Semantics, lexigraphy, syntax, spelling, grammar...

[mastrulo]

Todays' APOD "The Cat's Eye Nebula from Hubble "
Lets now use the heading in its full name: The Cat is Eye Nebula from Hubble.
However to all my colleagues and other learned individuals, one using the kings English, we would of course place the "Apostrophe" not where we want to shorten the word, but where it will add to the meaning.
Thus: " The Cats' Eye Nebula from Hubble" This has now totally converted the meaning to reality! the Nebula Belongs to the Cat! and NOT the Cat is Eye the Nebula.
I urge all and sundry to reset their spell checkers to allow the correct meaning and not allow a travesty of us having studied more than the lay person and certainly we want to encourage the up coming youth to inherit our world in the right path to the English language.
The simple rule is thus, if you wish to shorten a word to add it to another as it is becomes it's, and do not becomes don't, BUT if the House belongs to me, then Tonys' House is the correct use of the apostrophe, else it be Tony's House, which of course is Tony is House.

I ask all to adopt the English language, or if you cannot, then do not spoil it for the masses.

Thank you.
Tony Mastrullo.

[bystander]

Tony's mistake (a mistake belonging to Tony)

Code: Select all

Cat  (singular) Cat's (singular possessive) The Cat's Eye (an eye belonging to one cat) !!!
Cats (plural)   Cats' (plural possessive)   The Cats' Eye (an eye belonging to more than one cat) ???

I'm not sure where you went to school, but your English teacher would be embarrassed.

[mastrulo]

Hi,
No offence intended, but it seems you too have been tugged into the event horizon with your use (mis-use) of the Apostrophe in the Cats' Eye Nebula from Hubble.
My change of the location of the Apostrophe is intentional.
Do you know why?

I seek the proper use of the language, else don't use MMM Do Not use apostrophes.

Without Prejudice.
Kindest Regards.
Tony Mastrullo.

[bystander]

I seek the proper use of the language, else don't use MMM Do Not use apostrophes.

If you seek the proper use of the language, then it would behoove you to use it properly. Your attempt to change it is misguided.

[mastrulo]

I think not!
I love how you attempt to justify a plural, and progressive plurals?
What English grammar is that from.
The Cat, yes a single Cat.
The Cats, More than one.
The Cat's, Cannot exist without being part of a sentence with extra nouns and adjectives.
Thus "The Cat's unapproachable, or the Cat is Unapproachable.
The Cats' Eye, is the equivalent of the grammar to ownership, thus the sentence is the same as the Eye of the Cat, the eye belongs to the cat.
How do you explain using your grammar logic for the following?
1/. I am not sick. OR I'm not sick.
2/. He's sick. OR He is sick.
There is and cannot be a progressive plural here, how does your logic explain the Cat's Eye? Following on that , the Cats' eye?
I look forward to more like I don't mind if you do not mind as to where you learned your English.
My simple rule was burned into my logic, the apostrophe replaces the letter to join two words, or it is pertaining to the ownership of the following word, Vis The Cats' Eye, means the eye is owned by the Cat.
A very simple rule to remember.
Tell me what your meaning of " The Cat's Eye Nebula from Hubble", are you trying to say the many cats eyes nebula from Hubble?
Surely not.
However, my understanding is much more to the meaning, as we don't have more than one Cat, nor more than one Nebula, therefore there cannot exist any plurals, can there now?
I trust my short lesson will attract some real English teachers of the old world.
Thank you for your input, I look forward to a real expert to answer my understanding, if of course it is wrong, else I welcome the humble pie.

Kindest Regards.
Tony Mastrullo.

[mastrulo]

I apologise, for my not using the Kings' English correctly.
However, I still stand by the use of the Apostrophe, and yes, I have again misused the language, it's the new age to attempt to change it slightly when one needs to draw attention to a word.
I tend to "use a Capital" to draw attention to the word in point.
But I do concede it being not the Kings' English. I still stand by my absolute meaning of the placement of the apostrophe.
Kindest Regards.
Tony Mastrullo.
PS As to the other reply, yes it is wonderful, it appears you need additional medications to see the questions, and the core of the discussion.

[bystander]

Google possessive nouns

[JohnD]

This reference to the Lynne Truss book "Eats, shoots and leaves" may help you, Tony.
http://us.penguingroup.com/static/pdf/t ... leaves.pdf
Page 3 and following pages.
Use of apostrophe perennially confuses people.
The link shows the simple rules that govern the apostrophe, in either American or English usage, which are not the same.

I recommend also the rest of Ms.Truss' book (note the apostrophe!)
"The Cat's eye" is entirely correct.

John

[mastrulo]

Hi,
I thank you to the attention of ones' opinion, and as I don't know the number of books sold, then it is ones' opinion + 80% of the total (using the basic 80/20 rule).
I would have been happier to be referred to the USA curriculum on the teaching of the English language in your schools, as that would be the marker by which a judgement can be passed.
I agree with the difference of US and UK (+ colonies, like Australia) having minor differences in the use of the English language.
Thus, in my teaching, the Cat's Eye is entirely incorrect.
I hereby agree to disagree for a period of time till proof as admissible in any science paper or court can pass judgement as to the correct format.

Cheers Mate.
Tony Mastrullo.
PS I'm fair dinkum right!

[JohnD]

If you insist on a US reference, how about "White Smoke" an American grammar and spellchecking software company?
Their website includes this page: http://www.whitesmoke.com/apostrophe-in-english
The exceptions between UK and US usage are minor, and do not include "the cat's eye".

John

[neufer]

Click to play embedded YouTube video.

[owlice]

Heh. I notice Higgins suggests that Eliza should be "hung." At the time that was written, I wonder whether "hanged" was still preferred and considered U rather than "hung"?

[neufer]

Heh. I notice Higgins suggests that Eliza should be "hung." At the time that was written,
I wonder whether "hanged" was still preferred and considered U rather than "hung"?

____ King Henry IV, Part ii Act 1, Scene 2

FALSTAFF: I give thee leave to tell me so! I lay aside that
__ which grows to me! if thou gettest any leave of me,
__ hang me; if thou takest leave, thou wert better be
__ hanged. You hunt counter: hence! avaunt!
-----------------------------------------------------
'Hanged' is preferred but NOT required ...especially if given poetic license:

http://www.rhymezone.com/r/rhyme.cgi?Wo ... 2=l&org3=y
http://www.rhymezone.com/r/rhyme.cgi?Wo ... 2=l&org3=y

-----------------------------------------------------
____ The Merry Wives of Windsor Act 4, Scene 1

SIR HUGH EVANS: I pray you, have your remembrance, child,
__ accusative, hung, hang, hog.
-----------------------------------------------------
____ Love's Labour's Lost Act 5, Scene 2

HOLOFERNES: Begin, sir; you are my elder.

BIRON: Well followed: Judas was hanged on an elder.
-----------------------------------------------------

[geckzilla]

One might also take into consideration 2011's list of banished words.

http://www.lssu.edu/banished/current.php

[owlice]

'Hanged' is preferred but NOT required ...especially if given poetic license:

Right, but which would a Higgins (not that Higgins, apparently, but a real Higgins), who seems to be all about U (or "posh" as many call it now), have preferred?

[rstevenson]

Thus, in my teaching, the Cat's Eye is entirely incorrect.
I hereby agree to disagree for a period of time till proof as admissible in any science paper or court can pass judgement as to the correct format.

G'day Tony,

You may wish to review the following sources...
http://www.putlearningfirst.com/languag ... rophe.html
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Apostrophes
http://www.apostrophe.org.uk/

All agree that Cat's Eye is correct usage, and that Cats' Eye would be an eye shared by multiple cats -- an unlikely possibility, as I'm sure you'll agree.

The basic rule is that the apostrophe is placed according to the quantity of things doing the possessing, not the quantity of things possessed. Hence, "dog's bones" means the bones of one dog, whereas "dogs' bones" means the bones of two or more dogs.

Rob

[neufer]

'Hanged' is preferred but NOT required ...especially if given poetic license:

Right, but which would a Higgins (not that Higgins, apparently,
but a real Higgins), who seems to be all about U (or "posh" as many call it now), have preferred?

<<A Hang is a musical instrument in the idiophone class created by PANArt in Switzerland. The Hang is made from two deep drawn nitrided steel sheets that are attached together creating the recognizable 'UFO shape'. The Hang is typically played resting on the player's lap, and can also be played on a stand. The Hang is generally played with the hands and fingers instead of mallets. This lighter playing tends to produce a complex overtone-rich sound that could be considered 'softer' and 'warmer' than the 'bright' sound of a mallet based traditional steelpan. There is nothing inside the Hang but air. The top ("Ding") side has a center 'note' hammered into it with seven or eight 'tone fields' hammered around it. The 'bottom' (Gu side) of the Hang has ghatam/udu-like properties using the Helmholtz resonance that occurs within the clamped shallow shells. In the 2nd Generation and Integral Hang adjustment of the size of the opening of the Gu 'hole' (by partially blocking it with either a hand, or the legs) can generate a sympathetic D2 from the Helmholtz resonance that activates subtle layers of cross complexities in the resonance of the instrument as notes are played on the Ding side. In the 1st and 2nd Generation models there is a single high note with a long sustain that can be generated by striking the rim of the hole on the 'Gu' side. The creation of the Hang was the result of many years of research on the steelpan as well as the study of a diverse collection of instruments from around the world such as gongs, gamelan, ghatam, drums, and bells.>>

[Chris Peterson]

My goodness. APODs sometimes bring out the pseudoscientific crazies, but I think this is the first one to bring out a pseudogrammarian!

[JohnD]

Heh. I notice Higgins suggests that Eliza should be "hung." At the time that was written, I wonder whether "hanged" was still preferred and considered U rather than "hung"?

Not when the word is required to rhyme with "tongue", or to be of one syllable.
It's called 'poetic licence'!

I suppose that Lerner could have written,
"By rights she should be taken out and and hanged
For murdering the language of the English Land"
but that's only a half-rhyme, and the scansion is DREADFUL.

If you can think of a better rhyme ..........................
John

[owlice]

Or poetic license on this side of the pond.

Your proposed fix is excellent! Better that than that which he wrote!

[owlice]

neufer, you're going to make me go to House of Musical Traditions to look for a hang, you know. If they have one, I'm putting it on your tab!

[Beyond]

GADZOOKS what a thread! In It's own way it is just as wonderful as the Cat's Eye that started it. YEE-HA!!

[owlice]

beyond, I don't know that I'd call this thread "wonderful," but it is certainly entertaining.

[mastrulo]

Hi All,
I have achieved my set out purpose.
I indented to highlight the use of the apostrophe, and to see how many references to useless works, and ones opinions in a book written.
I still ask the question.
Why has no one referred me to the US English teaching of the use of the apostrophe, surely this would be the only authority on the subject?
Is there a congressional hearing to change it? If not, then we are back to the US schools English books.
I am amused on how many are easily misguided by a singular belief that if this Dictionary company, or if Fair Lady, or if Luigi has said it then it must be.
Not so.
I will not be led down a garden path by a singular mind that will not allow one to look outside the square and provide the only authority that US English is taught to use the apostrophe this way or that.
I think the argument can only be settled by the facts, and not this book or that.
I look forward to, and I am man enough to admit I'm wrong, however, UK and US differences aside, no one has yet proved by the only authority that can.
I am repeating myself, but with the view that by explaining it in the different ways, I have in one swoop shot you all out of the water, with a single salvo.
Have fun if you must, but at the end of the day, if the truth is equal to 5, then 5 it was, 5 it is and 5 it will be.
Thank you all for the amusement.
All the best from down under.
Kindest Regards.
Tony Mastrullo.

[neufer]

poetic license

---

Rhymes with Hanged

Heh. I notice Higgins suggests that Eliza should be "hung." At the time that was written, I wonder whether "hanged" was still preferred and considered U rather than "hung"?

Not when the word is required to rhyme with "tongue", or to be of one syllable. It's called 'poetic licence'!

I suppose that Lerner could have written,
"By rights she should be taken out and and hanged
For murdering the language of the English Land"
but that's only a half-rhyme, and the scansion is DREADFUL.

If you can think of a better rhyme ..........................