1/10th of C please

[THX1138]

For all practical purposes, yes I am sincerely grateful that I am living out my life in this century as opposed to the old horse and buggy days but darn (And dam as well) it sure would be awesome to live during a time when it was possible to visit some of the many multitude of wonders that even this here milky way has to offer.
Sorry, daydreaming again / wrong forum.
As per the topic, what would be a fair estimation with regards to how many years? Decades or centuries our current technology is away from achieving manned space flight at that 1/10th of C.

[Chris Peterson]

As per the topic, what would be a fair estimation with regards to how many years? Decades or centuries our current technology is away from achieving manned space flight at that 1/10th of C.

I see no technical barrier to achieving 0.1 c in a few decades or less. I doubt it will happen, though, because there is no social force to drive that development, and nothing much to do with such technology if we did develop it.

[THX1138]

Hi Chris, thanks for your reply and nice job you have there I must ad for the 3rd or 4th time.
But if you would clarify what you wrote just a bit? You would see nothing much to do with such technology for (Manned deep space flight) If we did develop it. That is due to the cost of sending humans as opposed to what our satellites / robots cost us, I suppose?
We will never get to Star-Trek, Tech at this rate.

[Chris Peterson]

Hi Chris, thanks for your reply and nice job you have there I must ad for the 3rd or 4th time.
But if you would clarify what you wrote just a bit? You would see nothing much to do with such technology for (Manned deep space flight) If we did develop it. That is due to the cost of sending humans as opposed to what our satellites / robots cost us, I suppose?
We will never get to Star-Trek, Tech at this rate. :?

What would we do with a 0.1 c spacecraft? I can envision (barely) mounting a KBO or Oort cloud mission, but even so, it would probably extend to decades, and I don't see any sort of political, social, or academic structure in place to fund or otherwise support something like that. As far as manned missions go... well, as I've said before, I largely consider them a waste of resources. Robots are MUCH better at exploration. If we developed a 0.1 c drive technology, I can't see it being used to transport people in any case. At least, not until our social structure changes radically, and I don't see that happening in decades.

[rstevenson]

The nuclear pulse engine -- essentially a way of throwing nuclear bombs out the back and letting them blow the spacecraft forward -- could perhaps get up to about 5% of c, taking about 85,000 years to get to our nearest stellar neighbour. Nuclear fission engines could also get us into the 5% c range. Nuclear fusion engines could, in theory at least, get us to the 10% c level. Other, more speculative technologies, may perhaps move things faster yet.

None of these will be used for manned missions at first -- it's safer and much less expensive to send robots first. And as Chris suggests, that might well be enough for a long time to come.

Rob

[Orca]

...and I don't see any sort of political, social, or academic structure in place to fund or otherwise support something like that.

I think even the idea of missions outside our solar system are a bit premature. I can just imagine trying to sell this (especially the "bomb ship," or in fact anything including the word "nuclear"). "So let me get this straight: you'd like to spend vast amounts of money on a mission - the success of which won't occur for many thousands of years - and you want to launch nuclear material to do it?!?"

[rstevenson]

"So let me get this straight: you'd like to spend vast amounts of money on a mission - the success of which won't occur for many thousands of years - and you want to launch nuclear material to do it?!?"

Want to? No. I want to snap my fingers and get Star Trek technology. But baby steps first.

Wanting to spend vast amounts of money to send out interstellar probes isn't really relevant. Some group of humans, from one of our cultures, will do it some day. Don't forget, the money is spent down here on Earth, employing scientists and engineers and a host of others, who can then buy houses and groceries and college educations for their children and so on. Money doesn't disappear when it's spent -- it grows. See here.

Rob

[Orca]

"So let me get this straight: you'd like to spend vast amounts of money on a mission - the success of which won't occur for many thousands of years - and you want to launch nuclear material to do it?!?"

1. Want to? No. I want to snap my fingers and get Star Trek technology. But baby steps first.

2. Wanting to spend vast amounts of money to send out interstellar probes isn't really relevant. Some group of humans, from one of our cultures, will do it some day. Don't forget, the money is spent down here on Earth, employing scientists and engineers and a host of others, who can then buy houses and groceries and college educations for their children and so on. Money doesn't disappear when it's spent -- it grows. See here.

Rob

1. I love Star Trek, don't get me wrong. I enjoy the stories, the characters, even the "message." However there is very little real science involved in that franchise. I am not sure if it is the best "mascot" of sorts for future technologies.

--------

2. Wanting is completely relevant. It is exactly what Chris was talking about. We nerds can happily chit chat about what's technically and physically possible; about the sort of "dream missions" we'd like to see. At the same time, the vast majority of people want to know their tax dollars are being used as efficiently and effectively as possible. Space probes that won't reach their targets for thousands of generations likely land very low on the priority list.

No need to invoke the Keynesian multiplier effect. If you want to talk economics, go simpler: economics is the study of how to balance limited resources with unlimited want. Are you really suggesting that - whether the money is spent on schools or 50,000 year interstellar missions - the net benefit for society is the same?

[orin stepanek]

Let alone interstellar travel; I don't think sending a manned mission to Mars is practical with present technology! The only thing going there would prove is that it could be done/ and maybe getting some geology samples! Which could easier be obtained by robots. It would be very interesting though! Eventually 10%c but let technology develop a little slower. I can't even keep up with wireless technology. My grandchildren are way ahead of me!

[rstevenson]

1. I love Star Trek, don't get me wrong. I enjoy the stories, the characters, even the "message." However there is very little real science involved in that franchise. I am not sure if it is the best "mascot" of sorts for future technologies.

I was being facetious.

Are you really suggesting that - whether the money is spent on schools or 50,000 year interstellar missions - the net benefit for society is the same?

That's not a reasonable choice to offer; it's never that simple.

Some society will make the decision to send the first interstellar probe. Don't you want it to be yours?

Rob

[Chris Peterson]

Some society will make the decision to send the first interstellar probe. Don't you want it to be yours?

Some society might make that decision, although I think it unlikely. If one does, I wouldn't mind it being mine... but I doubt very much that my society will exist by the time that could happen.

[Orca]

1. I love Star Trek, don't get me wrong. I enjoy the stories, the characters, even the "message." However there is very little real science involved in that franchise. I am not sure if it is the best "mascot" of sorts for future technologies.

1. I was being facetious.

Are you really suggesting that - whether the money is spent on schools or 50,000 year interstellar missions - the net benefit for society is the same?

2. That's not a reasonable choice to offer; it's never that simple.

Some society will make the decision to send the first interstellar probe. Don't you want it to be yours?

Rob

1.Perhaps you were. The idea is tossed around often by many people so I figured it was worth commenting on.

2.Schools vs Interstellar Probes may sound like 'apples and Volkswagens.' However, we do have to make choices about how our limited resources are spent. We have to be realistic. Certainly, the general public would choose education or infrastructure over extravagant (and for all intents and purposes, fruitless) missions.

Do I want to be part of the society that sends the first interstellar probe? Exploration - like life in general - is forever subject to opportunity costs. Personally I'd rather see the money go toward a mission within the solar system that would produce tangible results in the next few years.

[BMAONE23]

There is one thing that would come from a "Think Tank" process attempting to design an interstellar mission that would prove fruitful. The technology required to make the journey in a timely manner would also provide for significant improvements in interplanetary travel for manned missions.
We may leave the realm of limited travel imposed by current Liquid/Solid propellant rockets.

[THX1138]

As soon as the JWT finds a rock located in the Goldilocks zone (Of which I so much hope it does) How about a plan for visiting / Inhabiting it? Forget the constant fixation on the limits of current tech.
1/50th of C. a 12 Yr. Trip ?.

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has it’s limits.
Albert Einstein

[geckzilla]

Einstein probably didn't say that. But if he did, I hope he managed to leave out the rogue apostrophe.

[Chris Peterson]

As soon as the JWT finds a rock located in the Goldilocks zone (Of which I so much hope it does) How about a plan for visiting / Inhabiting it? Forget the constant fixation on the limits of current tech.
1/50th of C. a 12 Yr. Trip ?.

How do you figure? The closest star is a 200 year trip at 1/50 c, and the nearest star with a goldilocks zone is probably much further.

I can't imagine how any massive engineering effort can begin without first focusing on the limits of current technology!

[Chris Peterson]

Einstein probably didn't say that. But if he did, I hope he managed to leave out the rogue apostrophe.

There are enough references to this quote to make me think it is probably authentic, but darned if I can find an actual reference to the original source. And for the most part, other instances utilize proper spelling.

[geckzilla]

There's an interesting discussion on the matter on this Talk page.

[THX1138]

The apostrophe came along for the ride in a copy / paste, its most peculiar that I could not find any specified date for the quote and I searched quite a bit.
The 1/50th is my bad, I had meant 50% of but do keep in mind; ladies and gentlemen, that I am just a simple cabinetmaker just like my father was and as his father was before him and I assure all of you that I am well aware of the fact that I am way out of my league even posting questions on this site. In overview of the fact, my problem is that I am and have always been absolutely and unequivocally in love with the majesty, the grandeur, the beauty of the universe and quite factually I cannot even find the words to describe how much so as none of those which I have used even lend justice to how aw inspiring it is. The best part of my day is when I can sit down, relax and come to this site to see what the picture of the day is and read about it.
There is nothing that I can imagine that I would like more than to be able to reject the reality of the lot of you and substitute it with my own. It does not piss me off that we are stuck on this rock and unable to travel to other wondrous places, other planets orbiting far away stars and etc, Etc, Etc. Furthermore it does not piss me off that there are so many stars in just this milky way that even if one were to live to be eighty years old and traveled to a different star every day for that eighty years you still could not have come close to visiting; I’m thinking, even one quarter of them. Piss me off, no, it fricking hurts, hurts deep and bad
Ok I’m done rambling, sorry to have wasted your time for those of you; if any, that have bothered to read this.
Thank you for being here Astronomy Picture Of The Day

Happy Thanksgiving everyone

[geckzilla]

Hey, how is it a waste of time if you're learning? And just be careful about all those witty one liners attributed to Einstein. Maybe he said them, maybe he didn't. There's a lot of them attributed to various famous people just to give the quotation an air of authority that "anonymous" or "unknown" can't bestow it.