Hawking radiation evidence
Hawking radiation evidence
is this evidence of hawking radiation?also is there any other evidence for it? http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80bea ... radiation/
- neufer
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
1) probably notoutlaw wrote:
is this evidence of hawking radiation?
also is there any other evidence for it?
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80bea ... radiation/
2) no
Art Neuendorffer
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
Didn't Roger Penrose win that battle ?outlaw wrote:is this evidence of hawking radiation?also is there any other evidence for it? http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80bea ... radiation/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycles_of_Time_%28book%29
tc
Always trying to find the answers
- neufer
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
Different issue.The Code wrote:Didn't Roger Penrose win that battle ?outlaw wrote:
is this evidence of hawking radiation?also is there any other evidence for it?
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80bea ... radiation/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycles_of_Time_%28book%29
Art Neuendorffer
Re: Hawking radiation evidence
what does the article talk about?neufer wrote:1) probably notoutlaw wrote:
is this evidence of hawking radiation?
also is there any other evidence for it?
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80bea ... radiation/
2) no
Re: Hawking radiation evidence
The article first gives a little background on Hawking radiation. Then says that a team of researchers claims to have found another way to separate particle/anti-particle pairs without using black holes (because we cannot create ones to experiment with this). However their experiment is only a claim, it is not proven at all, only as an idea for now till it is evaluated and redone.
Re: Hawking radiation evidence
can hawking radiation be explained without virtual particles?Aescens wrote:The article first gives a little background on Hawking radiation. Then says that a team of researchers claims to have found another way to separate particle/anti-particle pairs without using black holes (because we cannot create ones to experiment with this). However their experiment is only a claim, it is not proven at all, only as an idea for now till it is evaluated and redone.
- neufer
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
Of course.outlaw wrote:
can hawking radiation be explained without virtual particles?
The main advantage of virtual particles is in providing for simplified explanations.
Art Neuendorffer
Re: Hawking radiation evidence
how come all the information i get is connecting virtual particles with hawking radiation?neufer wrote:Of course.outlaw wrote:
can hawking radiation be explained without virtual particles?
The main advantage of virtual particles is in providing for simplified explanations.
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
Probably because you wouldn't understand alternative explanationsoutlaw wrote:how come all the information i get is connecting virtual particles with hawking radiation?neufer wrote:Of course.outlaw wrote:
can hawking radiation be explained without virtual particles?
The main advantage of virtual particles is in providing for simplified explanations.
(which are mathematically equivalent to virtual particle explanations anyway.)
Art Neuendorffer
Re: Hawking radiation evidence
do virtual particles time travel?
Re: Hawking radiation evidence
What do you mean by time travel? The movie definition? Or relativistic and quantum effects?outlaw wrote:do virtual particles time travel?
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
outlaw wrote:
do virtual particles time travel?
- You have no idea
Art Neuendorffer
Re: Hawking radiation evidence
so they do time travel backwards?neufer wrote:outlaw wrote:
do virtual particles time travel?
- You have no idea
Re: Hawking radiation evidence
what would be the difference?Aescens wrote:What do you mean by time travel? The movie definition? Or relativistic and quantum effects?outlaw wrote:do virtual particles time travel?
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
The "movie definition" suggests something physically traveling backwards in time, carrying information. No particle does that, virtual or otherwise. But in quantum mechanics it is convenient to consider that particles can travel either forward or backward in time. They need not be virtual- positrons are typically treated as moving backwards in time. This does not violate relativity or causality, however, since no information is transported backwards in time.outlaw wrote:what would be the difference?Aescens wrote:What do you mean by time travel? The movie definition? Or relativistic and quantum effects?
Chris
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
So virtual particles don't time travel backwards?Chris Peterson wrote:The "movie definition" suggests something physically traveling backwards in time, carrying information. No particle does that, virtual or otherwise. But in quantum mechanics it is convenient to consider that particles can travel either forward or backward in time. They need not be virtual- positrons are typically treated as moving backwards in time. This does not violate relativity or causality, however, since no information is transported backwards in time.outlaw wrote:what would be the difference?Aescens wrote:What do you mean by time travel? The movie definition? Or relativistic and quantum effects?
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
In the way you seem to intuit the meaning of traveling backwards in time, no, they don't. No particles travel backwards in time, although it is sometimes convenient to treat them that way mathematically, within the framework of current theory.outlaw wrote:So virtual particles don't time travel backwards?
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
On this article,maybe i reading it wrong if you scroll down to "faster than light?" it says they do travel backwards in time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PropagatorChris Peterson wrote:In the way you seem to intuit the meaning of traveling backwards in time, no, they don't. No particles travel backwards in time, although it is sometimes convenient to treat them that way mathematically, within the framework of current theory.outlaw wrote:So virtual particles don't time travel backwards?
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
You are reading it wrong. You are failing to distinguish between a mathematical (or even physical) equivalency to going faster than light or going backward in time, and what this means when stated in English (which is very imprecise for ideas like this).outlaw wrote:On this article,maybe i reading it wrong if you scroll down to "faster than light?" it says they do travel backwards in time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propagator
If you want to envision some particles going backwards in time, do so. But since there is no information being conveyed in that direction, it's hard to see what difference it makes.
Chris
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
if im reading relativity correct,please correct me if im wrong,if something were to travel faster than light in one frame it will travel backwards in time?Chris Peterson wrote:You are reading it wrong. You are failing to distinguish between a mathematical (or even physical) equivalency to going faster than light or going backward in time, and what this means when stated in English (which is very imprecise for ideas like this).outlaw wrote:On this article,maybe i reading it wrong if you scroll down to "faster than light?" it says they do travel backwards in time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propagator
If you want to envision some particles going backwards in time, do so. But since there is no information being conveyed in that direction, it's hard to see what difference it makes.
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
If pigs could fly. The "if" in this case is physically meaningless. Since nothing physical can travel faster than c with respect to another physical thing in the same frame, nothing can travel backwards in time by that mechanism. Just because the math leads to that conclusion (i.e. if you plug in v>c you get -t) that doesn't mean there is any physical meaning to it. All sorts of theories are described by math that can lead to unphysical conclusions if you fail to take into considerations the conditions of validity for those theories. And one of those conditions in the case of relativity is that v<=c. Outside that boundary condition, the math that describes the theory is not valid.outlaw wrote:if im reading relativity correct,please correct me if im wrong,if something were to travel faster than light in one frame it will travel backwards in time?
Chris
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
I think this is the article that says virtual particles travel faster than light and even backwards in time. http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physic ... icles.htmlChris Peterson wrote:If pigs could fly. The "if" in this case is physically meaningless. Since nothing physical can travel faster than c with respect to another physical thing in the same frame, nothing can travel backwards in time by that mechanism. Just because the math leads to that conclusion (i.e. if you plug in v>c you get -t) that doesn't mean there is any physical meaning to it. All sorts of theories are described by math that can lead to unphysical conclusions if you fail to take into considerations the conditions of validity for those theories. And one of those conditions in the case of relativity is that v<=c. Outside that boundary condition, the math that describes the theory is not valid.outlaw wrote:if im reading relativity correct,please correct me if im wrong,if something were to travel faster than light in one frame it will travel backwards in time?
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
I'm pretty sure you're just a poorly written computer program. A real person wouldn't keep asking the same question over and over after it had already been answered (many times).outlaw wrote:I think this is the article that says virtual particles travel faster than light and even backwards in time. http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physic ... icles.html
Chris
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Re: Hawking radiation evidence
Do we know of anything that travels back in time?Chris Peterson wrote:I'm pretty sure you're just a poorly written computer program. A real person wouldn't keep asking the same question over and over after it had already been answered (many times).outlaw wrote:I think this is the article that says virtual particles travel faster than light and even backwards in time. http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physic ... icles.html