indicates that you are having difficulties in achieving your goals and accepting the changes associated with it. If you are driving in the snow, then it means that you need to be extra cautious about how your approach your goals. Metaphorically, driving a car in your dream is analogous to your sex life and sexual performance. Consider how you are driving and what kind of car you are driving and how it relates to your waking sex life. Or the dream may be a pun on your "drive" or ambition.>>

[geckzilla]

Go home, Art. I don't want to buy your manure today.

[mjimih]

yuuccchh that dreammoods excerpt was a depressing account of otherwise benign dreams imo. I am usually in a school or office building talking to acquaintances when invariably something gets frightful. I then end up in a car that I'm driving, or running on foot to find a way to get away or hide from something that is pursuing me. Different ways of waking up ;can't run fast enough, ;drive into water, or ;become trapped. Luckily they aren't too vivid, and my Psychologist father never cared about "dreams", so I don't either. The brain is too complex to pretend to know why it does things while on automatic repair-mode.
Now if my computer comes out of sleep mode and flashes a message like "Wow that was a weird dream." then I'll get worried!

[lkstew]

Why don't some of the contributors stick to the original question instead of fantasizing about drugs and dreams?

Larry

[mjimih]

the question was basically answered already, earlier in the thread. you can bring it back on track and add more anytime you like I suppose.

[neufer]

Go home, Art. I don't want to buy your manure today.

Click to play embedded YouTube video.

<<Two researchers have postulated that dreams have a biological function, where the content requires no analysis or interpretation, that content providing an automatic stimulation of the body's physiological functions underpinning the human instinctive behavior. So dreams are part of the human, and animal, survival and development strategy.

Professor Antti Revonsuo (2000) has limited his ideas to those of "threat rehearsal," where dreams exercise our primary self-defense instincts.

Keith Stevens extends the theory to all human instincts, including threats to self, threats to family members, pair bonding and reproduction, inquisitiveness and challenges, and the drive for personal superiority and tribal status. He categorizes dreams into nine categories, demonstrating the universal commonality of dream content and instinct rehearsal. It is postulated that the dream function is automatic, in response to the content, exercising and stimulating the body chemistry and neurological activity that would come into play if the scenario occurred in real life, so that the dream does not have to be remembered to achieve its objective. It is argued that, once a dreamer has experienced a threat in a dream (either to self or a family member), his/her ability to confront and overcome a real life threat is then enhanced, so that such dreams, in both humans or animals, are an aid to survival. The threat rehearsal can be specific, for instance, an attack from a savage dog, but it can also be general, in that the threat response physiology is activated and reinforced whilst dreaming.

For human reproduction, the theory states that dreams of pairing, bonding and mating stimulate the reflex to reproduce the species, with an emphasis on dreams that promote the principle of selection; the desire of the individual to find the best mate and to achieve the optimum genetic mixing. In that respect, the dream function conflicts with human values of fidelity and mating for life. Specifically, young women dream often of being pregnant and giving birth, overwhelmingly positive dreams that directly stimulate the urge to reproduce.

Regarding status, dreams about being superior or inferior to others are thought to stimulate the dreamer's determination to improve his status within the immediate human hierarchy, either through the positive physiology of success or the negative physiology of failure. Hence, dreaming is believed to promote competition and the reproductive success of those best suited to the environment.

Finally, other dreams stimulate the determination to explore and inquire, through the extremes of exhilarating dream achievements (positive physiology) or frustrating obstructions and barriers. The latter stimulates a determination not to give up in a quest, so that, in life, the individual and the species move forward. For the dreaming wildebeest, it may be a rich pasture over the hill; for the human dreamer it may be splitting the atom.>>

[Beyond]

It would seem that when it comes to 'splitting' the atom, the dreaming of it, has been taken over by the nightmare of the reality of it.

[neufer]

It would seem that when it comes to 'splitting' the atom, the dreaming of it,
has been taken over by the nightmare of the reality of it.

The same applies for the rich pasture over the hill (all coVERED with gneu manure).