Information paradox
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Information paradox
Information paradox
Easy, something comes from nothing, it should go back to nothing. Where is, the ''universe's'' nothing?
Professor Stephan hawking, has argued for thirty years that matter inside a black hole just disappears?
Why did he change his mind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF63fxXMKTM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole ... on_paradox
Mind blowing.
Mark
Easy, something comes from nothing, it should go back to nothing. Where is, the ''universe's'' nothing?
Professor Stephan hawking, has argued for thirty years that matter inside a black hole just disappears?
Why did he change his mind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF63fxXMKTM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole ... on_paradox
Mind blowing.
Mark
Always trying to find the answers
- Chris Peterson
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Re: Information paradox
That's not quite what he has argued. AFAIK, pretty much everybody agrees that when matter crosses into a black hole, it "disappears" in the sense that it is not recoverable. It doesn't really disappear, since some of its fundamental properties- mass, magnetic field, electrical field, angular momentum- are conserved in the black hole's properties.mark swain wrote:Professor Stephan hawking, has argued for thirty years that matter inside a black hole just disappears?
He didn't change his mind about mass "disappearing". The issue is about what happens to the full quantum state description of matter that crosses into a black hole. QM argues that this state must be conserved, but simple black hole models don't allow for any mechanism to ever recover this information. Hawking originally stated that the information isn't conserved, but changed his mind about that.Why did he change his mind?
In reality, calling this a "paradox" is a little inaccurate. The fact is, we have no well developed theory about what happens to material inside a black hole, so while the information problem is an interesting one, it doesn't rise to the level of "paradox".
Chris
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Re: Information paradox
Oh, right. When I watched the horizon program, the thing that through me was the part where the top scientists on black holes, said " when you fall into a black hole, you would not experience anything substantially like what the person watching you fall in would describe". I can not imagine what it would be like, to be dead and alive at the same time.Chris Peterson wrote:In reality, calling this a "paradox" is a little inaccurate. The fact is, we have no well developed theory about what happens to material inside a black hole, so while the information problem is an interesting one, it doesn't rise to the level of "paradox".
Did you watch the horizon program I posted?Chris Peterson wrote:That's not quite what he has argued.mark swain wrote:Professor Stephan hawking, has argued for thirty years that matter inside a black hole just disappears?
So I guess he changed his mind then. Bit of a big jump huh. Isn't the conservation of information one of the fundamental rules?Chris Peterson wrote:He didn't change his mind about mass "disappearing". The issue is about what happens to the full quantum state description of matter that crosses into a black hole. QM argues that this state must be conserved, but simple black hole models don't allow for any mechanism to ever recover this information. Hawking originally stated that the information isn't conserved, but changed his mind about that.mark swain wrote:Why did he change his mind?
Mark
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Re: Information paradox
Well, it isn't at the same time. It's just that the flow of time as you perceive it while falling into the black hole is different from the flow of time as seen by an outside observer. It's similar to the different time flows experienced by observers traveling at different velocities with respect to each other. This is well supported by experiment, but that doesn't necessarily make it easier to grasp intuitively.mark swain wrote:Oh, right. When I watched the horizon program, the thing that through me was the part where the top scientists on black holes, said " when you fall into a black hole, you would not experience anything substantially like what the person watching you fall in would describe". I can not imagine what it would be like, to be dead and alive at the same time.
What's "fundamental"? It isn't as well supported as conservation of energy. But it seems to be an important property predicted by QM, which is why, I think, Hawking finally changed his mind about the matter.So I guess he changed his mind then. Bit of a big jump huh. Isn't the conservation of information one of the fundamental rules?
Chris
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Re: Information paradox
Chris Peterson wrote:That's not quite what he has argued. AFAIK, pretty much everybody agrees that when matter crosses into a black hole, it "disappears" in the sense that it is not recoverable. It doesn't really disappear, since some of its fundamental properties- mass, magnetic field, electrical field, angular momentum- are conserved in the black hole's properties.mark swain wrote:Professor Stephan hawking, has argued for thirty years that matter inside a black hole just disappears?
He didn't change his mind about mass "disappearing". The issue is about what happens to the full quantum state description of matter that crosses into a black hole. QM argues that this state must be conserved, but simple black hole models don't allow for any mechanism to ever recover this information. Hawking originally stated that the information isn't conserved, but changed his mind about that.Why did he change his mind?
In reality, calling this a "paradox" is a little inaccurate. The fact is, we have no well developed theory about what happens to material inside a black hole, so while the information problem is an interesting one, it doesn't rise to the level of "paradox".
Why it turns into a white hole and creates a new universe of course.... . Black holes are recycling centres, taking mass and creating new universes with it via wormholes.
Paul
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark" Muhammad Ali, faster than the speed of light?
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Re: Information paradox
I believe I'll reserve judgment on that idea, for the time being.wonderboy wrote:Why it turns into a white hole and creates a new universe of course.... :P. Black holes are recycling centres, taking mass and creating new universes with it via wormholes.
Chris
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Re: Information paradox
Ahh, so you are not discounting it out of hand, hmm.Chris Peterson wrote:I believe I'll reserve judgment on that idea, for the time being.wonderboy wrote:Why it turns into a white hole and creates a new universe of course.... . Black holes are recycling centres, taking mass and creating new universes with it via wormholes.
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Re: Information paradox
I only discount ideas once they are proven wrong. The whole issue of white holes I consider nearly non-scientific, because it is so speculative, and nobody has developed anything that comes close to rising to the level of testable theory. This is just playing around with math; it isn't really physics.bystander wrote:Ahh, so you are not discounting it out of hand, hmm.
I think green holes inhabited by unicorns are about as likely, but I don't know they don't exist, either <g>.
Chris
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Re: Information paradox
green holes ... they would be the ones at the other end of the red holes ...