Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

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Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by bystander » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:18 pm

Simulation shows it’s possible to tow an iceberg to drought areas
PhysOrg | Bob Yirka | 2011 Aug 09
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Image credit: Trevor Williams

Way back in the 70’s Georges Mougin, then an engineering graduate, had a big idea. He suggested that icebergs floating around in the North Atlantic could be tethered and dragged south to places that were experiencing a severe drought, such as the Sahel of West Africa. Mougin received some backing funds from a Saudi prince but most “experts” at the time scoffed at his idea and the whole scheme was eventually shelved.

Cut to 2009 and French software firm Dassault Systemes, who thought maybe Mougin was on to something after all and contacted him to suggest modeling the whole idea on a computer. After applying 15 engineers to the problem, the team concluded that towing an iceberg from the waters around Newfoundland to the Canary Islands off the northwest coast of Africa, could be done, and would take under five months, though it would cost nearly ten million dollars.

In the simulation, as in a real world attempt, the selected iceberg would first be fitted with an insulating skirt to stave off melting; it would then be connected to a tugboat (and a kite sail) that would travel at about one knot (assuming assistance from ocean currents). In the simulated test, the iceberg arrived intact having lost only 38 percent of its seven ton mass.

A real world project would of course require hauling a much bigger berg; experts estimate a 30 million ton iceberg could provide fresh water for half a million people for up to a year. There would also be the problem of transporting the water from the berg in the ocean to the drought stricken people. The extraordinary costs for such a project would, it is assumed, come from the price tag for the skirt, five months of diesel fuel for the tugboat, the man hours involved and then finally, distribution of the fresh water at the destination.

Scientists estimate that some 40,000 icebergs break away from the polar ice caps each year, though only a fraction of them would be large enough to be worth the time and expense of dragging them to a place experiencing a drought, such as the devastating one currently going on in the Horn of Africa.

Mougin, newly reinvigorated by the results of the recent study, at age 86, is now trying to raise money for a real-world test of the idea.

How to Tow a Building-Sized Iceberg
Wired Science | Mark Brown, Wired UK | 2011 Aug 10


French engineer Georges Mougin has a big idea. He wants to go to Antarctica, tie a big rope around a six-million-tonne iceberg, drag it back to Africa and melt it into fresh, drinkable water.

Some might call him crazy, but Mougin reckons the plan could work. Using 3D computer simulations and declassified satellite data, his “IceDream” team believes that towing a drifting mountain of fresh water to Africa is absolutely possible.

He came up with the plan more than three decades ago, when he and polar explorer Paul-Emile Victor met with a Saudi prince called Mohamed al-Faisal. They formed the ITI Company (Iceberg Transport International) and looked at the epic project’s feasibility from 1975 to 1981.

But with various obstacles, a lack of data and insufficient technology, the team realized the project was unrealistic. Mougin shelved the outlandish idea and put the dream on pause.

That is, until 2009. He discovered a French technology firm called Dassault Systèmes which creates 3D worlds and algorithmic simulations to design and test future products. Mougin could now test his various theories on iceberg-towing virtually, to see whether his idea would be feasible.

Those computer simulations allowed Mougin to answer a number of questions. By mapping the heat exchanges of the iceberg under the blazing sun, he could anticipate the amount the iceberg would melt in transit. Another simulation can show how the iceberg would crack and break up over time.

He also used meteorological and oceanographic data from satellites to track currents, and decide how to tow an iceberg from Newfoundland to the Canary Isles. This gave him all the data he needed to figure out how the journey would happen.

According to Mougin, an iceberg of several million tons can be towed several thousand kilometers to the Canary Islands, in 141 days, using just one tugboat. The ‘berg would lose 38 percent of its mass during the trip, and a skirt made from non-woven geotextile strips could keep it from breaking apart.

Encouraged by the results, the IceDream team has plans to take the idea beyond the realm of simulation, and try it in the real world. According to Fast Company, there are talks, at least, of a real-world trial in 2012 or 2013.

Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg
Universe Today | Nancy Atkinson | 2011 Aug 10
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The Sydney iceberg, an April Fools' joke.

As an April Fool’s joke in 1978, Australian businessman Dick Smith claimed he was towing an iceberg from Antarctica to Sydney Harbour. He used a barge covered with white plastic and fire extinguisher foam in effort to convince those who gathered at the harbor to see it. Apparently, however, the idea is not such a joke after all. A team of engineers from France have studied the concept, did a simulation and found that icebergs floating around in the ocean could be tethered and towed to places that are experiencing a severe drought and water shortages.

The idea originally was conceived in the 1970’s by an graduate student named Georges Mougin, who even received some funds from a Saudi prince to test the idea, but not much came of it.

According to an article on PhysOrg, the French engineers looked into the idea and concluded that towing an iceberg from, for example, the waters around Newfoundland to the Canary Islands off the northwest coast of Africa, could be done, and would take just under five months when towed by a tugboat outfitted with a kite sail, traveling at about one knot.

The cost would be almost ten million dollars, however.

According to a simulated test, the iceberg would lose only 38 percent of its seven ton mass during the trip, if it was fitted with an insulated skirt.

Apparently Mougin is encouraged by the results and now at age 86 is trying to raise money for an actual iceberg-tow.
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BMAONE23
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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by BMAONE23 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:30 pm

Perhaps it would be cheaper to drill into the mass, install masts and sails and sail the berg to where it was needed :wink: :mrgreen:

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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by orin stepanek » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:13 pm

sounds like towing an iceberg would help cool it's final stopping spot and be of value on those dog days of summer. :lol: :wink: :mrgreen:
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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by eleanormars » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:40 am

if they could actually do this in reality, it would be such a great acheivement for both the science world, technology, and also the people who are suffering from not having enough water in desert areas.

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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by geckzilla » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:59 pm

I still like my plan of only living in places which are ideal for human habitation and just leaving the rest of the earth for other animals to live in the niches they are so finely adapted for.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by bystander » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:09 pm

geckzilla wrote:I still like my plan of only living in places which are ideal for human habitation ...
You mean like NYC :?: :? I somehow find that less than ideal :!: :mrgreen:
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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:19 pm

geckzilla wrote:I still like my plan of only living in places which are ideal for human habitation and just leaving the rest of the earth for other animals to live in the niches they are so finely adapted for.
Where would that be, exactly? Where we could survive naked, and picking our food off the trees?

Like rats and cockroaches, humans are nearly ideally suited to live just about anywhere on the planet. That's our niche. We shouldn't need to leave other animals to other places. Rather, we should be able to live alongside them. That has worked throughout most of the existence of our species. But as successful and prolific breeders, we've changed that equation in the last centuries. However, I expect that "success" will prove short lived, and soon enough there will be more room for other animals again.
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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by owlice » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:20 pm

geckzilla wrote:I still like my plan of only living in places which are ideal for human habitation and just leaving the rest of the earth for other animals to live in the niches they are so finely adapted for.
But does San Diego have room for all of us??
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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by BMAONE23 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:36 pm

I don't know about San Diego, but you could stand the entire population of the planet on the Big Island of Hawaii and have room to spare.

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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by bystander » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:52 pm

BMAONE23 wrote:but you could stand the entire population of the planet on the Big Island of Hawaii and have room to spare.
Making it far from ideal!
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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:07 pm

BMAONE23 wrote:I don't know about San Diego, but you could stand the entire population of the planet on the Big Island of Hawaii and have room to spare.
You could also pack the entire population into a cube about one kilometer on a side. And if you did that, their body heat would be enough to result in thermonuclear fusion! That might be seen as ideal by some non-human species.
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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by geckzilla » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:22 pm

I didn't mean sitting around naked picking fruit off trees. But certainly some people are currently living in less than ideal conditions because there are not enough resources to support them. Just because we can live anywhere doesn't mean we should, imo. I mean, you could chop down a jungle and take it over. You can also irrigate a desert and make it arable. But really, why do we need to encroach everywhere? NYC is definitely an ideal place for many people, especially people who love to be around other people. The winters can be rather harsh, however. I wish San Diego had enough room for us all. Alas, it is already too crowded. :(
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by BMAONE23 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:12 pm

Perhaps we could redesign the San Diego Skyline to encompass 150 story buildings that offer apartments, shopping, dining, entertainment, and other places of employment such that there would be no need to leave your building to commute to or from work or to shop or to eat. You could leave if you wished to but you would only need to travel to a different floor if you needed something.

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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by geckzilla » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:56 pm

And there should be machines that fine you for using profanity and the only fast food is Taco Bell.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by orin stepanek » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:05 pm

BMAONE23 wrote:Perhaps we could redesign the San Diego Skyline to encompass 150 story buildings that offer apartments, shopping, dining, entertainment, and other places of employment such that there would be no need to leave your building to commute to or from work or to shop or to eat. You could leave if you wished to but you would only need to travel to a different floor if you needed something.
Sounds like a harsh environment! :? Some people need room to move around. Others are content to live in confinement. It;s nice to have bigger cities to shop in or visit; but I like the smaller rural cities away from the hubbub. As far as animals are concerned; many come visit our city without a problem. I've had possum in my back yard and seen deer at the cities edge by the river.
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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by BMAONE23 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:41 pm

I see many deer, skunks, raccoons & opposums also, although more often they are in pieces along the roadways

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Re: Got Drought? Just Tow in an Iceberg!

Post by orin stepanek » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:48 pm

BMAONE23 wrote:I see many deer, skunks, raccoons & opposums also, although more often they are in pieces along the roadways
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
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