Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

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Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by Ann » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:03 pm

Margarita wrote:
Have you any idea about WHY they were first ever called BROWN dwarfs?
That's a big question, and my answer will be rambling, musing, and speculative. The short answer, however, is that blue stars have historically been called white, white stars have been called yellow, and yellow stars have been called red. When truly red stars were discovered, namely the brown dwarfs, astronomers found that they had run out of suitable color designations. The little lithium-fusing runts couldn't be called "red dwarfs" since that name had already been claimed for stars like Proxima Centauri. But since the color brown can be described as a murky shade of red, the designation "brown dwarf" was chosen for these tiny little red embers.

A more interesting question, of course, is why the blue (or blue-white) stars (such as Vega) were never recognized as blue, but were called white instead. And why do most people consider it a universal truth that our white Sun is yellow? And why do people insist on calling Betelgeuse red, even though it is obvious that it is really yellow-orange?

Let's start with the Sun. It is clear that the Sun is yellower in color than the blue sky around it, so it is really no wonder that the Sun has been described as yellow. To me, however, it is very interesting that people seem to be more baffled by the blue color of the sky than by the yellow color of the Sun. When I googled "Why is the sky blue?", I got 311 000 hits, but when I googled "Why is the sun yellow?", I got "only" 77 100 hits. People seem willing to accept that the Sun is yellow without asking many questions about it, but the blue color of the sky seems to be a considerably greater mystery. In reality, much of the blue light of the Sun is scattered by the Earth's atmosphere, making the sky look blue. For the same reason, since much of the blue light of the Sun is "scattered away from it" by the atmosphere, our white Sun looks yellow from the Earth.

So our white Sun has been accepted, even by scientists, as a yellow star, and the Sun is officially designated a "yellow dwarf". The Sun is called a "dwarf" because it fuses hydrogen to helium in its core, and it is called yellow because... well, because it has always been regarded as yellow.

What about the blue-white stars, then? The sky is full of them. Consider the Big Dipper, for example, where six out of seven stars can be described as blue-white. Consider Orion, where six of the seven brightest stars are blue-white, and most of the slightly fainter stars are blue-white, too. Consider the conspicuous Summer Triangle, made up of Vega, Deneb and Altair, which can all be described as blue-white stars. And Sirius, the seemingly brightest star of them all (apart from the Sun) sparkles and glitters in many colors like a crystal chandelier, but its dominant color is clearly blue-white. Out of the twenty-five visually brightest stars in the sky (apart from the Sun), fifteen belong to spectral classes A and B and are blue-white. The blue-white diamonds dominate the sky.

Yes, but their bluish color is diluted and almost white, so it is hard to spot. And the fact that these blue stars dominate the heavens means that their color doesn't stand out. But there are five other stars whose colors really make them standouts. These five stars are Betelgeuse, Antares, Aldebaran and Arcturus (and Gamma Crucis, which can't be seen from the northern hemisphere). These stars are so very much yellower than all the blue-white luminaries around them that humanity has "always" found them interesting because of their color. It is no wonder that they have been called red.

Personally I do think it is almost an insult that Vega has been "defined" as the perfectly white star, because Vega is really a strikingly blue star to me! When I belonged to an astronomy club whose members used to do quite a bit of observing, we - that is, I - liked to show our visitors Vega through our biggest telescope, and then I asked them what color they thought it was. Everyone said that Vega was blue.

Vega also has the kind of spectrum that peaks in the ultraviolet, so it is quite clear that it emits more short-wave than long-wave light. Even so, it has been "defined" as the ultimate example of a white star. I find it, as I said, slightly insulting. The only reason I can find for it is that astronomers have traditionally regarded it as "impossible" for stars to be blue, in the same way as people have regarded it as "nearly impossible" and therefore really strange that the Earth's sky is blue. I think, in other words, that astronomers have traditionally approached the concept of stellar colors with the preconceived notion that stars must be either white, yellow or red. And since Vega is the bluest-looking of all the stars in the northern hemisphere (or so I think anyway), its very blueness was the reason why it was "defined" as the whitest of all stars.

So, in short, the designation "red stars" was given to yellow-orange giants like Betelgeuse and Antares and later to yellow-orange dwarfs like Proxima Centauri. When astronomers found some truly red stars, they had to come up with another "color designation" for them.

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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by MargaritaMc » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:20 pm

celebrating_smiley.gif
Gosh Ann! You answered all my follow-up questions before I had asked them!

Thank you very much.

Errr. But I've just thought of something else that you might be able to explain...

I've just been reading Jim Kaler ( http://stars.astro.illinois.edu/sow/sunstar.html )and he says
The effect of temperature is more subtly seen through star colors. Cool stars appear reddish. As the temperature rises, we march through the spectrum toward shorter and more energetic wavelengths, from red to orange, yellow, white (substituting for green),then blue.
I know that you have frequently said that there are NO GREEN STARS

But ... WHY??!
Why do we see green in the spectrum but not in stars?? Why does "white substitute for green"? :?:

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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:21 pm

Ann wrote:
Have you any idea about WHY they were first ever called BROWN dwarfs?
That's a big question, and my answer will be rambling, musing, and speculative. The short answer, however, is that blue stars have historically been called white, white stars have been called yellow, and yellow stars have been called red.
The stellar color designation is only loosely related to visual appearance. Color is traditionally defined by a ratio between energy measured through a pair of filters, most often V and B filters. The intent of "color" is to tell us the temperature of the star. More recently, spectroscopic measurements allow this to be determined more accurately than by simple photometry, and that information defines "color".

Vega is called white (sometimes blue-white) because its B-V is zero. Actually, this works out, since Vega is also visually white to most people. The Sun is called yellow because of its 5800 K temperature. Most "yellow" stars produce light that is white to human eyes. Just because a star has its energy peak in the yellow part of the spectrum doesn't mean it will be visually yellow.

The name "brown dwarf" makes sense, since these objects are the coolest stars that still produce visible light. The physiologic color that we perceive when something is heated up just enough to glow is a dark, low-saturation red: in other words, brown.
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by neufer » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:45 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Ann wrote:
Have you any idea about WHY they were first ever called BROWN dwarfs?
That's a big question, and my answer will be rambling, musing, and speculative. The short answer, however, is that blue stars have historically been called white, white stars have been called yellow, and yellow stars have been called red. When truly red stars were discovered, namely the brown dwarfs, astronomers found that they had run out of suitable color designations. The little lithium-fusing runts couldn't be called "red dwarfs" since that name had already been claimed for stars like Proxima Centauri. But since the color brown can be described as a murky shade of red, the designation "brown dwarf" was chosen for these tiny little red embers.
The stellar color designation is only loosely related to visual appearance...The name "brown dwarf" makes sense, since these objects are the coolest stars that still produce visible light. The physiologic color that we perceive when something is heated up just enough to glow is a dark, low-saturation red: in other words, brown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brownies wrote:
Image
<<Not unlike fairies and goblins, Brownies are imaginary little sprites, who are supposed to delight in harmless pranks and helpful deeds. Never allowing themselves to be seen by mortal eyes, they are male, drawn to represent many professions and nationalities, all mischievous members of the fairy world whose principal attribute is helping with chores while a family sleeps.

The first appearances of Brownie characters in a print publication took place in 1879, but not until the February, 1881 issue of Wide Awake magazine were the creatures printed in their final form. The first proper story, The Brownies' Ride, appeared in the February 1883 issue of the children's periodical St. Nicholas Magazine. Published in 1899, The Brownies Abroad is considered the first Brownie comic strip, though it didn't utilise speech balloons until the publication The Brownie Clown of Brownie Town of 1908. From 1903, The Brownies appeared as a newspaper Sunday strip for several years.

The Brownies is a series of publications by Canadian illustrator and author Palmer Cox, based on names and elements from Celtic mythology and traditional highland Scottish stories told to Cox by his grandmother. The Brownie characters became famous in their day, and at the peak of their popularity were a pioneering name brand within merchandising.>>
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by neufer » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:06 pm

MargaritaMc wrote:
I've just been reading Jim Kaler ( http://stars.astro.illinois.edu/sow/sunstar.html )and he says
The effect of temperature is more subtly seen through star colors. Cool stars appear reddish. As the temperature rises, we march through the spectrum toward shorter and more energetic wavelengths, from red to orange, yellow, white (substituting for green),then blue.
I know that you have frequently said that there are NO GREEN STARS

But ... WHY??!
Why do we see green in the spectrum but not in stars?? Why does "white substitute for green"? :?:
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by MargaritaMc » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:15 pm

Black body radiation always produces multiple primary colors
but we perceive them only as: Blue White, White,
Yellow, Orange, Red, or dark Red (i.e., brown).
Green is not an option.
But Why?. What is it that causes this?
M
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:16 pm

MargaritaMc wrote:I know that you have frequently said that there are NO GREEN STARS

But ... WHY??!
Why do we see green in the spectrum but not in stars?? Why does "white substitute for green"? :?:
The diagram provided by Art gives some of the answer, but may not be very intuitive. Have a look at the little applet here. This lets you change the blackbody temperature, and see both the actual spectrum produced, as well as the apparent color. Note that a temperature around 5300 K results in the peak energy being in the green, but also lots of energy at other wavelengths, the result of which produces something very close to white. The shape of the blackbody curve- steep on the short wavelength side, shallow on the long, is why there is a color asymmetry. Hot bodies can show saturated red (as well as darker, unsaturated reds such as brown), but as the temperature rises we successively move through less saturated orange, yellow, and then white. You can't get blue, either, which is why there are no truly blue stars. Very hot stars have just enough asymmetry in their spectrum to produce a slight blue shift to what is otherwise white. You'll never see a saturated blue star, except in a photograph (where color response is very different from the eye).
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by MargaritaMc » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:14 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
MargaritaMc wrote:I know that you have frequently said that there are NO GREEN STARS

But ... WHY??!
Why do we see green in the spectrum but not in stars?? Why does "white substitute for green"? :?:
The diagram provided by Art gives some of the answer, but may not be very intuitive. Have a look at the little applet here. This lets you change the blackbody temperature, and see both the actual spectrum produced, as well as the apparent color. Note that a temperature around 5300 K results in the peak energy being in the green, but also lots of energy at other wavelengths, the result of which produces something very close to white. The shape of the blackbody curve- steep on the short wavelength side, shallow on the long, is why there is a color asymmetry. Hot bodies can show saturated red (as well as darker, unsaturated reds such as brown), but as the temperature rises we successively move through less saturated orange, yellow, and then white. You can't get blue, either, which is why there are no truly blue stars. Very hot stars have just enough asymmetry in their spectrum to produce a slight blue shift to what is otherwise white. You'll never see a saturated blue star, except in a photograph (where color response is very different from the eye).
Thank you very much indeed, Chris - that was SO helpful! The app together with your explanation provided that marvellous "Ah HA!" moment, when suddenly something that was confused and fuzzy becomes clear. You are an excellent teacher. :clap: :clap:
Take a bow!
Margarita
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by neufer » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:22 pm

Image
MargaritaMc wrote:
Thank you very much indeed, Chris - that was SO helpful! The app together with your explanation provided that marvellous "Ah HA!" moment, when suddenly something that was confused and fuzzy becomes clear. You are an excellent teacher. :clap: :clap:

Take a bow!
Margarita
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by MargaritaMc » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:44 pm

neufer wrote:
Image
MargaritaMc wrote:
Thank you very much indeed, Chris - that was SO helpful! The app together with your explanation provided that marvellous "Ah HA!" moment, when suddenly something that was confused and fuzzy becomes clear. You are an excellent teacher. :clap:  :clap:

Take a bow!
Margarita
And now that I've watched the simulation that Chris told me about, I can see what YOU, Art, were saying. So
Image
to you as well!
M
"In those rare moments of total quiet with a dark sky, I again feel the awe that struck me as a child. The feeling is utterly overwhelming as my mind races out across the stars. I feel peaceful and serene."
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by Ann » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:24 am

Chris wrote:
The stellar color designation is only loosely related to visual appearance. Color is traditionally defined by a ratio between energy measured through a pair of filters, most often V and B filters. The intent of "color" is to tell us the temperature of the star. More recently, spectroscopic measurements allow this to be determined more accurately than by simple photometry, and that information defines "color".

Vega is called white (sometimes blue-white) because its B-V is zero.
Yes, the B-V index of Vega is zero, but that is a fact that I find very baffling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBV_system wrote:
The filters are selected so that the mean wavelengths of response functions are 364 nm for U, 442 nm for B, 540 nm for V.


It is clear from the diagram at left that a star of spectral class A6 typically emits more light at 442 nm than at 540 nm. Vega is of spectral class A0 and will emit proportionally even more 442 nm light than 540 nm light. To me, the diagram on the left actually proves that the B-V index of Vega shouldn't be zero.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBV_system wrote:
The zero point of the B-V and U-B color indices was defined to be zero for A0 V stars not affected by interstellar reddening.
So I'm going to insist that I am right about this. The B-V index of Vega is zero because it was defined to be zero, not because Vega actually emits an equal amount of blue and yellow-green light. And the best explanation for why Vega was defined as having a B-V index of zero is, or so I think anyway, that a B-V index of zero strongly suggests a white color, and astronomers have traditionally regarded stars as either white, yellow or red. Vega was the star that looked most non-red and non-yellow to the naked eye, particularly if you had made up your mind that it couldn't be blue, and therefore it was defined as the ultimate example of stellar whiteness.

An aside here: why does Vega look bluer than all other blue-white stars in the heavens, as I think it does? I'd say that the best explanation is brightness. Only Sirius is visually brighter than Vega of all the blue-white stars in the sky, but from my latitude Sirius is often low in the sky and affected by reddening. Vega is usually high in the sky and quite unreddened. Clearly brightness is important for bringing out the blue color of Vega. I, too, think that Vega looks mostly white when I look at it without optical aid, but through a telescope its blue-white color just jumps out at me. To find out if other people agreed with me, I showed Vega through a telescope to a lot of people and asked them what color they thought it was. Everyone said it was blue.

Interestingly, Vega actually looks bluer to us than it really is. Vega is a fast-rotating star which bulges in the middle. At the equator, Vega's hot interior is dampened by cooler layers of gas, but at the poles we see quite deep into its "searing, blazing blueness". We actually see Vega pole-on, so we see the hottest, bluest aspect of it.

As for why we never see any stars as green, well, the Sun is as good an example of a green star as we are likely to find. But we don't see it as green, since that would be very unhelpful for our survival - or to put it differently, evolution has ensured that we don't see the Sun as green. Someone who is no longer active here at Starship Asterisk - Henning Makholm? - pointed out that the color green has been critically important for the survival of humanity, since green showed us the presence of vegetation and therefore water. The green color of plants strongly stimulates the green-sensitive cones in our retinas, but the red- or blue-sensitive cones hardly at all. And that is what we need to see something as green, something that strongly stimulates the green cones in our eyes but not the red and blue cones much at all. Clearly the Sun doesn't qualify. Instead we see this incomparably brightest source of light in our lives as white in color, because it would look white if you could "put the blue light of the Earth's sky back into the Sun again". That way the sky would be black, but the Sun would be unbearably brilliantly white - the way it is on the Moon.

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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:25 am

Ann wrote:Yes, the B-V index of Vega is zero, but that is a fact that I find very baffling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBV_system wrote:
The filters are selected so that the mean wavelengths of response functions are 364 nm for U, 442 nm for B, 540 nm for V.
Keep in mind that those are the center wavelengths, but the actual filters have widths of over 100 nm (they overlap significantly), and the bandpasses are not symmetric. Also, V filters tend to be somewhat more efficient. So the net result is that the measured values for B and V are quite close.
An aside here: why does Vega look bluer than all other blue-white stars in the heavens, as I think it does?
Your sense of perception is distorted from most people's, I'd say. It isn't possible for a body, no matter how hot, to produce blue light. The bluest it can ever be is just an extremely low saturation, slightly blue cast of white. If you're seeing it as intense blue, it's your brain doing that, not your eyes.
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by neufer » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:03 am

Chris Peterson wrote:
Ann wrote:
An aside here: why does Vega look bluer than all other blue-white stars in the heavens, as I think it does?
Your sense of perception is distorted from most people's, I'd say. It isn't possible for a body, no matter how hot, to produce blue light. The bluest it can ever be is just an extremely low saturation, slightly blue cast of white. If you're seeing it as intense blue, it's your brain doing that, not your eyes.
Not Ann's brain... perish the thought :!:
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by Ann » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:26 am

Chris wrote:
It isn't possible for a body, no matter how hot, to produce blue light. The bluest it can ever be is just an extremely low saturation, slightly blue cast of white. If you're seeing it as intense blue, it's your brain doing that, not your eyes.
I'm not seeing Vega as intensely blue. I can tell the difference in saturation between a cornflower and a pale blue sky.

But even a pale blue sky is in a way intensely blue to me, because to me everything that is blue at all stands out. Therefore, when I look at Vega through a telescope, the blue aspect of its blue-white color almost overwhelms me. Of course I can see that even through a telescope, Vega most certainly isn't cornflower blue. But so extremely few stars are really red, either. The absolutely only star I have seen whose color could be described as a saturated shade of red when observed through a telescope is V Aquilae. Mu Cephei, the Garnet Star, was hugely disappointing to me in its telescopic non-redness (it was pale and slightly coppery to me).

So that's why I describe blue-white stars as blue, in the same way as I describe a pale blue sky as blue.

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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:05 pm

Ann wrote:But even a pale blue sky is in a way intensely blue to me, because to me everything that is blue at all stands out.
That's what I meant about it being perceptual. Most people are unable to see Vega as anything but white, even with a telescope. At star parties I've talked about star colors many times. Many people don't even realize that stars are colored, but when I point out specific examples, especially with binoculars or a telescope, they can see it for themselves. But most people only see orange, yellow, and white. Only occasionally do I get somebody who notices the very faint blue cast of the very hot stars like Vega.

You are attuned to blue in a way that differs from most people.
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by neufer » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:15 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Chris Peterson wrote:
Ann wrote:
But even a pale blue sky is in a way intensely blue to me, because to me everything that is blue at all stands out.
You are attuned to blue in a way that differs from most people.
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Eye compared to camera in seeing colours?

Post by MargaritaMc » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:49 pm

Chris wrote ( some posts earlier )
You'll never see a saturated blue star, except in a photograph (where color response is very different from the eye).
I've been thinking about what you said there, Chris, and wonder if you'd have time to say some more about how the perception of colour is different via the eye from via the camera.

A couple of days ago, I was struck by the rich colours of two flowers in my garden - a light pink pelargonium and a deep pink geranium - but when I tried to photograph them the colours through the view-finder looked insipid. I only have the camera on my mobile phone, so that is probably a limiting factor. But the difference still surprised me.

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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by Beyond » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:30 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:You are attuned to blue in a way that differs from most people.
That's why Ann is The Color Commentator Commodore. :yes: :clap:
You might even say that she is a real blue eyed Swede. :lol2:
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Re: Why were "brown dwarfs" called brown?

Post by Ann » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:45 pm

I know I should let this thread die a peaceful death now, but there is one thing I still can't let go...
Chris wrote:
Keep in mind that those are the center wavelengths, but the actual filters have widths of over 100 nm (they overlap significantly), and the bandpasses are not symmetric. Also, V filters tend to be somewhat more efficient. So the net result is that the measured values for B and V are quite close.
I think you are saying, Chris, that since V filters tend to be more efficient than B filters, and because of the widths and the non-symmetry of the bandpasses, the "natural" B-V index of Vega really is about 0.0.

I beg to differ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBV_photometric_system wrote:
UBV photometric system, also called the Johnson system (or Johnson-Morgan system), is a wide band photometric system for classifying stars according to their colors. It is the first known standardized photoelectric photometric system. The letters U, B, and V stand for ultraviolet, blue, and visual magnitudes, which are measured for a star in order to classify it in the UBV system.[1] The choice of colors on the blue end of the spectrum is because of the bias that photographic film has for those colors. It was introduced in the 1950s by American astronomers Harold Lester Johnson and William Wilson Morgan
So the Johnson UBV system was introduced at a time when the available equipment was probably more sensitive to blue light than to any other colors. I very much doubt that the the bandpasses of the 1950s were more sensitive to V light than to B light. They are today, but that is a moot point. It was the 1950s that saw the birth of the UBV system, and it was back then that Vega was defined as the ultimate white star (because its B-V as well as its U-B index was defined to be zero).

My point is that astronomers back defined Vega as white because they believed it was white, not because they had tried to find out whether or not it actually emitted the same amount of yellow-green, blue and ultraviolet light (it doesn't).

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