Sputnik Beeps Again

Bawper · Post by **Bawper** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:42 pm

What kind of science forum would ban the IP (not this one) of the Public Library system of a city of over 1,000,000 people which has three major universities (one of them a research university) plus a huge Community College, plus the National Research Council, plus that city's electronic industry a major developer of new information technology?

Bop Bop Bop ... Bawwwwp Bawwwp Bawwwp ... Bop Bop Bop
Someone please help apod over its case of Moderator Dysfunction.

(and God help APOD when I win the lottery and I get my wireless laptop)

makc · Post by **makc** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:53 pm

what is the IP in question?

Bawper · Post by **Bawper** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:55 pm

bystander wrote:
unohu wrote:At least Sputnick is not afraid
Yes, I do know who!

Now cracks a noble heart. Good-night, sweet prince;
And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.

Horatio, scene ii

The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark

William Shakespeare

I thank thee with blithedness noble Bystander.

Bawper · Post by **Bawper** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:58 pm

makc wrote:what is the IP in question?

I don't know, but if you'll leave this IP open long enough I'll try to get it and send it to you. It's one of the three blocked in the past couple months. the other two are convenience stores.

makc · Post by **makc** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:10 pm

let's put it this way: the blood of banned public library IP is not on moderator hands, but on hands of person abusing that IP and failing to come to terms with this forum regulations. which is you. you will, of course, be banned again soon, but we may unban this IP in the future, so hurry up and PM it to me while you still can

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:51 pm

Bawper wrote:I thank thee with blithedness noble Bystander.

But if thou meanest not well, I do beseech thee ...
To cease thy strife, and leave me to my grief ...
A thousand times good night! ...
Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow ...
- Juliet - Romeo And Juliet Act 2, scene 2
  William Shakespeare

rstevenson · Post by **rstevenson** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:28 pm

mark swain wrote:... topics that will never be discussed thanks to sputnik. ...

Truer words were never spoked.

Rob

apodman · Post by **apodman** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:16 am

Not being spoked seems like a good deal to me.

nextup · Post by **nextup** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:09 pm

Is RJN also a robot? If not, why can't we PM him or her? I guess this post will be deleted forthwith .. but I will try again.

From: bob__mosurinjohn@hotmail.com
Subject: Making APOD forum more interesting
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:58:48 -0500

I have been an apod forum poster for four or five years, for long periods sometimes posting every day, and have watched the forum degenerate badly in that time, with the bulk of Apod forum traffic now generated by three or four regular posters including moderators, as evidenced in your thread requesting how to make the forum more interesting.
I understand Nereid has been replaced as head moderator by Geckzilla, and while I thought that a change in head moderator might make for positive change, I have had a report from another long-time user that Geckzilla is an unfavourable personality because of insults, which at least Nereid never stooped to, and that brings us to the great problem with the fourm, not a problem of format in any degree, but that forum traffic other than consensus-oriented is plainly'demonized', with consensus-dissenters often attacked with insults, on rare occasions those insults bordering on or outright libel/slander. I am totally convinced that the insults and strong intolerance of non-consensus views accounts for the huge loss of interest in the forum, and I state plainly that moderators must carry that responsibility as no effort appears to be made to correct those making insults, and with moderators occasionally joining in with insults of their own. For instance, I have seen a moderator tell an Electrical Engineer that his expertise was not science; and another moderator badly malign a leading theorist who has not ever appeared on the forum, but who is recognized world wide and working at one of the most advanced labs in the world. This occured simply because the moderator strongly disagrees with Modified Gravity theory. My considerable reading has shown me that scientists who are internationally recognized as important people are generally temperate in their views, saying things like, 'while this theory has yet to be proven it deserves more consideration ...' Whereas on apod, the consensus statement response to innovation is, 'your theory is not Big Bang so is therefore not science.'
Topics are banned because a moderator decides the topic is ‘unscientific’, with participant Christ Peterson, an amateur astronomer, often telling forum posters (no matter how well qualified or how well read) that “you don’t understand what science is.” Chris never seems to be chastised for his many insults, and Nereid seems to have the same opinion as Chris, having declared, for instance, Plasma Cosmology "unscientific" and not to be discussed, which is strange, as Plasma Cosmology was at one time the leading contender for how the universe was and is being created. Moderator prejudices are so strong that I have little hope for the forum unless moderators step aside and let the forum be self-governing. I have seen no hate rants, racism, or other serious abuses other than the insults on the forum, and it is obvious forum participants are generally intelligent-minded people who can govern themselves, while moderators seem unable to achieve either moderation or self-moderation. Two topics I opened, ‘Black Stars Not Black Holes’ was removed despite being foundationed on an article in Scientific American, and also removed was my topic on the new Attosecond photography developed by Canada’s National Research Laboratory in partnership with Ottawa University, “a completely new field of photonics.” The absence or revamping of regulators on the forum is the major change needed to enable genuine exchanges of opinion and knowledge.
Religion is another issue. Despite Einstein and Hawking (as well as other professional scientists) publicly stating their faith in God as it relates to their science, and with Creationism recognized as a science in its own right by many recognized scientists, any mention on the forum of 'religion' is not tolerated, and I have been banned for saying as little as “the alpha and omega was published a long time ago” in response to someone saying ‘it would be nice if we knew everything.’ The forum needs to accept that for many scientists both professional and amateur, a Creator is a reality, and for them most questions will remain unanswered without discussion including the role of the Creator. Of course I see the dangers in 'denominational proselytizing', and have warned against such on the forum at a time when the topic of whether religion should be discussed was active. Despite moderator intolerance of Creationist Science, the Big Bang Religion is preached daily from the Consensus Pulpit.
You will undoubtedly be told I am merely a troll, but that is not true in any way. I am 62 years old, and a person who avoids trouble in life, and if you search my name bob mosurinjohn or robert mosurinjohn on Google you will find my sense of responsible behaviour evidenced many times; but I grew tired of abuse and infringement on freedom of speech and opinion on the forum, and that, combined with my not being a Consensus person, makes me a troll according to a couple of the moderators, with ‘Troll’ being an accusation hurled at posters other than myself who disagree with consensus view. For a long time I viewed moderators' failings as human nature, and even humourous, but I now see the reality, that they are severe hindrances to the success of the forum, with lack of participants in the forum being the clear proof that I need to confirm my judgement. My responses to abuse after a considerable time led me to some insistance of my rights, and for that the Public Library of the City of Ottawa's (Canada) IP address was banned, blocking thousands of students access to the forum. Ottawa has two major universities, a few private universities, a community college, hosts Canada's National Research Laboratory, and is one of the two major hi-tech research and manufacturing cities in Canada. When I made those facts public on the forum, I was asked for the IP address, probably so the block could be lifted, but I declined to provide it, as I have actually come seriously to believe the banning as a positive influence for young science-oriented minds, as they will not be exposed to the abuse and rigid mindedness promoted so heavily on the forum.
Thanks for asking for input as to how to make the forum better, as the forum has been a valuable interest for me despite its problems. Perhaps the most value the forum had for me was providing the necessity to read huge amounts over one winter, that reading necessary to disprove the mindset and information promoted on the forum. Despite my views on the proceedings of the forum, I have considerable regard for the moderators and participants, even Chris Peterson, for the knowledge they have and their willingness to share .. but especially as their stimulation led me to be forced to investigate and to truly think scientifically for myself.
I will be banned again before you can read this post, so I am sending you this PM, which you probably won’t be able to respond to with a personal message on the forum because I will almost certainly have been removed, but my email address is bob__mosurinjohn@hotmail.com

P.S. Einstein said, "Immagination is more important than knowledge." So what really is Science?

rstevenson · Post by **rstevenson** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:04 pm

If I may offer up a counter view to the above post...

Although I am almost the same age as you Bob, I am a neophyte when it comes to astronomy, finally scratching a life-long itch. As such, I came here to this forum in particular because of its link from APOD images, expecting to find -- and yes, preferring to find -- the consensus view. At this stage in my learning, anything else is just confusing.

I am very glad that the forum bans religious discussion. Faith and evidence are irrelevant to each other, and this forum discusses evidence. That it does so in light of the consensus view point is a good thing. Anything else is like stepping off a precipice, and the fall would be a long one.

There are forums for discussing bleeding-edge science, and even for discussing what is referred to here as pseudo-science. But this forum is not, as we've all been told, one of those forums. I completely fail to understand why that bothers you. Why not just attend those other forums and discuss whatever you want there?

I am quite happy that this forum is what it is. If it didn't exist I'd have to find something very like it. It may not always satisfy me, but it does so far. If it doesn't satisfy you, why linger?

Rob

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:25 pm

nextup wrote:From: bob__mosurinjohn@hotmail.com
Subject: Making APOD forum more interesting
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:58:48 -0500

Sputnick

You were banned because of your continuous disregard for the rules of this forum. When allowed to resume posting under another ID, you again proved that you could not abide by the rules of this forum. Since then, even though you have been repeatedly banned, you attempt in any way you can to gain access to this forum, including some that might be construed as fraud. Any banning of IP addresses, Ottawa Public Library, et al, was because you couldn't abide by the decisions of the moderators of this forum, that is, Your disruptive influence is not wanted here, and not just by the moderators, but many of the regular contributors, as well. Please respect the wishes of this forum.

apodman · Post by **apodman** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:52 pm

Amen.

geckzilla · Post by **geckzilla** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:59 pm

APOD Robot is not RJN. The reason you cannot PM him is because he will not respond. Real people do not login to his account. He really is a robot. If you want to PM RJN you will have to PM RJN.

apodman · Post by **apodman** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:30 pm

geckzilla wrote:If you want to PM RJN you will have to PM RJN.

Sputnick is the only one who thinks it can't be done, but then Sputnick still has a lot of facts wrong.

I'm sorry if my flippant notice of the introduction of the APOD Robot and my pretending to address the APOD Robot as a self-aware intelligence confused anybody. For the record, I do know that the APOD Robot is a software entity (with a little help from humans, tape, and chewing gum at the beginning, I expect) with neither flesh nor metal to show for itself.

nextup · Post by **nextup** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:04 pm

bystander wrote:
nextup wrote:From: bob__mosurinjohn@hotmail.com
Subject: Making APOD forum more interesting
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:58:48 -0500
Sputnick

You were banned because of your continuous disregard for the rules of this forum. When allowed to resume posting under another ID, you again proved that you could not abide by the rules of this forum. Since then, even though you have been repeatedly banned, you attempt in any way you can to gain access to this forum, including some that might be construed as fraud. Any banning of IP addresses, Ottawa Public Library, et al, was because you couldn't abide by the decisions of the moderators of this forum, that is, Your disruptive influence is not wanted here, and not just by the moderators, but many of the regular contributors, as well. Please respect the wishes of this forum.

Of course I totally disagree, Bystander, and my letter to RJN neglects the political favouritism of the moderators, they seeming to be be rightwing profiteers, while I a lowly, slightly-to-the-left socialist, my easy social views bringing anger upon me especially once the U.S. entered it's current phase of financial bankruptcy. This is not fancy, but fact, and I will abstain from commenting on whether the U.S. is morally bankrupt as well or not. Another reason I was banned was because, in efforts to stimulate U.S. interest in science, I upheld the Russian and Canadian supremacies, providing examples. Rules? Rules were not a consideration in my bannishment .. personal grudes were. If rule violation were factors moderators and Chris Peterson especially would have been banned many times, but not once was Chris chastised for his insults, and moderators had free reign to insult at will. Hypocriscy! Of course, that will be seen as a Religious Rant and used as evidence in pleading my case for banishment. I was also banned because I provided scientific evidence for my views of what science should be, evidence like Einstein's quote concerning immagination, that quote proving dead in the water Peterson's view of what science is, and also Nereids, bless her soul for the lovely person she seems otherwise to be. Part of the problem on the forum also seems to be that people who should know how to read apparently being unable, or to stop reading at a point in the post suitable for their prejudices: for instance, someone said that I said RJN and the Robot are the same entity. I did not say that, I asked the question as to their identities, whether they were the same. And the fact that a PM to somone like RJN who seems interested in stimulating the forum shows either a lack of regard for sought opinion, or a naive trust of the status quo. I am greatly surprised my post rides. However, perhaps I should not be, as RJN, I am assuming now, would have been notified of my response to his post. Is that the reason my post rides? Forgive my dissillusionment with people I have affection for, Bystander, but as a result of someone's hasty misreading it is said again that I do not know what I am talking about, that I did not check the facts before posting .. a favourite tirade. My time is up on this public computer .. I hope the forum can be established as a science forum run by intelligent-minded people.

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:21 pm

These posts are a case in point. This is a scientific forum not a place for your political or social commentaries. Nor is it the place to air your conspiracy theories or pet fantasies. GO AWAY, we don't want you here. RIP.

I don't understand it, if you hate this forum so much, why do you keep coming back.

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:12 pm

bystander wrote:(SNIP) RIP.

I don't understand it, if you hate this forum so much, why do you keep coming back.

Likely it is to PO everyone but the "O" stands for ON

geckzilla · Post by **geckzilla** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:59 pm

By the way, another thing I forgot completely about. The "newly registered users" group is unable to send PMs. Any user capable of making it to 10 posts without getting banned will be able to use the full forum features. This was never meant to be a tactic to use against people like sputnick but rather to prevent spam. I have administrated forums before and had spammers sign up and PM as many people form the member list as they could with spam before so I thought it might be a good strategy.

apodman · Post by **apodman** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:31 pm

geckzilla wrote:Any user capable of making it to 10 posts without getting banned ...

Sounds like an event in a Monty Python "twit" contest. Or the final exam that you pass if you can sit at a terminal for 30 minutes without spilling a soda over the keyboard.

makc · Post by **makc** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:46 am

apodman wrote:Sounds like an event in a Monty Python "twit" contest.

You mean...

Click to play embedded YouTube video.

..this?

makc · Post by **makc** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:48 am

bystander wrote:...why do you keep coming back.

same reason as we all: nothing better to do.

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:06 am

Sputnik was just an old new idea.

makc · Post by **makc** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:46 pm

The requested user does not exist. Not a nice way to handle those accounts, now you can't look up their posts other than via google no wait, you can.

Beyond · Post by **Beyond** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:01 am

apodman wrote:
geckzilla wrote:If you want to PM RJN you will have to PM RJN.
Sputnick is the only one who thinks it can't be done, but then Sputnick still has a lot of facts wrong.

I'm sorry if my flippant notice of the introduction of the APOD Robot and my pretending to address the APOD Robot as a self-aware intelligence confused anybody. For the record, I do know that the APOD Robot is a software entity (with a little help from humans, tape, and chewing gum at the beginning, I expect) with neither flesh nor metal to show for itself.

HHmmm.......Tape - chewing gum? Looks like somebody(s) exercised a lot of "faith" about an "entity" that can't be seen.

Ann · Post by **Ann** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:26 am

I'm not absolutely sure I got the point of this discussion, but I was inspired to search for a Sputnik-related video. I'm sure this one must have been posted here at Starship Asterisk before, John Glenn and all, but even so, I'll post it now all over again.

Say what you will, Sputnik was an amazing achievement when it happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHaJDuq6tBM

Ann

Starship Asterisk*

Sputnik Beeps Again

Bawper Bops Again

Re: Bawper Bops Again

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again

Re: Bawper Bops Again

Re: Bawper Bops Again

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again

Sputnik Beeps Again

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again

How can The Asterisk be improved?

Re: How can The Asterisk be improved?

Re: How can The Asterisk be improved?

Re: How can The Asterisk be improved?

Re: How can The Asterisk be improved?

Re: How can The Asterisk be improved?

Re: How can The Asterisk be improved?

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again

Re: How can The Asterisk be improved?

Re: Sputnik Beeps Again