APOD: Red Snow Moon over Edmonton (2011 Feb 28)

APOD Robot · Post by **APOD Robot** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:06 am

Red Snow Moon over Edmonton

Explanation: What's hovering between those buildings? The Moon. The above image was taken two weeks ago as the full Snow Moon started to rise above Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. The odd coincidence between the angular size of the far distant Moon and the angular width of nearby buildings created a striking juxtaposition. Backing away from the buildings so to reduce their angular size was a key to planning the image. The temperature was so low, -25 C, that plumes of steam rose from neighboring oil refineries. The above image was taken during a momentary break in the plumes. The rising Moon appears red here for the same reason that a setting Sun appears red -- because blue light is preferentially scattered away by intervening air. In this case, the shimmering steam plumes likely also caused the Moon to appear slightly compressed. The next full moon, the full Worm Moon, will occur in mid-March.

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Chris Peterson · Post by **Chris Peterson** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:44 am

I'm skeptical that the compressed Moon had anything to do with the steam plumes. I can't think of any optical reason that the steam would produce such an effect. However, we are clearly seeing a Moon just a couple of degrees above the horizon, meaning that ordinary atmospheric refraction is the likely explanation.

I'm not sure if the caption is suggesting that the steam contributes to the red appearance of the Moon, but I doubt that it does.

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:54 am

Elements of meteorology with questions for examination By John Brocklesby wrote:
<<A very remarkable rain fell at Locarno, in Switzerland, on the 14th of October, 1755. A warm Sirocco wind was here blowing at 8 o'clock on the morning of this day, and two hours afterwards the air was filled with a red mist. At 4 o'clock in the afternoon a Mood-rain descended, which left on the ground a reddish deposit. Nine inches of this colored rain fell, in the course of one night, over a region forty square German leagues in extent. It even reached Suabia, on the northern side of the Alps; while amid the cold heights of these lofty mountains it changed into a reddish snow, which fell to the depth of nine feet.

On the 5th and 6th of March, 1808, red snow fell for the space of three nights in Carniola, a province of Germany, and throughout Carnia, Cadore, Belluno, and Feltri, to the depth of five feet and ten inches. The earth had been previously covered with white snow, and the storm of colored snow was succeeded by another, the flakes of which were as usual, of a pure and brilliant white. The two kinds were perfectly distinct. When a portion of the red snow was melted in a vessel, and the water evaporated, a fine rose-colored, earthy sediment remained at the bottom. Red snow, likewise, fell at this time on the mountains of the Valtelline, in Switzerland, at Brescia, and on the Tyrol.

On the 15th of April, 1816, colored snow fell in Italy, upon Tonal, and on other mountains. It was of a brick-red hue, and, when melted and evaporated, a light and impalpable earthy powder remained.>>

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:30 am

Chris Peterson wrote:
I'm skeptical that the compressed Moon had anything to do with the steam plumes.

However, we are clearly seeing a Moon just a couple of degrees above the horizon,
meaning that ordinary atmospheric refraction is the likely explanation.

A nightime cold -25ºC temperature inversion at the surface is
more than enough of an explanation for the STOOPING of the Moon.

[FW 18.18] Jute.-- Oye am thonthorstrok, thing mud.
(STOOP) if you are abcedminded, to this claybook, what curios
of signs (please STOOP), in this allaphbed! Can you rede
(since We and Thou had it out already) its world? It is the
same told of all. Many. Miscegenations on miscegenations.
Tieckle. They lived und laughed ant loved end left. Forsin.

[FW 19.10] What a mnice old mness it all mnakes!
A middenhide hoard of objects! Olives, beets, kimmells,
dollies, alfrids, beatties, cormacks and daltons.
Owlets' eegs (O STOOP to please!) are here,

[FW 238.30] The mything smile of me, my wholesole assumption, shes
nowt mewithout as weam twin herewithin, that I love like myselfish,
like smithereens robinsongs, like juneses nutslost, like the blue
of the sky if I STOOP for to spy's between my whiteyoumightcallimbs.

[FW 361.3] Wins won is nought, twigs too is nil,
tricks trees makes nix, fairs fears STOOPS at nothing.
And till Arthur comes againus

steve_lee · Post by **steve_lee** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:43 am

Am I the only one to see a freaking 'Blade Runner' scene here?

Indigo_Sunrise · Post by **Indigo_Sunrise** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:33 am

Chris Peterson wrote:I'm skeptical that the compressed Moon had anything to do with the steam plumes. I can't think of any optical reason that the steam would produce such an effect. However, we are clearly seeing a Moon just a couple of degrees above the horizon, meaning that ordinary atmospheric refraction is the likely explanation.

I'm not sure if the caption is suggesting that the steam contributes to the red appearance of the Moon, but I doubt that it does.

I am by no means a professional photographer, astro- or otherwise, but even I agree that Chris' explanation is more reasonable.

Interesting image, also.

EeryOwl · Post by **EeryOwl** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:32 pm

Apocalypse Picture of the Day

owlice · Post by **owlice** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:40 pm

I found prey amongst the links!

(Made me laugh, that!)

NoelC · Post by **NoelC** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:33 pm

It's a great photo, but an image like this depresses me... Mainly because of all the light pollution from the city.

There's restorative magic in being able to see the stars brightly, in allowing one's eyes to become their most sensitive and seeing deeply into the night sky...

The Bortle scale at level 9 used to define places like "Inner-city sky"with terms like "People usually don't even look up".

THAT is a shame.

-Noel

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:00 pm

The original Leduc No. 1 oil well, now a
monument just south & west of the city

NoelC wrote:
It's a great photo, but an image like this depresses me...
Mainly because of all the light pollution from the city.

Only the LIGHT pollution?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonton wrote:
<<The first inhabitants settled in the area that is now Edmonton around 3,000 BC and perhaps as early as 12,000 BC, when an ice-free corridor opened up as the last ice age ended and timber, water, and wildlife became available in the region. In 1754, Anthony Henday, an explorer working for the Hudson's Bay Company, may have been the first European to enter the Edmonton area. His expeditions across the Canadian Prairies were mainly to seek contact with the aboriginal population for the purpose of establishing the fur trade, as competition was fierce between the Hudson's Bay Company and the North West Company.

Edmonton traditionally has been a hub for Albertan petrochemical industries, earning it the nickname "Oil Capital of Canada" in the 1940s.[75] Supply and service industries drive the energy extraction engine, while research develops new technologies and supports expanded value-added processing of Alberta's massive oil, gas, and oil sands reserves. These are reported to be the second-largest in the world, after Saudi Arabia.>>

D. Dillberg · Post by **D. Dillberg** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:14 pm

Being in the middle of the Pacific Ocean in Hawaii away from most pollution I can see clear sun and moon rises, sometimes. One diameter of each from the horizon will produce a distorted view. As for the color it is supposed to be clear. It use to be clear most of the time. Now there is so much pollution in the air world wide the color is red or brown most of the time. Sometimes it is still clear. It is getting worse every year. I hope it is not too late to save our planet.!!! Aloha.

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:57 pm

owlice wrote:
I found prey amongst the links! (Made me laugh, that!)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:40 pm

The circumstances of the Moon when I took the shot (2011 02 18, 7:12:28 PM MST) were:
Moon Alt 0.5, Az 86.6, 99.8% Illum

--
Luca Vanzella

Chris Peterson wrote:I'm skeptical that the compressed Moon had anything to do with the steam plumes. I can't think of any optical reason that the steam would produce such an effect. However, we are clearly seeing a Moon just a couple of degrees above the horizon, meaning that ordinary atmospheric refraction is the likely explanation.

I'm not sure if the caption is suggesting that the steam contributes to the red appearance of the Moon, but I doubt that it does.

orin stepanek · Post by **orin stepanek** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:05 pm

Anybody notice the kitty having a bad hair day? Must be the pollution!

deepstar · Post by **deepstar** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:49 am

I don't think there are any oil refineries actually in the city of Edmonton. The steam plumes are probably from the water treatment plant or the heating plant for the University or other large buildings.

Beyond · Post by **Beyond** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:00 am

orin stepanek wrote:Anybody notice the kitty having a bad hair day? Must be the pollution!

Yeah, The cats out of the bag! Who wudda thought that the co-Captains of StarShip Asterisk had such a sense of Humor??
Or is it just one of the crew that we haven't met yet??

Ken Hansen · Post by **Ken Hansen** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:24 am

I agree with Deepstar. There are no refineries that close to downtown Edmonton. It is composite of the downtown core super imposed over a picture of what is known locally as refinery row. It is 7km to the neaest of the refineries and I have been in many downtown towers and you cannot see the refineries showing that big as in the photo. To quote South Park, I call 'Shenanigans'.

Ken Hansen · Post by **Ken Hansen** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:40 am

According to http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/a ... =-12&day=1 the moon rose 7:03 pm yet the shot according to the photographer was taken at 7:12pm. I know the moon here doesn't rise very quickly this time of year in this northern latitude.

Re: APOD: Red Snow Moon over Edmonton (2011 Feb 28)
by Guest » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:40 pm

The circumstances of the Moon when I took the shot (2011 02 18, 7:12:28 PM MST) were:
Moon Alt 0.5, Az 86.6, 99.8% Illum

Toni · Post by **Toni** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:08 am

I've lived in Edmonton all my life and there is no way this picture is real. The HSBC building is over 10 stories and refinery row is at a minimum 7 km away from downtown where the HSBC building is located. Can someone do the math on how tall the refinery stacks would have to be to appear almost the same height as the HSBC building from a 7 km distance?

A composite image for sure. Nice artwork, suited for a gallery, but decidedly unfit as science.

rstevenson · Post by **rstevenson** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:38 am

You may be calling foul too soon. He clearly was not in the downtown core when he took the photo. He had to be a fair way to the west of Downtown in order to get that view of the Moon through the towers with a telephoto lens. So the only question is where the refineries are in relation to Downtown. Are they pretty much due East? If so, then I see nothing impossible about the shot.

Rob (who briefly lived in Edmonton many Moons ago)

Ken Hansen · Post by **Ken Hansen** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:06 am

Courtesy of Google Earth 3D Buildings View

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3 ... 77&theater

Chris Peterson · Post by **Chris Peterson** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:49 am

Ken Hansen wrote:Courtesy of Google Earth 3D Buildings View

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3 ... 77&theater

Got a link to somewhere that doesn't require a login?

jman · Post by **jman** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:04 am

NoelC wrote:Mainly because of all the light pollution from the city.

that's 20% fewer calories than regular pollution

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:48 am

rstevenson wrote:
You may be calling foul too soon. He clearly was not in the downtown core when he took the photo. He had to be a fair way to the west of Downtown in order to get that view of the Moon through the towers with a telephoto lens. So the only question is where the refineries are in relation to Downtown. Are they pretty much due East? If so, then I see nothing impossible about the shot.

Rob (who briefly lived in Edmonton many Moons ago)

H = smoke stack height ~ width of the moon = 0.5º

Ergo: photographer is west of the smoke stack by H/[tan(0.5º)] ~ 115 H

If H ~ 100 m. then : photographer is west of the smoke stack by ~ 11.5 km.
or photographer is west of the bldgs by ~ 4.5 km.

It all sounds pretty reasonable to me.

jman · Post by **jman** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:05 am

Ken Hansen wrote:Courtesy of Google Earth 3D Buildings View

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3 ... 77&theater

The facebook view is flawed: The refinery structures are missing because they're not mapped in the 3rd dimension.
This opposing view presents a better angle:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/canadagood ... 5/sizes/l/

neufer wrote:It all sounds pretty reasonable to me.

agreed