oblong split from APOD: Mare Orientale (2011 Mar 12)

[rstevenson]

So the normal, circular craters look oval. Oval, not oblong!

From an on-line dictionary...
Oblong: having an elongated shape, as a rectangle or an oval

Rob

[Beyond]

I saw that also, Rob. Sometimes its a case of potato or patato, but here its really oval and not oblong.

[JohnD]

Or from the OED - what other dictionary has such authority?
"a & n deviating from the square form by having one long axis, greater in breadth than height"
Note 'from the square form', no oval this!

JohnD, and no Beach Boy he!

[Beyond]

Now hold on here just a cotton pickin' minute, JohnD, are you now saying that the craters are NOT oval

[JohnD]

The craters you pointed out are CIRCULAR. You are looking at them near the limb of the Moon, at such an angle that they appear to be oval.

"Oblong", as a description of that appearance was incorrect. "Oblong" means a rectangular object, with two unequal pairs of equal sides, as (maybe better) defined by the OED. The previous definition as meaning an elongated circle was incorrrect.

OK, now?

JOhn

[rstevenson]

"Oblong", as a description of that appearance was incorrect. "Oblong" means a rectangular object, with two unequal pairs of equal sides, as (maybe better) defined by the OED. The previous definition as meaning an elongated circle was incorrrect.

So you say. Others have other opinions...

"1. Deviating from a square, circular, or spherical form by being elongated in one direction.
2. Having the shape of or resembling a rectangle or an ellipse."

"Having the figure of an egg; oblong and curvilinear, with one end broader than the other, or with both ends of about the same breadth; ..."

There's a tendancy to believe that the OED is the final arbiter, but English usage is a moving target and the OED doesn't always manage to keep up.

Rob

[JohnD]

"Oh, for goodness sake!", said Alice, "I mean what I say and I say what I mean - it's the same thing!"

Cherry picking definitions will get us nowhere. Let's have a match:

Definitions of oblong on the Web:
"(of a leaf shape) having a somewhat elongated form with approximately parallel sides
a plane figure that deviates from a square or circle due to elongation
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn [score 1 to rectangular]

Something with an oblong shape; A rectangle having length greater than width; Describing something that is longer than it is wide; Roughly rectangular or ellipsoidal
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oblong [Score 2 to rectangular]

oblongness - rectangularity: the property of being shaped like a rectangle
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn [Score 3 to rectangular]

of the leaves, when the sides of the leaves are parallel and narrow abruptly at both ends [image] of the buds, when the buds are ± cylindrical with parrallel sides
http://www.publish.csiro.au/samples/euc ... ossary.htm [Score 4 to rectangular 4--0]

having the shape of or resembling a rectangle or ellipse
http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/cbd/musselmanual/glossary.html [Score one each to rectangular and sort-of-circular: 5-1]

At least twice as long as broad, with parallel sides.
http://www.t-c-m-rd.co.uk/resources/glossary/ [Score 6-1]

an (approximately) right-angled, 4-sided shape; longer than broad with opposite sides (roughly) parallel; often rounded near the ends.
http://www.understorey-network.org.au/b ... ssary.html [Score 7-1]

A leaf shape that is an elongated circle.
http://www.cnr.uidaho.edu/what-is-range ... ossary.doc [Score 7-2]

much longer than broad, with nearly parallel sides.
http://www.life.illinois.edu/moss-guide ... ssary.html [Score 8-2]

Object with round ends and parallel margins, three times longer than wide.
botany.csdl.tamu.edu/FLORA/taes/tracy/610/glossO.html [Score 9-2]

Broadest at the middle, and tapering at both ends, but broader than elliptic.
http://www.bio.brandeis.edu/fieldbio/Aq ... ssary.html [Score 9-3]

elliptical, blunt at each end, and being two to four times longer than broad
http://www.marinebiodiversity.ca/BayOfF ... ossMA.html [Score 9-4]

Elongate in form with sides parallel or nearly so, the ends more or less blunted and not tapering
http://www.centenary.edu/arboretum2/mai ... onary.html [Score 10-4]
___________________________________________________

I don'think that would deserve a rematch, even if there was a second game on home turf for Elliptical United.
The use of 'oblong' to mean like an ellipse is botanical jargon.

So, if you are discussing leaves, use 'oblong' for like an ellipse.
But when it's craters, oblong means 'squarish ', WHICH THESE ARE NOT!

John

[bystander]

There's a tendancy to believe that the OED is the final arbiter, but English usage is a moving target and the OED doesn't always manage to keep up.

If OED is the definitive answer and the final arbiter on the English language, most Yanks don't speak proper English anyway, nor can we spell correctly (colour, centre, recognise, etc.). We'll not go into what language Okies speak.

Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary of the English Language

1. ob·long
2. US: longer in one direction than in the other direction ▪ an oblong [=oval] loop
3. chiefly Brit: having four straight sides that meet at right angles and having two opposite sides that are short and two opposite sides that are long ▪ an oblong [=rectangular] block of wood

BTW: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary, though now owned by Encyclopædia Britannica, is descended from Noah Webster’s An American Dictionary of the English Language and is still the preferred authority on this side of the big pond (often cited as "according to Webster's").

[rstevenson]

Clearly, John, you want to devote more time to this than I do. So you win.

Rob (wondering what the topic of this thread was)

[JohnD]

No, rob, it took the merest Google for "Oblong definition", and a single cut and paste.
You try it.

Funny, isn't it, someone loses an argument (and I'll happily concede that this may be one of those due to us being unified by our different languages) by saying that they are bored now, and have better things to do.

John

[Beyond]

And to think that i started all this commotion by looking at the picture that JohnD posted in the APOD.
I went back and looked at it again and to me, the two big craters both look out-of-round. The right hand big ones out-of-roundness, to me, is pointing to the rays of the second big out-of-round crater, that seems to me, to be 90 degrees off the direction of the first big craters out-of roundness centerline going through the longness of it.
The medium size craters still look out-of-round to me, but the smaller craters look round, except for a rectangular one. And of course theres the somewhat egg-shaped one in the whiteness at the end of the rays.
So how come I'm seeing the craters these different ways if they are supposed to be round? Even if the picture has an angle to it, that wouldn't explain their out-of-roundness pointing in different directions.
I guess I'll end my part of this by posting JohnD's picture here one last time so anyone can compare what i said to the picture and see if they see the same as i do.

---

http://www.astronet.ru:8104/db/varstars/msg/1200372
well, reposting the picture didn't work, so i QUIT

[rstevenson]

Funny, isn't it, someone loses an argument (and I'll happily concede that this may be one of those due to us being unified by our different languages) by saying that they are bored now, and have better things to do.

Hi John,

I'm a little surprsied at how you've been reduced to being rude in order to get the last word on the topic. I was just interested in the definition (which remains ambiguous) of oblong. No rudeness required -- just a discussion.

By the way, I don't recall saying I was bored or that I had better things to do. It's so easy to think you've won an argument (if it was one) when you make up both sides of it.

Rob

[bystander]

okay, that's enough! topic locked.

[owlice]

Before playing the game, one needs to decide on a common set of rules.

Beyond's usage of "oblong" is perfectly acceptable on this side of the pond; perhaps botanists flocking to the New World made it so. (Interestingly enough [for me, anyway <g>], there are cases where particular US English holds more closely to English as spoken in England several hundred years ago than English in England does. I am not postulating that that is the case here; I'm just pointing out that that has happened.)

[owlice]

Oh, sure, spoil the fun!