Carina Pillar and Jets, 2009 October 1

rndkrieg · Post by **rndkrieg** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:34 am

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap091001.html

Nice pair of pictures. APOD is always enlightening and informative!

Near the left edge of the photo, just below center (from top to bottom), there is a star that is VERY bright in infrared (one of the brightest in the image) but barely discernible in the visible light version. Unlike the stars in the nebula, it does not appear to be obscured by dust and gas. Can anyone tell me what is going on with that star?

David

sgwmunro · Post by **sgwmunro** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:32 am

Yes please, someone , what is going on with that source?

splait · Post by **splait** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:16 am

The text says there are two jets, but I think I see a third moving almost 180 degrees from Hubble. Does anyone else see that, and is that what it is?

AlejoHausner · Post by **AlejoHausner** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:38 pm

It looks like the two jets are radially symmetric, but not collinear. Maybe the jet axis is precessing. If so, the rest of the nebula, composed of matter ejected by the star, has been sprayed out from the star, just like a rotating water sprinkler, and should also be radially symmetric. Has anyone looked into reconstructing the hidden side of the nebula based on this assumption? Are there ways to do that?

Alejo

ARMistice · Post by **ARMistice** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:45 pm

I've found a few anomilies when mousing over the image. The circled areas have objects moving (line points to the object). They are clearly visible in both images so I don't believe that they're separate objects, but depending on the distance, they'd have to be traveling very fast (depending on the time between each image was taken, as well as distance from Earth)

Any ideas?

canuck100 · Post by **canuck100** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:55 pm

There is a zoomable version of the visible light image at http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archiv ... rmat/zoom/ which may be of interest.

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:00 pm

http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00002090/ wrote:
Blink comparison of visible and infrared Hubble images of Carina nebula

Credit: NASA, ESA, and the Hubble SM4 ERO Team / blink gif by Emily Lakdawalla

<<The image of the colorful pillar, which was taken in visible light wavelengths, shows the tip of a 3-light-year-long structure of gas and dust located 7,500 light years away. The pillar is shaped both from outside -- stellar wind from giant nearby stars (out of the frame) punch into it, compressing it -- and from inside -- as the compression of the gas has produced new stars within it. The new stars are mostly invisible in the visible-light image. But in infrared wavelengths (a new capability for the wide-field camera on Hubble) the dust is transparent, and the baby stars are revealed. One of them, at the center of the frame, spouts two impressive jets. Data for the two images were taken by Hubble's newly installed WFC3 on July 24-30, 2009.>>

Chris Peterson · Post by **Chris Peterson** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:15 pm

AlejoHausner wrote:It looks like the two jets are radially symmetric, but not collinear. Maybe the jet axis is precessing. If so, the rest of the nebula, composed of matter ejected by the star, has been sprayed out from the star, just like a rotating water sprinkler, and should also be radially symmetric. Has anyone looked into reconstructing the hidden side of the nebula based on this assumption? Are there ways to do that?

It is very common for jets to look like this- they are perturbed and distorted by their environment, and the object producing them may be precessing. But you have things backwards here: the nebula is not produced from material ejected from the star. The nebula was there first, and the star has very recently formed out of its matter. The jets are just a bit of minor recycling, as material around the new star falls in and is focused outwards.

nventi · Post by **nventi** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:07 am

rndkrieg wrote:Near the left edge of the photo, just below center (from top to bottom), there is a star that is VERY bright in infrared (one of the brightest in the image) but barely discernible in the visible light version. Unlike the stars in the nebula, it does not appear to be obscured by dust and gas. Can anyone tell me what is going on with that star?

I saw the same thing, and I'm wondering the same thing.

NoelC · Post by **NoelC** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:37 am

Imagine a star that's very cool - relatively speaking. Like a glowing dim red ember in a fire, it emits little visible light, but a huge amount of infrared. It could be relatively close to us by comparison to the other stars in the image.

Keep in mind the Hubble exposures were made at different times so another possibility is that it is a variable star, which periodically changes in brightness. Some can change a huge amount! Here, for example is a visible light image taken at two different times and animated as neufer did above to show alternate views every half second... Note how much the brightness of the red star near the bottom has changed.

-Noel

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:30 pm

Wonderful pictures, especially when matched like that.
One of the best APODS, IMHO.

On the jets, is the one to the left associated with the material almost exactly along its line, but a long way further out? If the nebula is two light years across, then the tip of that material is another three light years away. Has the jet been going that long?

John

Chris Peterson · Post by **Chris Peterson** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:25 pm

JohnD wrote:On the jets, is the one to the left associated with the material almost exactly along its line, but a long way further out? If the nebula is two light years across, then the tip of that material is another three light years away. Has the jet been going that long?

It does look like you can see jet material pretty far out on the left. Jets like this frequently eject material at a substantial fraction of the speed of light, so structures several light years long are common. Because the material is moving so fast, you can see the shapes of the jets change over just a few months or years. The jet material seen in this APOD is very young- much less so than the young star that is producing it.

rndkrieg · Post by **rndkrieg** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:19 pm

Just wanted to leave a quick thank-you to Noel for the explanation of the bright infrared star and the great globular cluster blink picture!

David

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:54 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Because the material is moving so fast, you can see the shapes of the jets change over just a few months or years. The jet material seen in this APOD is very young- much less so than the young star that is producing it.

Gosh! So even at ?five light years from the star, the tip of the jet might be only ten-twenty years old?!
Never realised that things so far away could be seen to change that quickly.
Supernovas excepted.

John

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:00 pm

JohnD wrote:On the jets, is the one to the left associated with the material almost exactly along its line, but a long way further out? If the nebula is two light years across, then the tip of that material is another three light years away. Has the jet been going that long?

Chris Peterson wrote:It does look like you can see jet material pretty far out on the left. Jets like this frequently eject material at a substantial fraction of the speed of light, so structures several light years long are common. Because the material is moving so fast, you can see the shapes of the jets change over just a few months or years. The jet material seen in this APOD is very young- much less so than the young star that is producing it.

There seems to be jet remnants on the right side, too, just above center. It is more apparent moving back and forth between visible and IR. I would guess that the right side is directed more towards us than the left side.

ARMistice · Post by **ARMistice** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:43 pm

Anyone happen to have an explanation for the moving objects in my other post?

nventi · Post by **nventi** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:35 pm

Thank you Noel!

Andy Wade · Post by **Andy Wade** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:34 am

ARMistice wrote:I've found a few anomilies when mousing over the image. The circled areas have objects moving (line points to the object). They are clearly visible in both images so I don't believe that they're separate objects, but depending on the distance, they'd have to be traveling very fast (depending on the time between each image was taken, as well as distance from Earth)

Any ideas?

I've looked very closely at the onjects that you're talking about and whilst it does look like there are objects moving, I'm wondering if this just is an example of something bright in visible light but almost invisible in infra red, next to something that exhibits the opposite characteristics, giving the impression of movement when you mouse over the images because they actually blink on and off but appear to move from one position to the other - if you get my meaning.

neufer · Post by **neufer** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:36 am

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap091001.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBZK8nxMO2Q

Starship Asterisk*

Carina Pillar and Jets, 2009 October 1

Carina Pillar and Jets, 2009 October 1

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